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I'm sure there'll be a decent site somewhere telling you what to look for, but is this another case of the purchase price being more like a deposit? Yes, it'll be better made than the equivalent Jag, but this was still a very pricey and complex car when new, and the servicing repair bills might well anticipate its intended owner profile. But then parts can be cheap from Euro Car Parts et al, and if you happen to live near a tame specialist... Seem to remember reading s'thing about the 3 litre engine not being the best of them - is it 24 valve, as 1990 was the changeover year?
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I'd go for it, are you pretty handy at DIY?
It will be one of the last E32, parts are cheap at Eurocarparts and German and Swedish, there will be plenty of more specialist bits at breakers such as BMBitz and FAB.
These cars are fairly easy to work on, as they are big, and everything on a BMW seems to go back how it came off, and nuts don't corrode as much as some makes!
Good luck!
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www.digest.net/bmw/
I used to find the digest helpful, you could search for "E32"
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These cars can be a real money pit. There are plenty of folks who say they'll 'run forever' etc. but personally I don't think that they're that reliable or especially nice to drive. I have fixed quite a few in the past. Here's a run down of likely faults:
1. Banjo bolts in cam spray bar come lose - cam doesn't get oil - lobes wear. Treat any top-end noise with great suspicion. They ALL seem to suffer this unless modified bolts fitted. Head has to be removed to replace cam and followers - £500 parts + labour??
2. Ridiculously small bore venting pipe from radiator to header tank gets blocked. Can lead to air locks and overheating.
3. Viscous cooling fan fails - overheating at low speeds.
4. Lower front control arm bushes wear - best to fit complete new arm.
5. Heater fan control amplifier (known as 'Sword') fails. I have fixed a few of these and its not difficult if you know what you are doing. New unit from BMW is expensive.
6. Climate control ECU packs up. S/hand units go for about £80 - but probably in short supply now.
7. Instrument cluster electrolytic capacitors dry out - again, you can fix for about £5 if you have a bit of electronics experience - 'specialist' will charge £70
8. Electrical wiring is VERY complex - various faults with 'check control unit', body control ECU etc. (there are about 9 ECU's on the car). Diagnosis can be very difficult. I have a full wiring diagram in PDF, should you decide to buy the car.
Be aware that BMW parts supply is not that good on cars of 8 years or older. For example, the door handles have a habit of breaking on this car (which was sold up to 1994) and replacement handles have not been available for a couple of years now!
In my view one of the worst aspects of the car is the ZF 4HP22E electronically-controlled autobox. If you get the dreaded 'TRANS PROG' message displayed on the instrument cluster then it could well mean a £2k+ rebuild. Getting the box out requires a good set of half-inch drive extensions and lots of patience.
I would suugest that anyone thinking of buying one of these cars has is checked over VERY thoroughly by a trusted specialist. It is likely to be money well spent.
If you are after a car of this type/class an early 1990's Mercedes W124 (old E-class) is a much better bet. Go for a 230E, it has the M102 engine and reliable KE-Jetronic injection, fully hydrualic autobox. IMHO it is a much more durable and reliable car.
Hope that helps.
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Excellent post Aprilia...sums it up perfectly.
The other week the local trade were touting a BMW like Nick is interested in.....for nothing!! Free to someone who could collect and do the hours worth of work to get it a ticket. Previously it had been in caring private hands.
I turned it down and I think it was scrapped.
My experience of Mercedes is mostly with 190s of this age. As with your comments on the 230E the 190 seems far more "basic" to repair than the complex BMW.
What do you reckon to the Mercedes TD estates of that era?
M.M
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Thanks for that, Aprilia, a much needed reality check! I'm now running in the opposite direction! (My wife will be pleased).
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Great post, Aprilia. Why don't you email it to HJ for his Car-by-car breakdown. That is what I did for my 1995 Grand Cherokee. It is specific technical detail like that is so valuable to us [he says crossing the 730i off his list to leave only 30 or so other moneypits...]
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In response the M.M. ref. Mercedes
I think all Mercedes of this era (mid-80's to mid-90's) were very sound. This is when MB were at the height of their competence. From the mid-90's on, the marketing men and accounts got their hands on the company and things started to go downhill IMHO.
The W201, W124, W126 were all great cars. They were essentially the same basic design; the M102 and M103 engines were simple and robust and the avoidance of complex electronics and the use of the mechnical K/KE-Jectronic injection system meant that they were reliable. The diesels were a bit crude - but again, very reliable.
The only things to watch out for are the self-levelling rear suspension fitted to some models and the odd-ball versions like the '4-Matic'.
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Aprilia please help.
I have recently bought a J reg 730i 1992, and its got a few faults including electrical and tappet noise.
I took it to the local BMW dealer and got an estimate for the cost of repair and apparently its likely to be well over £1000.
Have you still got the PDF of the wiring diagram?
I would like to do the tappets myself and save the costs but there seems to be no Haynes or other manuals available for the 7 series at all, unless you know different?
John
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Sorry to hear of your problems John730.
Unfortunately its not going to be good news for you. If you are hearing 'tappet noise' then it is highly likely that the camshaft is shot. The banjo bolts on the spray bar come loose and the cam is starved of oil - this is very common on these BMW engines.
The cam cannot be replaced without removing the head. You need a new cam, new rockers, head gasket, + a day's labour to do the job.
What is the nature of your electrical problem? Post details and I may be able to help. If you can let me have your e-mail address then I will mail the pdf's to you.
I think Bentley (a US company) do a repair manual for this car - check on Amazon.
Keep clear of BMW dealers with this car - they will skin you alive. Try an independent.
A lot of people swear by BMW, but my experience, both personal and professional, is that they become unreliable and expensive to run as they age. Despite all that is written by the motoring journalists the E32/34 were not very good cars and suffered from horribly unreliable electrics. The M30 engine also continued the long BMW tradition of having a fragile cooling system - something that lives on to this day.
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The electrical problem:
when I unlock the drivers door the central locking first opens all the doors then closes them again. The dealer described the fault as \'bouncing\'.
My e-mail address is:
removed to save you from spam@hotmail.com
Thanks
As Aprilla has now sent you the pdf I\'ve edited your email address. ND
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OK, I have sent you the circuit diagram for a '92 model. Its a big file (approx. 840kB pdf).
BMW central locking is notoriously temperamental; check the mechanical adjustment of each locking unit - lubricate all of them using a spray lubricant. Check all of the earth connections on the central locking, including the interior light switch supply and earth contacts (the system uses the door light switches to detect if a door is not closed and won't lock if it thinks a door is open).
Let us know how you get on.
Eurocarparts or GSF car parts should be able to supply a cam and rocker set, plus headgasket set etc. You're advised to get a new oil spray bar too (only about £15) plus a set of modified banjo bolts and copper washers (from BMW dealer).
Hope this helps - best of luck with it.
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As you suggested, I searched Amazon and found the workshop manual and ordered it. It should arrive in a few weeks.
Thanks for sending the PDF, I cannot access it at the moment but hopefully this will help me trace the central locking problem.
I will start on the tappet noise when I get the manual.
Thanks again for all your very detailed help.
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John - apols if you already know this, you can get Acrobat Reader (for .pdf files) free at www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html
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I've a pal whose on his second very reasonably priced BMW series 7 and his experience has been nothing but sheer joy at being able to drive a high quality, top spec luxury car for around the price of a Focus or Mondeo.
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Re: Acrobat Reader
...or off the majority of computer magazine cover disks; latest version is 6.
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I can remember Quentin Wilson raving about old 7 series beamers when he was presenting on Top Gear. The only advice that he really gave was make sure it has a full service history and go to an specialist independent garage rather than a franchise. He found one for about £3000 - £4000 grand. Oh and fit a personal number plate so that no ones the year (me a snob ??).
Even at the above price you could spend a couple of grand and still have it running for a few years easily. And with the money you saved not buying a new one, you could buy a house.
He also said the same about old jags.
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Hmm. I wondered how many people were suckered into owning one based on his advice - ditto the Jag. Bet he never ran a 7! I've worked on a good number and I'd never recommend one as a used buy. If you want that sort of a car go for a Merc - more reliable, a lot less complicated and consequently a lot easier to fix.
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When I looked into used Mercedes buying I was put off by the high parts prices and servicing, are there many independent specialists around who can keep the Mercedes quality but don't have to pay for the vast glass and chrome showrooms from the labour rates off my bill?
With 2 young children (and the associated junk that goes with them) I was thinking of an early 90s 230 Estate.
Slightly off topic I know, but following on from Aprilia's post.
Gareth
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Early 90's Merc 230 (W124 chassis, M102 engine) much better option than equivalent BMW. Lots of independents (although they are simple enough for most garages to fix) and parts are reasonable from ECP, GSF or KMS - no problems at all.
On the estate check out the self-levelling rear suspension (& hydraulic pump on end of camshaft). I can give a full breakdown of items to check, if you wish.
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Whenever Quentin used to rant on about the benefits of buying these old oil guzzlers I always had a faint suspicion that he had been trawling the auctions for these "gems" for the last few months and had a warehouse full of them somewhere, ready for an upturn in the market.
But then that's just cynical me. I doubt he would have done, but I never could understand why he recommended the behemoths he did.
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I remember him recommending a Porsche 928S4. Lovely car but needs a spare petrol tank and bucketfuls (or is it buckets full?)of cash
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>>Its a big file (approx. 840kB pdf)>>
A big file....?
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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>>but there seems to be no Haynes or other manuals available for the 7 series at all,>>
Wouldn't think there was a great demand...:-)
I've a friend who buys a used 7 Series about every five years or so and transfers his personal number plate to each one he purchases.
As far as he is concerned he and his family get luxury motoring for buttons compared to new and he doesn't seem to have many problems with those he's had to date.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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I've a friend who buys a used 7 Series about every five years or so and transfers his personal number plate to each one he purchases. As far as he is concerned he and his family get luxury motoring for buttons compared to new and he doesn't seem to have many problems with those he's had to date.
Running a 7-series for buttons? I'd like to see how he does it!
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Hi Aprilia,
Wish I had read your reviews before purchasing my 735i se 1987. I bought it for 600. Since the heater matrix blew as a result of the car over heating. I am in a position wether or not is it worth my while ditching the car now lose 600 and move on to a merc which was my original intention. I had the car test for a head gasket leak and that came out negative thank god. I was curious to know more about the special nuts need for the drive shaft. Anyway would love your input. This was a summer car i intended to keep for a few monthsto do a road trip.
london.butler@gmail.com
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I have changed more than one heater matrix on an E32 and they are a pig to do - basically the dash has to come out and its a 1-2 day job.
How was the head gasket checked? To be honest I would suspect that the system is pressurising a bit, probably due to head gasket trouble or the head going porous. This is the usual reason for the matrix going.
Basically an '87 E32 is scrap - BMW's of this vintage are not really viable 'summer cars' in the way that older MB's are, even if they appear to be in good nick. The BMW's are too complex and unreliable. The MB will be simpler and more reliable. I am baffled why people rave about older BMW's; I have driven loads of these E32's and the E34's and they are not even that good to drive.
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'Not that good to drive'
Most of the E32's / E34's you have driven have probably been old nails then.......
If worn out suspension components are kept on top of and replaced when required, and steering boxes correctly adjusted, they are a superb drive!
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'Not that good to drive' Most of the E32's / E34's you have driven have probably been old nails then....... If worn out suspension components are kept on top of and replaced when required, and steering boxes correctly adjusted, they are a superb drive!
No, I've driven them on and off since they were launched. Used to service a few. The E34 was not bad in its day, I'll grant that. The E32 could never be called a superb drive - its a bit ponderous and the handling is not that great by modern standards, although I really did like the dash layouts on those cars though. I remember the first time I drove an E32 (a 730i) I was expecting something very special and was really rather disappointed.
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>Be aware that BMW parts supply is not that good on cars of 8 years or older. For example, the door handles have a habit of breaking on this car (which was sold up to 1994) and replacement handles have not been available for a couple of years now!
My brother-in-laws R-reg 5-series had to have two door handles replaced & they are main dealer or bm specialist only due to the tool availabilty!
--
Its not what you drive, its how you drive it! :-)
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>Be aware that BMW parts supply is not that good on cars of 8 years or older. For example, the door handles have a habit of breaking on this car (which was sold up to 1994) and replacement handles have not been available for a couple of years now! My brother-in-laws R-reg 5-series had to have two door handles replaced & they are main dealer or bm specialist only due to the tool availabilty!
Secondhand would probably be your best bet.
BMW have a policy of not having parts manufactured for cars over 10 years old - so when stock is used up, that's it I'm afraid! Contrast this with Mercedes - I have bought parts for 30-year-old Mercs without a problem. If its not in stock they will go back to the original manfr and get it made!
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I am seeing a few 7 series BMWs for sale around me at the moment. They are mainly M,N and P regs ( the old good looking 7) and seem to be going pretty cheap. At around 3.5K and sometimes less, a reasonable buy?
Or are these as frightening to diagnose/repair as the older ones?!
Not my cup of tea however.
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Very usefull Aprilia, not only for a buy decission, but also as a list of possible causes of problems in the owners car
You offer a copy of the wiring diagram pdf, i have an electrical problem (cant find the lighters fuse), is it possible to email it to me?
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Yes, if you post an e-mail address I will mail you schematic diagrams for the 1988-on E32.
The diagrams are about 800k Zipped.
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thanks hj@nl-plaza.nl please
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