Used Full Hybrid family car advice - Michael Penn

Hi, I'm looking to buy a used family car - full (self charging) hybrid is a must. Unfortunately because I'm renting my flat and only have on-street parking, PHEV hybrids and electric cars are out.

It seems like the same cars always crop up in reviews - Toyota Prius & Corolla, Hyundia Ioniq, Kia Niro. Couple of Hondas.

Are there any other full hybrid family cars I could consider at a slightly higher price point? VW, BMW, Volvo? Seems like VW and BMW are either mild hybrids or PHEV now.

Apologies in advance if I'm missing important information, this is all pretty new to me. Appreciate any guidance!

thanks v m

Used Full Hybrid family car advice - badbusdriver

Are there any other full hybrid family cars I could consider at a slightly higher price point? VW, BMW, Volvo? Seems like VW and BMW are either mild hybrids or PHEV now.

Not really, but it really depends on your budget?

Used Full Hybrid family car advice - Michael Penn

Thanks, that's a fair point. I think we could go up to £22-23k for the right model if it was fairly new. I guess with hybrids getting a relative new used car is advantageous (warranty and battery issues).

Used Full Hybrid family car advice - movilogo

a slightly higher price point?

Lexus?

Used Full Hybrid family car advice - Michael Penn

thank you! Yes I think one reviewer mentioned the RX, ES and UX, but the problem was the terrible infotainment system. Not a deal breaker but I know it would be a factor...especially for my wife! I will look into those models further though, thanks for the suggestion!

Used Full Hybrid family car advice - Mike H

We've had our Honda CR-V Hybrid for nearly two years and are delighted with it. Ours is the top of the range EX model, and can certainly be classed as a reasonably high price point! It certainly feels a premium model, and is very well equipped.

You don't say whether you have experienced driving a hybrid, but the Honda is very smooth and a joy to drive, with its stepless i-MMD transmission (hence no gearchanges as you get with a conventional TC automatic transmission). Over 16,000 varied miles ours is showing an average of 43mpg, measured brim to brim.

HTH

Used Full Hybrid family car advice - Michael Penn

Many thanks Mike H, appreciate it! I think I originally looked past this car because of a preference for hatchback or saloon, but I will look into it a bit more given your suggestion. thanks again!

Used Full Hybrid family car advice - badbusdriver

Yes I think one reviewer mentioned the RX, ES and UX, but the problem was the terrible infotainment system.

Don't quote me on this, but I suspect the infotainment in the Lexus is only `terrible` compared to the best in class, which are easier and more intuitive to use. I suspect in actual fact, you'd get used to it pretty quickly if you owned the car.

Given your preference for a saloon or hatchback, I'd be looking at the Toyota Camry myself. The prices for the current model (on Autotrader) start at just under 21k. It is quite a large car though, so for something bit smaller, again with your preferences in mind, you could get a brand new Hyundai Ionic for the same money, with its 5 year warranty. Going another step down (in terms or the cars physical size, not necessarily interior space) you can get a new Jazz from under 17.5k.

Edited by badbusdriver on 12/05/2021 at 16:15

Used Full Hybrid family car advice - SkodaIan

A

Edited by SkodaIan on 12/05/2021 at 16:17

Used Full Hybrid family car advice - SkodaIan

If you never plug in a "Plug In" hybrid, it effectively becomes just like a self charging full hybrid, so I wouldn't dismiss them entirely on the basis of it being the plug-in version.

However plug in hybrids tend to be more expensive so there's little point buying one if you never intend to charge it, unless it's a model you really like.

Edited by SkodaIan on 12/05/2021 at 16:16

Used Full Hybrid family car advice - Engineer Andy

As I understand it, many people (relative to before) started buying PHEVs, especially larger cars with them, to get around the tax and congestion charges that had started to cost standard hybrid car owners money like everyone else. I believe that councils and the government have cottoned onto this and only pure EVs attract the zero/ultra low rates now.

The other issue is that if the driving pattern doesn't charge up the hybrid batteries much, they and the electric motor essentially become just 'dead weight' which might lower the mpg/up the emissions to worse than a non-hybrid version of the same car. Not so bad with a sleek Prius type car, not so good for a big boxy Mitsubishi SUV.

Used Full Hybrid family car advice - badbusdriver

Also worth bearing in mind that you can get a new Toyota Corolla 1.8 well under your budget (from just over 19k), and also, if you want a bit more poke, the 2.0 version is available from just under 23k.

Used Full Hybrid family car advice - movilogo

terrible infotainment system

I now prefer cars which don't come with any infotainment system! It becomes obsolete very quickly - especially sat navs. Smart phones are way better as sat nav as as well music streaming device. Wish cars have just a phone holder in place of infotainment.

Used Full Hybrid family car advice - Terry W

Hybrids are of questionable benefit as they simply add weight, complexity and cost.

Only if you are able to plug in to recharge may they make sense - for example if the normal daily trip for work or shopping is a few miles, most driving could be electric powered. You still have no range constraints for longer journeys.

Neither are hybrids green - the energy (and therefore fuel) required to move the vehicle would tend to be higher due to the increased weight, possibly offset slightly by regenerative braking if the car is so equipped.

The only reaso to buy one is that it makes you feel good (pretend to be green?) or has street cred (amongst your peer group)!

Used Full Hybrid family car advice - Michael Penn

Hybrids are of questionable benefit as they simply add weight, complexity and cost.

Only if you are able to plug in to recharge may they make sense - for example if the normal daily trip for work or shopping is a few miles, most driving could be electric powered. You still have no range constraints for longer journeys.

Neither are hybrids green - the energy (and therefore fuel) required to move the vehicle would tend to be higher due to the increased weight, possibly offset slightly by regenerative braking if the car is so equipped.

Points taken. My situation is 1) trying to improve fuel efficiency; 2) trying to be a bit green; 3) no easy ability to charge an electric battery due to living in a flat and no easy access to a charging station

Given that background, I would have thought a Full (self charging) hybrid is the best bet. EV's and PHEV's are out because I wouldn't be able to charge them at home, and don't fancy sitting around for 45 minutes at a charging station with two toddlers in the back waiting for the battery to recharge!

Used Full Hybrid family car advice - Engineer Andy

Hybrids are of questionable benefit as they simply add weight, complexity and cost.

Only if you are able to plug in to recharge may they make sense - for example if the normal daily trip for work or shopping is a few miles, most driving could be electric powered. You still have no range constraints for longer journeys.

Neither are hybrids green - the energy (and therefore fuel) required to move the vehicle would tend to be higher due to the increased weight, possibly offset slightly by regenerative braking if the car is so equipped.

Points taken. My situation is 1) trying to improve fuel efficiency; 2) trying to be a bit green; 3) no easy ability to charge an electric battery due to living in a flat and no easy access to a charging station

Given that background, I would have thought a Full (self charging) hybrid is the best bet. EV's and PHEV's are out because I wouldn't be able to charge them at home, and don't fancy sitting around for 45 minutes at a charging station with two toddlers in the back waiting for the battery to recharge!

Forget about the fuel efficiency, as it's likely you'll never make the price premium back for a hybrid over a standard ICE car by better mpg (for the same performance/size/load capacity).

Understandable about the lower emissions, especially in a city environment, and going standard hybrid over plug-in/full EV due to living in a flat (like me) and charging issues. Note that for the London ULEZ, any petrol car that is EU4 compliant (EU6, around about 2015-16 for diesels) will be allowed in without the extra fee, which means almost all petrol-engined cars since around 2004.

Given the current worldwide situation, I'd much rather hold onto my cash and buy a reliable ICE-only (petrol) car, and you don't need to buy one that's new. A 5 year old one that's been well maintained from a decent make would do, possibly saving you £10k or more which you could make use of if and likely when the country's or your own circumstances change.

Note also that hybrid cars (including PHEVs) are now VERY lucrative targets for thieves - that steal the catalytic conveter (especially Toyotas, particularly Priuses), so much so that there is a shortage of replacements and retrofitted locking devices are now being sold to deter said thieves. I suspect insurance prices will also be on the rise for them as well unless and until car manufacturers make them more secure in that respect.

I'd go for a petrol-only car, save yourself a fortune on the purchase price, have little worries about the CAT and save the leftover for another day.

Used Full Hybrid family car advice - London calling

Hybrids are of questionable benefit...don’t agree Terry. Toyota and Lexus use Atkinson cycle engines in their hybrids and they are more economical than the standard ice engine. I regularly get low to mid 40mpg out of my NX300h which is pretty good for a petrol engined car and for the size of vehicle..

Used Full Hybrid family car advice - Michael Penn

Also worth bearing in mind that you can get a new Toyota Corolla 1.8 well under your budget (from just over 19k), and also, if you want a bit more poke, the 2.0 version is available from just under 23k.

Thanks very much and interestingly that is exactly what I was looking at - Corolla 1.8 saloon. As you rightly point out that would come out below budget brand new, and a lot below budget as a used car. I was just wondering if, given the space in my budget, there might be higher end brands available eg VW does a Golf Mild Hybrid, but I don't think they offer a Full hybrid.

thanks again!

Used Full Hybrid family car advice - Michael Penn

If you never plug in a "Plug In" hybrid, it effectively becomes just like a self charging full hybrid,

That's interesting. From my understanding, the battery used in PHEV's (ie plug in hybrids) are *not* charged by the engine - once they run out your car effectively becomes a normal petrol engine car carrying around a heavy battery (incidentally making it very fuel inefficient). The only cars which charge the battery via the engine are mild and full hybrids. Have I got that wrong?

Used Full Hybrid family car advice - badbusdriver

That's interesting. From my understanding, the battery used in PHEV's (ie plug in hybrids) are *not* charged by the engine - once they run out your car effectively becomes a normal petrol engine car carrying around a heavy battery (incidentally making it very fuel inefficient). The only cars which charge the battery via the engine are mild and full hybrids. Have I got that wrong?

As far as I am aware, a PHEV self charges like a non plug in. That would certainly go some way towards explaining the huge jump in price of a Kia Niro comparing self charge to plug in (nearly 5k).

Used Full Hybrid family car advice - Michael Penn

a non plug in. That would certainly go some way towards explaining the huge jump in price of a Kia Niro comparing self charge to plug in (nearly 5k).

I assumed the jump in price was because they have much larger batteries than the full hybrids and can go much further on electric power.

Used Full Hybrid family car advice - badbusdriver

a non plug in. That would certainly go some way towards explaining the huge jump in price of a Kia Niro comparing self charge to plug in (nearly 5k).

I assumed the jump in price was because they have much larger batteries than the full hybrids and can go much further on electric power.

Not 100% sure myself, but logic dictates they (PHEV`s) do self charge, and a quick internet search, while by no means definitive, supports this assumption.

Used Full Hybrid family car advice - badbusdriver

Thanks very much and interestingly that is exactly what I was looking at - Corolla 1.8 saloon. As you rightly point out that would come out below budget brand new, and a lot below budget as a used car. I was just wondering if, given the space in my budget, there might be higher end brands available eg VW does a Golf Mild Hybrid, but I don't think they offer a Full hybrid.

Also, not quite sure why you might think VW a higher end brand than Toyota?. I guess it depends whether you think image is more important than reliability. Personally, I`d take a Toyota over most other cars. And I certainly consider a Corolla, in pretty much every respect, to be a better car than a Golf.

Used Full Hybrid family car advice - Michael Penn

Thanks very much and interestingly that is exactly what I was looking at - Corolla 1.8 saloon. As you rightly point out that would come out below budget brand new, and a lot below budget as a used car. I was just wondering if, given the space in my budget, there might be higher end brands available eg VW does a Golf Mild Hybrid, but I don't think they offer a Full hybrid.

Also, not quite sure why you might think VW a higher end brand than Toyota?. I guess it depends whether you think image is more important than reliability. Personally, I`d take a Toyota over most other cars. And I certainly consider a Corolla, in pretty much every respect, to be a better car than a Golf.

I generally think of VW as having higher price points than Toyotas, not because of reliability but perhaps because of quality of finish and the "tech".

I'm certainly not dismissing Toyota - indeed the Corolla 1.8 hybrid saloon is currently my top choice, I'm just curious if there are alternatives I should be looking at outside of Hyundai and Kia. thanks!

Used Full Hybrid family car advice - Engineer Andy

Thanks very much and interestingly that is exactly what I was looking at - Corolla 1.8 saloon. As you rightly point out that would come out below budget brand new, and a lot below budget as a used car. I was just wondering if, given the space in my budget, there might be higher end brands available eg VW does a Golf Mild Hybrid, but I don't think they offer a Full hybrid.

Also, not quite sure why you might think VW a higher end brand than Toyota?. I guess it depends whether you think image is more important than reliability. Personally, I`d take a Toyota over most other cars. And I certainly consider a Corolla, in pretty much every respect, to be a better car than a Golf.

I generally think of VW as having higher price points than Toyotas, not because of reliability but perhaps because of quality of finish and the "tech".

I'm certainly not dismissing Toyota - indeed the Corolla 1.8 hybrid saloon is currently my top choice, I'm just curious if there are alternatives I should be looking at outside of Hyundai and Kia. thanks!

I'd go for the Corolla estate insteadif given the choice - far more of them about - more choice and a bigger boot space for a family. As someone who owns a 'small' saloon (Mazda3 2005 build), the boot opening is small, meaning its fine (large capacity relative to the hatch) for suitcases, golf bags, etc, but not to put large (cubed-shaped) boxes in, as they don't fit through the aperture or the rear doors.

Note also that the better Corolla 2.0 hybrid is NOT available in the saloon in the UK, only in the hatch and estate.

Used Full Hybrid family car advice - Michael Penn

the boot opening is small, meaning its fine (large capacity relative to the hatch) for suitcases, golf bags, etc, but not to put large (cubed-shaped) boxes in, as they don't fit through the aperture or the rear doors.

Note also that the better Corolla 2.0 hybrid is NOT available in the saloon in the UK, only in the hatch and estate.

All really helpful advice, thanks Andy! Good to know about the 1.8 vs 2.0 also. thanks again

Used Full Hybrid family car advice - Michael Penn

This is what I found:

"The main difference is that the battery is bigger, allowing a PHEV to drive much further on electric power alone. The battery’s size means it can’t be recharged by the car as it drives along like a regular hybrid. Instead, just like a fully electric car, you have to plug in a PHEV in order to recharge the battery."

www.carbuyer.co.uk/tips-and-advice/303135/hybrid-v...s

Used Full Hybrid family car advice - badbusdriver

This is what I found:

"The main difference is that the battery is bigger, allowing a PHEV to drive much further on electric power alone. The battery’s size means it can’t be recharged by the car as it drives along like a regular hybrid. Instead, just like a fully electric car, you have to plug in a PHEV in order to recharge the battery."

www.carbuyer.co.uk/tips-and-advice/303135/hybrid-v...s

Ah well, this is what I found,

self-charging-plug-in-hybrids-explained

and,

145879-self-charging-hybrid-phev-hybrid-cars-explained

But given you don't have the ability to charge at home, it is a moot point. As I said before, there is a £5k difference in price between a Kia Niro PHEV and self charge hybrids, so unless you can charge at home, or have easy access to charging close by, there really wouldn't be any point in shelling out all that extra money.

I generally think of VW as having higher price points than Toyotas, not because of reliability but perhaps because of quality of finish and the "tech"

Through reading motoring magazines extensively, I get the distinct impression that VW interior quality is nothing like what it once was. The current infotainment systems has and is suffering from various problems through being rushed into production before it was properly developed. But hey, its your money, you buy what you think works best for you. I view cars on 'fitness for purpose' and pretty much nothing else, so I'm not swayed by badges and the latest (i.e, untested) tech.

Edited by badbusdriver on 13/05/2021 at 06:48

Used Full Hybrid family car advice - Michael Penn

Through reading motoring magazines extensively, I get the distinct impression that VW interior quality is nothing like what it once was. The current infotainment systems has and is suffering from various problems through being rushed into production before it was properly developed. But hey, its your money, you buy what you think works best for you. I view cars on 'fitness for purpose' and pretty much nothing else, so I'm not swayed by badges and the latest (i.e, untested) tech.

That's fair. I've lived in America for the past 15 years (and am now returning to the UK) so my experience with VW was from 2000-2005 in the UK; Could well be the quality has deteriorated since then. Thanks this is really helpful

Edited by Michael Penn on 13/05/2021 at 13:42

Used Full Hybrid family car advice - barney100

I've been reading up on Phevs and it seems such a palaver once you are on a trip with so many cards needed for a charge, 30 odd miles range on the one loaned to me (Merc) and a large car running on a Renault 1.3 petrol. Ok if you hardly leave your area but I do. Expensive to buy too.

Used Full Hybrid family car advice - Sofa Spud

So called "self-charging" is clever sales jargon for "non-plug-in". Regenerative braking is the only means of charging the battery on a self-charging hybrid and this can give something like 15% - 20% extra range for free. On a plug-in hybrid you'd get that too, plus whatever additional range the larger battery can provide from being plugged in to a charger. If a PHEV is more efficient than the other sort, it doesn't really matter that it weighs a bit more. Anyway lots of people are happy driving around in cars with bigger, heavier engines than they need or with heavy 4-wheel-drive they don't need!

Used Full Hybrid family car advice - Heidfirst

So called "self-charging" is clever sales jargon for "non-plug-in". Regenerative braking is the only means of charging the battery on a self-charging hybrid

Fairly sure that this is not true of Toyota hybrids - they can charge the battery from the ICE.

Edited by Heidfirst on 13/05/2021 at 12:13

Used Full Hybrid family car advice - mcb100

Only a '30 mile range' if you run it in EV mode. :Leave the car to its own devices and it'll function as a regular hybrid but travel further emissions free than a 'self charging' hybrid as it has a larger battery.

Used Full Hybrid family car advice - madf

The AVERAGE UK car journey is under 10 miles.

Used Full Hybrid family car advice - Terry W

A 25-35 mile range on electric with a PHEV will for many cover shopping, commuting, school run with a charge needed every one or two days.

If you have no way to plug in, then they are fairly pointless - a lot of complexity and weight for little benefit. Whether it makes financial sense is a question separate to environmental impacts.

At 20 miles a day, 5 days a week, the annual short journey mileage would be ~5000. Petrol at (say) 40 mpg would use 125 gallons - approx £700pa. Saving is ~£400-500 with a PHEV over petrol. Any extra on longer journeys would be as an ICE.

Given the premium paid for a PHEV over ICE, it would typically take a decade or more to recover the additional new purchase price from reduced fuel costs. As a better s/h market develops they may start to make sense - but IMHO, not yet.

 

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