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Never really seen the sense of the "repair would cost more than the car is worth" cutoff. So what?
The "market value" is what other people think, which is of little interest unless selling, which I never am.
If I applied that metric I'd never fix anything.
Pure bangernomics is really only applicable to newish cars, which are likely to be expensive to repair (if its possible), but easily replaced with another one.
Older cars are likely to be cheaper to repair (if its possible), but hard to replace, so I take such decisions against the background of a diminishing resource, without thinking about market value.
Market value would kick in again if a car achieved "classic" status, but that has never happened to any of mine while I've had them.
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That Jag based on the Mondeo. Twin headlights. I aren't a Jag expert so probably got the letter wrong.
That is the X Type, not a bad car at all.
Personally, I think the saloon version looks a bit awkward with the pseudo XJ styling, the estate is a much nicer and more balanced looking car.
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Pure bangernomics is really only applicable to newish cars,
Pure bangernomics and newish goes together as much as fish and chocolate.
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Pure bangernomics is really only applicable to newish cars,
Pure bangernomics and newish goes together as much as fish and chocolate.
Aye, well, maybe, but there's two ways to measure age, the first of course terms of how old a vehicle is, but also how much it's been used. I've regularly put 200,000 miles on cars in five years. Some would say that those five year old cars were then bangers. In reality though, they've all done it very easily.
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Pure bangernomics is really only applicable to newish cars,
Pure bangernomics and newish goes together as much as fish and chocolate.
Well, I explained what I meant. Perhaps you could do the same?
My explanation covered what I meant by newish, which is a relative term. A newish car is likely to be replacable fairly cheaply. I'd say an "ordinary" this century car around 10 years old would still be "newish" to me, and would be typical bangernomics fodder.
To give further context, my current car is oldish (34 years) and isnt readily replacable, so isn't typical bangernomics fodder.
Bangernomics isn't really any different to "ordinary" car ownership. All cars (apart from classics and maybe my oldish cars) are generally viewed as disposable and are disposed of when repair cost exceeds the value of the vehicle. Insurance companies write off new cars all the time. Bangernomicists just do it with lower value vehicles
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Bangernomics is all very well if you are mechanically minded. But do any owners of these old cars consider the SAFETY aspect if they were involved in a collision. If you can afford it give me a modern car with airbags, collapsible steering, and other safety gismos.
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But do any owners of these old cars consider the SAFETY aspect if they were involved in a collision.
Yes, nothing wrong with a MK1 Focus.
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But do any owners of these old cars consider the SAFETY aspect if they were involved in a collision.
Yes, nothing wrong with a MK1 Focus.
And you would be extremely unlucky if its cambelt breaks. Ours is 20yrs old and approaching its design life of 150,000m. But if a cack-handed mechanic had replaced the quality original with a cheapo a few thousand miles ago, .........
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But do any owners of these old cars consider the SAFETY aspect if they were involved in a collision.
Yes, nothing wrong with a MK1 Focus/Saab/Volvo/Mondeo etc. etc.
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Nope. Doesn't bear thinking about.
Safer than my motorcycles though
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Nope. Doesn't bear thinking about.
Safer than my motorcycles though
You'll only feel safe in a self driving tank. I'm surprised you dare to leave your house, still, It might be struck by lightning.
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I think Safety element is often overplayed by those that have an incentive to sell us new.
How often does the ordinary person crash sufficiently badly to need the multitude of safety equipment? I'm also cyclist and usually do more miles on two wheels than on four. I feel relatively safe in my older cars vs bicycle.
The other thing older cars do, is make you think a bit more about your driving. My Corolla has no airbags, ESC or ABS. So, I'm more cautious in my driving and braking distance. It makes me a better driver.
Edited by Moodyman on 18/01/2021 at 11:37
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I think Safety element is often overplayed by those that have an incentive to sell us new.
How often does the ordinary person crash sufficiently badly to need the multitude of safety equipment?
Perhaps true. I think people may have been influenced by too much video of horrendous crashes (which I think are now rarer than they were when thick fog was more common) and also by statistics comparing the probabilities of very unlikely events with even less likely ones. I have been a driver for nearly 60 years and have yet to suffer any bodily damage in the few bumps my cars have suffered. No airbag has yet triggered either. Seatbelts may have helped a bit on occasion.
While the addition of crumple zones, airbags and side-impact bars will have 'saved many lives' we can only estimate their real benefit by guessing what might have happened without them. They have certainly helped make cars bigger and heavier - which itself contributes to heavier impacts, a bit of a vicious circle.
Discuss ?
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I think Safety element is often overplayed by those that have an incentive to sell us new.
How often does the ordinary person crash sufficiently badly to need the multitude of safety equipment?
Perhaps true. I think people may have been influenced by too much video of horrendous crashes (which I think are now rarer than they were when thick fog was more common) and also by statistics comparing the probabilities of very unlikely events with even less likely ones. I have been a driver for nearly 60 years and have yet to suffer any bodily damage in the few bumps my cars have suffered. No airbag has yet triggered either. Seatbelts may have helped a bit on occasion.
While the addition of crumple zones, airbags and side-impact bars will have 'saved many lives' we can only estimate their real benefit by guessing what might have happened without them. They have certainly helped make cars bigger and heavier - which itself contributes to heavier impacts, a bit of a vicious circle.
Discuss ?
I think that the original (not this thread) question on that score was someone (it may have been HJ himself back in the day on his DT column on Saturdays) arguing - maybe sacastically - that driving would be far safer had all steering wheels got a large metal spike in the middle pointing towards the driver.
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Well yes, But you are in one of the safest countries in terms of driver behaviour. In somewhere more Third Worldy, like, say, the USA, the risks are more in your face.
Only takes a moments inattention
tw.forumosa.com/t/a-timely-reminder/69356/6
But I suppose I was forgetting my own distinction with my "doesn't bear thinking about" comment. The Skywing looks, feels,(especially since I removed the carpets and most of the plastic trim) and is, tinny, but it is an oldish econobox, not a typical banger,
The 1998 Honda Accord I've been driving (and fiddling with) recently is still older than your typical banger but feels almost SAAB-solid,
I doubt there have been big gains in passive safety in the last 10 years, and unless advanced composites were used on a large scale I doubt such gains would be possible at practical weights, so your typical banger is probably about as safe as it gets.
The active stuff is probably another matter, but the ambiguous early results from ABS suggest it will be a while before the jury gets back on that.
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Bangernomics isn't really any different to "ordinary" car ownership.
O-o-o-h yes it is. The fundamental criterion for 'bangernomics' is a minimum possible capital 'investment'. I think it is generally agreed that this should not exceed a figure obtained by dividing the cost of a fairly basic new car by the number of years of its expected lifespan at say 10,000 miles a year, i.e. around fifteen. This gives a figure of around £1000, as mentioned in my short post yesterday, which lacked this rather wordy explanation.
Edited by John F on 16/01/2021 at 12:51
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Perhaps a more basic definition might be that the right price in bangernomics terms is the amount you can stomach writing off if the car collapses in an irreparable heap.
Everyone is different, but I suspect the average would coincide with John's figure of £1,000 max.
Edited by Avant on 16/01/2021 at 14:00
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Really interesting to read peoples views on this. l'm in a position with a 55 plate Toyota RAV4 D-4D that is showing signs of corrosion underneath (Mot Nov 20) that l'm still debating what to do.
After good advise on here l'll be going petrol, probably an estate & its narrowed down to a Focus, Mondeo, Astra, Octavia or Mazda 6 (5k ish budget)
Alternatively, l may just have the RAV repaired, as the mileage is good, it looks good & l know the car. Also, as others have mentioned, during these times getting hold of a car isn't easy.
The other option is to go bangernomics, mainly just because l can. Though it would be the only car, we're both now retired & if it did go bang & l had to source another it would be an inconvenience at best. There is however, the nagging doubt that it would go bang at the worst possible time; but that can happen to any car.
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Really interesting to read peoples views on this. l'm in a position with a 55 plate Toyota RAV4 D-4D that is showing signs of corrosion underneath (Mot Nov 20) that l'm still debating what to do.
Alternatively, l may just have the RAV repaired, as the mileage is good, it looks good & l know the car.
If you know and like it, I'd have thought you would want to keep it. I should think virtually all 55 plate RAV4s show 'signs of corrosion underneath'. Can't be too serious if it passed the MoT. Why not arrest it with a wire brush and a can of quality black paint which can be applied straight onto a rusty surface? It can be a satisfying way to occupy a sunny summer afternoon. Grease or paint the brake pipes as well while you're under it - replacing them is a lucrative source of income for garages if they spot a bit of surface corrosion.
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Edd China would know what to do, and he's probably at a bit of a loose end these days...
;-)
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Really interesting to read peoples views on this. l'm in a position with a 55 plate Toyota RAV4 D-4D that is showing signs of corrosion underneath (Mot Nov 20) that l'm still debating what to do.
Alternatively, l may just have the RAV repaired, as the mileage is good, it looks good & l know the car.
If you know and like it, I'd have thought you would want to keep it. I should think virtually all 55 plate RAV4s show 'signs of corrosion underneath'. Can't be too serious if it passed the MoT. Why not arrest it with a wire brush and a can of quality black paint which can be applied straight onto a rusty surface? It can be a satisfying way to occupy a sunny summer afternoon. Grease or paint the brake pipes as well while you're under it - replacing them is a lucrative source of income for garages if they spot a bit of surface corrosion.
l may just do that. Though l'll have a chat with the local mechanic first, as the main area of the corrosion (both sides) is the inner suspension mounting area, as well as the front sub-frame. No point in painting over with a rust inhibitor if a better long term repair is cutting out & new metal.
Funny you should mention brake pipes, that was the other advisory.
Edited by chesterfieldhouse on 17/01/2021 at 11:03
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Why not arrest it with a wire brush and a can of quality black paint which can be applied straight onto a rusty surface?
Why not arrest it with some sunflower oil and an (empty) can of quality beer, which can be applied straight onto a rusty surface?.
bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/coke-can-for-bra.../
Use foil for the brake pipes.
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Bangernomics isn't really any different to "ordinary" car ownership.
O-o-o-h yes it is. The fundamental criterion for 'bangernomics' is a minimum possible capital 'investment'. I think it is generally agreed that this should not exceed a figure obtained by dividing the cost of a fairly basic new car by the number of years of its expected lifespan at say 10,000 miles a year, i.e. around fifteen. This gives a figure of around £1000, as mentioned in my short post yesterday, which lacked this rather wordy explanation.
Like I said, "Bangernomicists just do it with lower value vehicles.". Can't see anything above that contradicts that.
The underlying assumption of disposability, and probably the criterion for it as well (cost of repair < market value) are the same.
Perhaps insurance introduces a bit of a difference. New cars (lets say...er..under 3 years...I don't know much about new stuff, except that its no good) are probably comprehensively insured because its too big a chunk of change to lose, whereas bangers will be 3PFF. That might even be a working definition of a banger, come to think on't.
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My A4 1.9 Tdi 130 is in the bangernomics class and is simply a brilliant car and according to members of tge forum one of the best cars that VAG have ever made.
Just one snag, the air con compressor has failed which made the car unusable in the heatwave. The compressor fitted is extremely to source second hand making the repair using a new one over £1000 , as the damaged internal drive pollutes the whole system.
So i fitted some air deflectors and fingers crossed I should be ok until next summer.
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Going to be Captain Obvious for a moment, apologies in advance:
Surely VW don't make the compressor themselves? I know with my Land Rover the compressor is a Nippon Denso unit for example, and by getting the Denso part it is 1/3rd the price of the one with LR stickers on it. Fortunately i havent needed to either way!
EDIT: I had a look on autodoc, assuming yours is a B7, there are a whole range of compressors available starting from £243 including VAT, and other brands I have not heard of for about £160. Could be worth a look, the longer you leave it the more the seals are going to be drying out. I use mine all year. I know people say you need to clear out the system and change a bunch of other parts, but I would take the risk at that money, worst that can happen is you need another compressor.
2nd Edit i forgot the link www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/compressor-parts-10454...4 or just enter your reg if i guessed the year wrong.
Edited by Metropolis. on 16/01/2021 at 17:31
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That is brilliant Metropolis .
I have had a quote from a VW specialist for £700 if there is no debris pollution or £1100 if there is and needs purging.
I love the car so it looks as if it’s not written off.
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If you are willing to take a smallish gamble, I would go for one of those OEM compressors, then try just replacing the compressor. Halfords will regas the system for about £50 and that includes evacuating the system using a proper machine. I wonder if the VW specialist knows something that I don't, like is the ac compressor tucked behind a load of other parts that requires the front end of the car to come off? That could be part of the cost.
The specialist is probably worried about metal particles being in the system from the current compressor dying, those particles could kill the new compressor. that is a risk yes, and some say the other parts in the system should be replaced as well to prevent it.
However this is bangernomics, the compressors are cheap, so if it is not much labour to swap the compressors (apart from legally the gas needs to be evacuated properly not just let into the atmosphere but most places advertising regas will have a machine that does this) then you should be good to go.
I agree with you about it being a write off without AC, its all well and good saying opening the windows but that only works at speeds between 10-35mph, any lower and you're just breathing in fumes and any higher and your face will be getting blasted. It is no fun sweating away and in some ways dangerous as you just can't focus. My car has rear ceiling mounted aircon for the non-existent passengers including in the boot. I use it all to ensure I have maximum cooling. A real, luxury I would hate to do without.
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I agree with you about it being a write off without AC,
I wouldn't, but then I'm in Taiwan.
Havn't experienced the inferno of a British Summer in quite a while.
"This is THE SUN's Anvil"
getyarn.io/yarn-clip/dc7a42c8-89e2-4fae-9b6b-3ef68...2
Edited by edlithgow on 18/01/2021 at 00:55
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Just re-read your post about it being extemely difficult to source, I think your specialist might be taking you for a ride...
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Bangernomics may be described as prioritising lowest total costs of private motoring consistent with legal compliance (MoT, insurance, road tax), and acceptable basic levels of safety and reliability..
Performance, comfort, gizmos, brand image etc are all subordinate.
Bear in mind that there are some for who lowest cost is an economic imperative (I have no spare cash), and those for whom bangenomics is a choice (I could afford a bigger better car but I choose not to).
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<< Perhaps insurance introduces a bit of a difference. New cars (lets say...er..under 3 years...I don't know much about new stuff, except that its no good) are probably comprehensively insured because its too big a chunk of change to lose, whereas bangers will be 3PFF. >>
Actually it may not be. I suppose we own a pair of bangers (aged 13 and 26 years) and I find that the extra cost of Comp insurance is so marginal that I always use it. Presumably the likelihood of the policy having to cover repairs (after the excess is paid) is almost nil as the car will nearly always be written off.
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