Citroen C3 Picasso - Pros and cons of using oil-change pump? - Dev's

Hello all.

I took over the annual oil & filter changes since my car passed 5 years of age, and the most awkward part of the job is getting the car up on ramps - the low front valance means it scrunches against the start of the ramp unless I add a short plank there too...

I notice Lidl's are selling oil change pumps for £10 (where's everyone gone?) so was wondering about using one of these instead. What are people's experience of using them? Pros and cons?

I guess one 'con' will be if you are not sure that the pick-up pipe is genuinely at the bottom of the sump, so it might not remove as much oil as it could? But, almost unbelievably, the sump plug on the C3 is actually RECESSED in to the sump bottom on these cars so not all the old oil drains out via the plug in any case!

What method do garages use these days - sump plug or pump?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Citroen C3 Picasso - Pros and cons of using oil-change pump? - dadbif
Just sold mine after 10 years, cracking car!
Anyway, always did my own oil changes, used to jack up the near side just enough to get my drain can underneath, easy, getting to the filter was a bit of a fiddle, and you need to get a 27mm socket to undo the filter housing.
Citroen C3 Picasso - Pros and cons of using oil-change pump? - Andrew-T

I still change the oil on my 306 by the traditional DiY method, but I gave up trying on my 207 - it was just too awkward for ramps and general access. I am happy to pay the local garage to do the job every 18 months or so, especially when I found when checking the dipstick after the last change, that the new oil was still clean when I got home. I have never seen that before with a diesel engine, so I assume they did a complete drain rather than suck out of the dipstick tube.

Any crud in the sump will probably be at the bottom, so if your pump can't reach there you won't get a complete drain.

Citroen C3 Picasso - Pros and cons of using oil-change pump? - Gibbo_Wirral

My dad has one. We've used it on my 307 & 308 and his Berlingo engine.

It only ever manages to get 3.5 to 4L out. Doing a standard drain always gets at least 4.5L

Citroen C3 Picasso - Pros and cons of using oil-change pump? - gordonbennet

If you're keeping the car for several years, one of these Fumoto valves makes oil changes a doddle, full drain but no mess, i don't even need to raise the Forester or Landcruiser and i imagine if you drove the front wheels onto two bricks there would be enough room to do the job.

www.quickvalve.co.uk/index.htm

I've used them for a good few years now, never an issue, i dont use the spring clip they sell as a secondary safety device, just clip a new cable tie in each time instead (nothing is needed really unless you go rough offroading its just my belt and braces precaution), not leaked a single drop to date.

The big advantage is you can drain with the engine at max temperature without the danger of sploshing boiling hot oil over yourself or trying to catch a hot sump plug/washer before it vanishes into the bottom of the drain can.

Citroen C3 Picasso - Pros and cons of using oil-change pump? - bathtub tom

Read the description on the pump rate and then work out how long it will take to drain your sump. No need to bother about sludge, as if you do regular oil changes it shouldn't occur.

Citroen C3 Picasso - Pros and cons of using oil-change pump? - Oli rag
Have used a vacuum pump on my current and previous cars. The current car I’ve hard for 7 years and I’ve always used the pump down the dipstick tube to change the oil. No worries about leaving sludge and crap behind because if you change the oil at yearly intervals there won’t be any.

I I think the only fear is that the sludge doesn’t get removed is if the oil has been left to go sludgy, in other words you’ve vastly extended the change interval or mileage.

When I first bought the vac pump, I checked after I’d used it and then removed the drain plug to see how much was left in the sump, the answer is hardly anything. Relax, use one and save all the scrambling underneath. That only applies if your oil filter is accessible!
Citroen C3 Picasso - Pros and cons of using oil-change pump? - edlithgow

My drain plug on the Skywing goes into a castellated nut which prevents a complete drain and also acts as a strainer for say, bits of gasket or varnish. Its a bad design, and in that sort of context (like yours?) I'd think a pump might be better, though I've never used one.

I took the sump off for a couple of short oil changes. This was a pain, requiring removal of engine mountings and a cross brace, but hopefully it got rid of most of the accumulated debris.

There are, however, dead spaces in this (and probably other) engines which an oil drain does not clear. (The casting void behind the oil pump, for example, was completely full of sludge) so in practice one can never get rid of it all.

Citroen C3 Picasso - Pros and cons of using oil-change pump? - gordonbennet
There are, however, dead spaces in this (and probably other) engines which an oil drain does not clear. (The casting void behind the oil pump, for example, was completely full of sludge) so in practice one can never get rid of it all.

That sounds like poor design, unusual for Japanese engines which usually drain down fully upon removal of the drain plug.

Citroen C3 Picasso - Pros and cons of using oil-change pump? - madf

Both the Yaris and Jazz drainplugs are at one end of the sump.

SO when draining oil, I jack up the other side of the car a little so ALL the oil flows to that end

Obsession!.

Citroen C3 Picasso - Pros and cons of using oil-change pump? - Andrew-T

SO when draining oil, I jack up the other side of the car a little so ALL the oil flows to that end.

Peugeot sumps usually drain from the rear, ideal for use on ramps.

Citroen C3 Picasso - Pros and cons of using oil-change pump? - edlithgow
There are, however, dead spaces in this (and probably other) engines which an oil drain does not clear. (The casting void behind the oil pump, for example, was completely full of sludge) so in practice one can never get rid of it all.

That sounds like poor design, unusual for Japanese engines which usually drain down fully upon removal of the drain plug.

I wouldn't have known about, or thought of this, if I hadn't stripped the oil pump because of fine ferrous metal settling out of my oil on a long stand.(a couple of months while I was back in the UK). so I have no way of knowing how unusual this void (or the fine ferrous metal, come to that) is.

Similarly, short of completely stripping an engine, I don;t know how one could determine that it had drained down fully.

.I suppose people who completely strip engines for a living (an increasingly rare breed?) would have some idea, but I doubt such voids are completely unique to this engine.

Citroen C3 Picasso - Pros and cons of using oil-change pump? - gordonbennet
Similarly, short of completely stripping an engine, I don;t know how one could determine that it had drained down fully.

I assume the Deisel in my 15 year old Toyota drains fully because fresh oil stays clean for up to 1000 miles, on changing oil on 1.6 Hdi's and BMW 2.0 litre D's, by the time you've driven to the shops you'd never know the oil had been changed by the state of the dipstick.

Citroen C3 Picasso - Pros and cons of using oil-change pump? - edlithgow
Similarly, short of completely stripping an engine, I don;t know how one could determine that it had drained down fully.

I assume the Deisel in my 15 year old Toyota drains fully because fresh oil stays clean for up to 1000 miles, on changing oil on 1.6 Hdi's and BMW 2.0 litre D's, by the time you've driven to the shops you'd never know the oil had been changed by the state of the dipstick.

Seems reasonable in those cases, but perhaps not in this one.

I'd think the exchange with this void-space would have been rather slow, since the join was quite closely fitting, and since otherwise the space would have been flushed cleanish by fresh oil and would not have become sludge-filled.

Any resultant slow discolouration of the bulk oil would thus be difficult or impossible to distinguish from contamination freshly generated by engine operation.

Citroen C3 Picasso - Pros and cons of using oil-change pump? - Mike H

I think it was on your recommendation GB that I fitted one to my old Saab (which I no longer have) about 7 years ago. Sludge in the sump was a well-known problem with the 9-5 if the oil was not changed more regularly than the manufacturer's recommendation, so I had the car on 6000 mile oil & filter changes. This meant every 4 months, so having the drain valve fitted made life a lot easier. Still needed to jack the car up and removing one of the front wheels to take off the undertray, but otherwise straightforward. No hot oil up the sleeve ;-)

Citroen C3 Picasso - Pros and cons of using oil-change pump? - gordonbennet

No hot oil up the sleeve ;-)

Worth fitting just for that reason alone glad it worked out for you, the sump thread on the Scooby is larger than normal, it's like someone's opened the bath tap at hot drain time via the normal plug.

Edited by gordonbennet on 16/10/2020 at 22:32

Citroen C3 Picasso - Pros and cons of using oil-change pump? - Dev's

Thanks everyone for your replies - that's pretty comprehensive!

The drain valve is a nice idea, GordonBennet, but the most awkward part of the job for me is having to get under the car to remove the undertray - I'm trying to avoid 'ground' work altogether :-)

The rest seem to feel a suction pump should be as good as a drain - provided the hose is inserted the right amount. Your results, Gibbo_Wirral, seem a bit disappointing tho' - I wonder why a half-litre remains?

Like you, madf, I'd raise the car slightly unevenly so that the oil made its way to the sump corner with the drain plug, but that raised sump plug hole always annoyed me - one time I went to the hassle of using a small hand syringe pump and made the hose in to a U-bend with a piece of stiff inserted wire, and fed this through so the tip landed in the remaining pool of oil, and sucked out a half-cup-full. Not a lot in the scheme of things, but - man - it's still a bad design!

I'm liking the idea of the pump now! (yes it's slow, Bathtub, but time is what I have...)

Thanks everyone.

Citroen C3 Picasso - Pros and cons of using oil-change pump? - gordonbennet

The drain valve is a nice idea, GordonBennet, but the most awkward part of the job for me is having to get under the car to remove the undertray - I'm trying to avoid 'ground' work altogether :-

Sorry, my mistake, the OE undertray on the Forester and the aftermarket underbody protection on my Toyota have small sections of the tray or bash plate which unclip or unbolt in seconds to allow access.

I keep forgetting other makers do their best to make simple servicing as awkward and expensive as possible for whatever reasons.

Thanks for coming back, let us know how this Lidl jobbie works please.

Edited by gordonbennet on 16/10/2020 at 09:27

Citroen C3 Picasso - Pros and cons of using oil-change pump? - John F

Both the Yaris and Jazz drainplugs are at one end of the sump.SO when draining oil, I jack up the other side of the car a little so ALL the oil flows to that end. Obsession!

Certainly not - so do I! And I also leave to drain for several hours - amazing amount of residual brown goo trickles out leaving the innards as clean as the sides of a sauce bottle. For years I have used a couple of two foot lengths of 4 x 2 to prevent ramp/front panel contact. Our Mk 1 Focus Zetec has a well designed sump plug with integral rubber washer - best I've seen. Although it probably makes little noticeable difference to engine life and performance, I would never use a dipstick pump.

Citroen C3 Picasso - Pros and cons of using oil-change pump? - gordonbennet

Certainly not - so do I! And I also leave to drain for several hours - amazing amount of residual brown goo trickles out leaving the innards as clean as the sides of a sauce bottle.

interesting snippet here for you John, the 3.2 Diesel engine as found in Ford Ranger, it appears once you drain the oil out you have to complete the service (obviously swapping the filter first) and restart the engine within 15 mins or the oil pump can't prime itself.

This was from John Cadogans youtube video, i'm with you in that i like to let it drain for several hours and sometimes overnight, on my Toyota so i can inspect the oil strainer just above the sump plug, i had a fleeting fancy for one of those Rangers given how quickly Ford pick ups depreciate, but that snippet ruled the 3.2 straight out, never heard anything so ridiculous in all me life.

On the subject of sump plugs, Toyota is centre of small (secondary) sump and at the lowest point so drains well, Subaru is slightly off to one side but the sump thread itself is larger bore than typical so oil runs out at a ridiculous rate, hence another reason for the Fumoto valve, saves me a hot oil bath..:-)

Edited by gordonbennet on 16/10/2020 at 10:57

Citroen C3 Picasso - Pros and cons of using oil-change pump? - Andrew-T

<< I also leave to drain for several hours - amazing amount of residual brown goo trickles out >>

Maybe that has something to do with how long you leave your oil in, John ... :-)

Citroen C3 Picasso - Pros and cons of using oil-change pump? - sammy1

If your engine as a sump plug you could always use a flush to clear out any residual goo, however with a pump there would always be the possibility that you could not extract all the flush.

Citroen C3 Picasso - Pros and cons of using oil-change pump? - edlithgow

The drain valve is a nice idea, GordonBennet, but the most awkward part of the job for me is having to get under the car to remove the undertray - I'm trying to avoid 'ground' work altogether :-

Sorry, my mistake, the OE undertray on the Forester and the aftermarket underbody protection on my Toyota have small sections of the tray or bash plate which unclip or unbolt in seconds to allow access.

I keep forgetting other makers do their best to make simple servicing as awkward and expensive as possible for whatever reasons.

Thanks for coming back, let us know how this Lidl jobbie works please.

Easy enough to cut one, I'd have thought.

Citroen C3 Picasso - Pros and cons of using oil-change pump? - gordonbennet

Easy enough to cut one, I'd have thought.

Yes it probably would, and if you set the Fumoto valve up with a short section of flexible pipe semi permanently fitted so during draining the outlet is below the cover a surprisingly small access hole would suffice.

Citroen C3 Picasso - Pros and cons of using oil-change pump? - Andrew-T

<< if you set the Fumoto valve up with a short section of flexible pipe semi permanently fitted so during draining the outlet is below the cover a surprisingly small access hole would suffice. >>

.. but large enough to get at the operating tab somehow !

Citroen C3 Picasso - Pros and cons of using oil-change pump? - gordonbennet

.. but large enough to get at the operating tab somehow !

Goes without saying, unless you have the arms of Mr Tickle and able to reach and flick the lever open from above.

Citroen C3 Picasso - Pros and cons of using oil-change pump? - Dev's

Thanks again everyone.

Just replaced our C3 with a C4... This 2015 model one has a full 'proper' service history so we'll be keeping that going with Citroen for a year or two before I take over things like oil changes again. When I do, it'll be 'pump'! No more scrabbling under a car for things like this if I can help it...

Brake discs and pads are a different matter - these are easy jobs on the Citroen, and access is pretty easy with just one corner lifted at a time. But to have to get under a car just to access an oil plug, nah.

Cheers!

 

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