To suggest that truck drivers are lacking in brains, and do not know the limits of what they are driving is nonsense.
HGV drivers are actually trained to a high standard compared to the normal car driver, and I would say they maintain that standard over time. Not always of course but then I haven't seen every truck driver in the country. With the stories of trucks changing lanes to overtake etc you have to remember that most people are totally unwilling to let a truck out. If you do flash them out usually you will get a thanks on their indicators. 9/10 the overtake is over fairly quickly. Of course you do get the occasional prolonged one.
It is the pidgeon holing and stereotyping of people from different trades/proffesions/backgrounds that is to the detriment of this country IMHO. Hope everyone will be happy when we all drive regulation grey Honda Civics. They will probably be speed-limited too, so don't go overtaking, now!
James.
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"HGV drivers are actually trained to a high standard compared to the normal car driver, and I would say they maintain that standard over time."
This was true 20 years ago. 120 miles a day on the M25 and numerous other trips tell me that this is well wide of the mark now.
I expect truck drivers to be better - the consequences of them driving badly is too awful for words. Yet every day there are explicit examples of the "s** everyone I'm coming" attitude that clogs lanes and caused others to swerve.
Sorry but if people think that truck driving standards are as good as they used to be - they need to get out amongst it. They are not all continental trucks either, although this influence has not helped.
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"it does make a significant difference in journey time, as the lorry doing 55mph will be 5 miles ahead of the lorry doing 50mph after one hour."
6 minutes?? Problem is that the speed differential is usually about 2 mph (60 - 62 mph)so it only makes a difference of 2 mins saved per hour while holding up others for considerably longer
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This is a fine example of truly selfish driving.
If the lorry driver was aware of the tailback caused they are clearly a bit lacking upstairs, either because they are unaware of the frustration caused or they enjoy causing it.
If they were unaware, then they again are either lacking upstairs or need to use their mirrors more or have the problem explained to them in simple terms.
This cannot happen by accident, I see it all the time.
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Attempting not to indulge in generalisations, but I wonder if the proportion of m/way accidents involving large goods vehicles has increased over the last 15-20 years. It would be interesting to see the statistics.
From my own POV, lorries seem to drive more aggressively than ten years ago and be far less content to rumble along in the inside lane. More than once, on joining m/ways, I've been forced onto the hard shoulder, or to brake heavily, by lorry drivers who refuse to sacrifice any velocity whatsoever, and aggressively close any gap on the vehicle in front. This is hardly a trait restricted to lorry drivers, of course, but given the sheer size of many of their vehicles, it can be potentially very dangerous.
As for lorries overtaking with painful slowness on dual carriageway roads, I believe it's a real problem. Possible solution - 50mph *minimum* limit on NSL roads, and a total ban on HGVs in the outside lane.
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While I must agree that agressive gap closing etc is rude and unhelpful, I'm fed up with folk who expect me to move out, or hit the brakes to let them out. Yes, one does try and help ones fellow motorist, but I've had this happen when the middle lane is full, and there is a very large gap in front and behind me. A little bit of loud or soft pedal and your mothers brother is Robert.
Nealy all the folk who have then does this have then accelerated and gone on to travel faster than me - so why not do it first. The whole purpose of a long slip road is to merge with the traffic - not intimidate it.
A dying concept I think!
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And of course it is the people joining the motorway who are supposed to "Give Way" - or at least that's what the signs say. I sympathise with truck drivers in this respect as I notice it most when towing the caravan on a crowded motorway where one can't move into the middle lane. I don't mind lifting off the throttle for a moment to let people in "alternately" but so many just maintain their speed (why not accelerate or brake slightly to enter the lane smoothly?) and expect you to brake heavily to let them in. Of course, having said that, truck drivers (some of them) are the worst offenders, using their bulk to frighten you into giving way because you can't move over.
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Sorry, didnt read previous post carefully enough - I just repeated the sentiments didn't I?
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"Why do lorries do this?"
I should imagine it's their way of getting back at society for the EU-dictated 90Kph limiters fitted.
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Does anyone feel that these limiters have caused more problems than they solved? Or did they solve ANY problems? And why, if necessary on the big trucks, don't they apply to those 7 tonners(?)that whistle down the outside lane at 90? Why were the limiters brought in?
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Here's a radical proposal:
HGVs (let's say anything 7.5 tonnes and above) could be speed limited to 56mph and also restricted to lane 1 during the hours of 7am to 7pm. As a spin-off of that we might get more goods delivered to supermarkets etc during the evenings and overnight, making use of the spare road capacity available then.
LGVs (Transits, Astra vans, Escort vans et al) could be speed restricted to 70 mph and banned from lane 3 at any time, as HGVs are now.
Let the flaming commence..
My wife says I don't listen to her, or something like that
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Some good suggestions here, if I may add mine? How about de-restrict trucks. Speed limit of 60. Of course the tachograph records speeds and the limiter can be disabled anyway, but the tacho makes this pointless (for legit operators anyway). Perhaps the lack of limiting will prevent the foot-flat-to-the-floor-no-matter-what style overtaking? After all, how many of us could or would overtake a car doing 1 mph slower than us and the speed limit 2 MPH above that?? Especially if we have a spy in the cab at all times? So slow overtaking will not result. Allow trucks to still use the overtaking lane on dual carriageways then trucks can still overtake slow vehicles like cranes etc, where the speed differentral is significant enough to do so.
James.
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On the plus side while they are doing this they are not murdering hitch-hikers are they?
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On the plus side while they are doing this they are not murdering hitch-hikers are they?
Sigh.
I believe that there's an old phrase that starts "If you can't say anything useful..."
I'd live to see statistics to back up your post, Steve. Over to you.
Rob
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>>I'd live to see statistics
You all knew that I meant 'love' don't you???
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What hitch-hikers? Never see any these days, yet in my youth (don't ask when) I must have travelled thousands of miles for free due to truck drivers. Remember the days when you had to queue up at the roundabouts on the A1 to wait your turn to hitch? Never caught the train or bus. And you could even predict when you would arrive which was more than you could via train!Remember the days when the trucker used to stop at a transport cafe and if you only had enough money for a cup of tea he bought you bacon egg and beans? I remember hitchhiking from Paris once having spent all my money except 2/6d (12p?) and I still had the half crown when I got back to Yorkshire! Probably spent it on fish and chips and a packet of fags! (Yes, and 3 pints of bitter and still had change !!!!!)
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Phil,
I picked up a hitch-hiker on my last but one journey up North. He was absolutely flabbergasted as he'd only been stood there two minutes, and I was able to take him within 200 yards of his front door.
Just think of all that lovely karma I've got coming my way!
Cheers
Rob
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I think the EU regs are changing so that all goods vehicles, including transits are going to be limited to 56 mph. The only answer to truck drivers that insist on driving within inches of each other is having automatic systems fitted so they can't. The radar controlled cruise control that mercedes have on their cars would be perfect for this purpose. They will have to leave proper gaps between vehicles so the long winded overtaking manoeuveres couldn't happen as they couldn't get close enough to do it in the first place.
Having the limiters only work during certain hours of the day is a good idea and keeping trucks out of second lanes during rush hours would certainly make a difference. Perhaps the experiment could be tried voluntarily for a month or two and see whether a greater amount of consideration by truck drivers a) reduces congestion and b) does not affect delivery times in a significant way.
teabelly
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Some of the comments on this thread are extremly crass and misinformed.How many of the posters on this thread have ever driven a large vehicle.I do not know what occupations you have but i would not wish to criticise your professional ability.
As to the statement that lorry drivers do not have a lot upstairs, this is so stupid as to hardly warrant a reply, suffice to say i have driven an articulated lorry on and off for a number of years, i attended a grammar school and university.
Having done numerous jobs in my time i would say lorry driving often attracts the free thinkind indivual, as opposed to the office mentality of the yes men and pink fluffy dice agmongst the general population.
What is neded is more understanding and tolerance from all drivers instead of tarring everyone with the same brush.
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I?d agree, and attacking the drivers is a bit pointless and lets remember we all need them, as Tesco et el do not set up shop next to railway sidings. The point made about find just the right engine revs is valid I think. It would seem speed limiters generate the overtaking problem then, and why do they exist? I surmise it is because of the massive weights of modern HGV?s. Allow them to do 80 mph at these weights and watch the super tanker effect as they try and stop in less than one mile.
So the answer (for me at least) is to curb their weight lower than at present and allow more speed. Double benefit, here because they will stop destroying the inside lane. Treble benefit also because the motorway will not require as much maintenance, causing delays and accidents.
There must be some economic argument to the weights of HGV?s and I bet the hauliers have lobbied for it, but the hauliers? profits and public purse are at odds.
(My beef is the M27, forever chewed up and repaired)
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As to the statement that lorry drivers do not have a lot upstairs, this is so stupid as to hardly warrant a reply....
The reference to not having a lot upstairs was meant as not having the ability to see the outcome of their actions and use common sense, and not have the mentality of I am alright Jack. Not as their ability to get good results in their school exams.
chris
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I think the EU regs are changing so that all goods vehicles, including transits are going to be limited to 56 mph.
Spot on there teabelly. Madness of the control freaks!
I posted about this a few months ago when it appeared the UK government was going to oppose this EU plan. Last year UK govt was the only one to vote against a draft directive, 2002/85/EC.
Seems they have now waved the white hanky.
Mandatory 90 km/h limiters will be required on all goods vehicles over 3.5 tonnes gvw Jan 1 2008. The rules should be in place by Jan 1 2005, but UK is delaying the implementation to the last day allowed.
Also applies to passenger vehicles with more than 8 seats.
The rules in terms of its application retrospectively to older vehicles are a bit of a horlicks, to use a "in fashion" term.
There is a consultation document, on dft website tinyurl.com/nyzl
responses by 29 October to Hayley Bowen, policy adviser, LRI 2, Zone 2/05, Great Minster House, 76 Marsham St, London SW1P 4DR fax 020 7944 2459, i have the e mail addy if you want it.
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On the subject of lorries:
1.The German folk-term "elephant racing" describes the overtaking phenomenon. Who said they have no sense of humour??
2.The problem with the EU draft directive is that it mainly applies to existing members. If someone new joins, they will "temporarily" operate lorries without speed limiters
giving an unfair commercial advantage.
3. The Germans have been trying to introduce a new automatic lorry-toll system with a big brother black box in every cab.
This means they can enforce speed limits via the toll system.
Due to technical problems this has been put back to November 1st. Increased costs all round for everything carried by road.
(Other countries have a sticker in the windscreen).
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Encountered this the other day on the A38 between Newton Abbot and Exeter, just before Holden Hill and before the A38 runs into the M5. Just before the hill, there is a rather twisty (Well, twisty for a dual carriageway) section which climbs a hill. Just as we entered the section, at 60mph, a truck lunges out from behind another and begins his overtaking manouvure. Up this twisting hill. We one stage, we were doing 25mph, in the outside lane of a dual carriageway.
Fantastic.
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