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Message to Avant - thunderbird

Avant

I do not think your comment calling me a Playground Bully is worthy of a forum moderator and I will be reporting it to the forum owners.

Hopefully you will apologise for what is a needless comment following my helpful comments to the threads OP.

Message to Avant - badbusdriver

There have been quite a few posts recently where you have responded with needless criticism and often in a very demeaning manner. In the case of the polo GTI wheels for example, with no basis whatsoever and with no apparent point other, than to make the OP look foolish. And of course you called into question SLO's knowledge and expertise in another thread, someone who does actually help folk on here and will quite happily give up his time, for those people, to search for possible buys in their area.

If you treated others with a bit of consideration, respect and politeness, (not to mention accepting that your own opinion, like everyone elses, is not neccessarily correct) you'd probably get on much better.

Message to Avant - Trilogy.

Couldn't agree more BBD, you're spot on. And if I ever message Avant I do it correctly method via the moderators, not in public.. I must add it's never to criticise him, he does a brilliant job.

Edited by Trilogy. on 31/07/2020 at 18:04

Message to Avant - badbusdriver

Couldn't agree more BBD, you're spot on. And if I ever message Avant I do it correctly method via the moderators, not in public.. I must add it's never to criticise him, he does a brilliant job.

Yes, i did wonder about the reason for making a public statement out of this in a thread?.

But also struck by the notion that while the OP feels he is due an apology, he clearly doesn't feel that Primus 1, Jack Burnet, and of course SLO, are due one from him, (long overdue in the case of SLO).

Message to Avant - Trilogy.

But also struck by the notion that while the OP feels he is due an apology, he clearly doesn't feel that Primus 1, Jack Burnet, and of course SLO, are due one from him, (long overdue in the case of SLO).

Indeed.

Message to Avant - _ORB_

When I have written to moderators@HJ...

Avant has invariably had the courtesy to reply, and during my recent illness toook the time to email me.

I don't agree with everything that everyone says, I don't always agree with Avant, but he is the moderator and I am a member only

BUT,

A bit more consideration for others would be nicer.

Kindly put the handbags away!

Message to Avant - KB.

Dito the above.

I, too, have once or twice emailed Avant privately and he has responded in a prompt and polite manner. A true gentleman worthy of the term gentleman. If thunderbird had something on his mind he should have kept it private.

To post publically in the manner that we all saw was out of order.

And, yes, I too have squirmed at some of thunderbird's bad manners.

An apology is called for, thunderbird.

Message to Avant - sammy1

When I first found this forum quite a few years back I had a problem with a misfire on my VRS. Your member Skidpan it was gave me technical details regarding fuel trims to be expected when plugging in the diagnostics. To cut along story short with the information he provided I was able to go to Skoda and insist they checked the injector that they had fitted some months back. Turns out that there are some six different ones across the range and they had fitted the wrong one. The likes of a tech like Skidpan if he had faults is missed on here.

As regards thunderbird if he has been a bit short with some queries he has not resorted to insults and language as far as I have observed.

Has to myself I have had a few critical comments deleted without reason given, questioning recently the authenticity of some questions which in my opinion have been quite stupid in my opinion and perhaps even generated by the site itself, so can relate to others impatience in answers.

As to the moderator well there can be to much of the old pals act as demonstrated here with some comments.

This is an adult forum so it takes all sorts and as long as the thing is kept polite lets continue to enjoy it and be educated.

Message to Avant - Gibbo_Wirral

When I first found this forum quite a few years back I had a problem with a misfire on my VRS. Your member Skidpan it was gave me technical details regarding fuel trims to be expected when plugging in the diagnostics. To cut along story short with the information he provided I was able to go to Skoda and insist they checked the injector that they had fitted some months back. Turns out that there are some six different ones across the range and they had fitted the wrong one. The likes of a tech like Skidpan if he had faults is missed on here.

Skidpan was very much Marmite. Although he had a lot of technical knowledge he had no time for fuel additives and certainly made his feelings about people who use them known, and was also quite rude and offensive.

Message to Avant - Andrew-T

Can't see much reason for the original post, nor much reason to comment on it, so I won't. :-)

Message to Avant - Zippy123

Can't see much reason for the original post, nor much reason to comment on it, so I won't. :-)

+1 for Avant

Message to Avant - paul 1963

Probably the silliest post ever, Thunderbird, surely the correct way would have to messaged Avant privately?

You've achieved nothing by going public apart from making yourself look stupid.

Edited by paul 1963 on 01/08/2020 at 06:53

Message to Avant - SLO76
I’ll offer my support to Avant here. I think he does a great job of keeping our widely ranging regulars in some kind of order. We all get hot under the collar, I’m prone to it myself but politeness costs nothing and is more likely to gather support for ones opinion.

I’m no longer going to allow myself to be drawn into arguments over my comments. I’m not talking about expecting all to agree, that would be boring but if I sense that someone is just looking for a fight then I’ll refuse to partake in that thread any further. I get enough of that from darling wife.

Message to Avant - Trilogy.

SLO, nowadays I try to make a post and not get drawn into an argument, sometimes easier said than done.

Message to Avant - SLO76

SLO, nowadays I try to make a post and not get drawn into an argument, sometimes easier said than done.

Truth
Message to Avant - John F
I’ll offer my support to Avant here. I think he does a great job of keeping our widely ranging regulars in some kind of order. .......politeness costs nothing and is more likely to gather support for ones opinion.

Agreed. Nice to see you back, SLO76 - I trust your skin is now approaching the thickness of my hoary old carapace ;-)

Message to Avant - MGspannerman

There is a considerable degree of schadenfreude when somebody makes such an undoubted t1t of themselves in a forum. I have no idea what the original spat was about, the reference to the playground seems entirely in context though. Avant is a thoroughly sound fellow, more power to his elbow I say! As for the OP, a big, wet, slobbery raspberry to you!

Message to Avant - sammy1

The original spat was about the manner of reply to some questions on the forum in the opinion of some members, I myself have been maybe been short or sarcastic with some "silly" questions. Below is an example from another forum member today which some may deem sarcastic and unhelpful but perhaps a natural reaction to an incomplete query!

My crystal ball is on holiday this month . Any tests carried out on the electrical systems?

In other words A storm in a teacup!

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Message to Avant - Avant

Thank you so much, all of you, for your support - particularly as you could justifiably have criticised me for not being firm enough with the disparaging comments which can be seen as bullying, even if in a mild form and not done deliberately.

It's a bit shaming, isn't it, when the OP on the thread about licence points is moved to say:

'I now know why some people are reluctant to post on here.'

Sammy, I agree that it often is a storm in a teacup, in the eyes of regulars who are used to exchanges on forums. But many of our questioners are new to it, and we just need to be kind....as nearly everyone is on here.

I can of course assure you that I didn't, and won't, refer to anyone specifically by name or forum name as a bully.

I'm a volunteer, and I don't have to do this - but I enjoy it, and it's good to be able to do something for the community: quite a sizeable one judging by the number of 'views' shown by each thread. Let's make sure we keep it sizeable.

Message to Avant - expat

I must agree with all the other forum members who have praised Avant's moderation. It has always been very well and tactfully done. It is one of the things which make this forum so valuable.

The problem with internet forums is that it is too easy to reply to a post hastily in a way that you would never do if you were talking to a person face to face. Or if you did reply like that in a public bar you could well be asked to leave.

Like other posters I am glad to see SLO returning. His posts were always informative and often amusing.

Message to Avant - Trilogy.

I can of course assure you that I didn't, and won't, refer to anyone specifically by name or forum name as a bully.

Indeed you didn't. :-)

Message to Avant - primus 1

I was always told there’s no such thing as a stupid question, just stupid answers, I posted something because I didn’t know the answer, I thought I would ask on here as there are many helpful people who will always have a solution, I don’t post too often because of some of the sarcastic replies other posters have to put up with, I suppose it’s human nature, not to ask a question because you don’t want to appear stupid, ( think back to your school days, mine anyway), I suppose it’s a fine line between banter and bullying, my philosophy is if you can’t help with a question then don’t post, or at least don’t ridicule or belittle the op for posting a question they don’t know the answer to

Message to Avant - Andrew-T

It's a bit shaming, isn't it, when the OP on the thread about licence points is moved to say:

'I now know why some people are reluctant to post on here.'

Because I was rather surprised at the turn this thread has taken, I revisited the licence-points thread. I remember thinking that T-bird's early put-down was a little unnecessary, but fairly mild by today's social-media standards, so not worth special comment. I am starting to wonder if the current vogue for virtue signalling may be infecting our little world.

i always steer clear of invective, such as using words like 'stupid' or 'idiot' as they are rarely useful and almost guaranteed (and often intended) to cause offence. But I don't remember seeing much of that lately on here.

Message to Avant - Trilogy.

Andrew-T, T-bird was also unnecessarily disrespectful of SLO's knowledge/background/experience in another thread.

Message to Avant - mcb100
And I just loved being accused of being a spreader of untruths...
Message to Avant - Avant

"I was always told there’s no such thing as a stupid question..."

Absolutely right, Primus. My career was in training and I was forever saying that so that people weren't reluctant to ask.

Andrew T - I do take your point and I'm happy to debate it. But whereas some of our threads are of a chat-room nature - and that's great - this forum is a bit more than that. One of its purposes is for people, some of them new to us and possibly to forums in general, to be able to ask any question they like and get a helpful, constructive answer.

Occasionally we need to speak plainly, e.g. "I have 12 points on my licence. How can I get round an automatic ban?" - but even then we can be civil.

I have to imagine myself asking a question on a gardening forum (we have a quite a big garden but all I'm good at is mowing and pruning). I never have, and will probably never have the courage to. I'd like our forum to be a place where it doesn't need courage.

Message to Avant - Engineer Andy
I have to imagine myself asking a question on a gardening forum (we have a quite a big garden but all I'm good at is mowing and pruning). I never have, and will probably never have the courage to. I'd like our forum to be a place where it doesn't need courage.

I don't see why not - I thought that was what the 'General Discussion' (non monotring) part of the Backroom was for - and not just the heavy political stuff, which from time to time it can be.

It would be nice for other topics to be discussed, and I think it would also foster better relations between Backroomers and potential ones, who might feel intimidated or put off by the political discussions or 'heated debate' about more technical issues.

It's not as though there's loads of big news on the car world front at the moment, other than likely cuts to firms etc.

Some non-contentious 'good news' or at least something to take our minds off more depressing news events would be a welcome change - many people currently cannot properly socialise with their group of friends and family (especially older ones) and rely on forums for a modicum of normality / social interraction with others.

I'm sure many of us have gone a bit stir-crazy over the past few months (especially those having to fully shield) - sometimes resulting in some being far more tetchy or depressed of late, something brought home to me as my elderly uncle has been suffering considerably from the latter, so much so that it was initially though was due to some mini strokes.

A bit of chat / shooting the breeze on other issues mind help many of us. One chap I discuss issues etc elsewhere owns a pub not that far from me, so I may try and pop in once I've got my bicycle back in working order - a nice day out (and good exercise) and helping a (well-regarded locally) independent pub owner whose opinion I respect.

Message to Avant - concrete

A few points to make. Firstly that IMHO Avant does a sterling job and I appreciate that very much. Secondly, some answers to threads can be abrupt or peremptory and it is usually the same members. However if we cannot tolerate the way someone expresses themselves, however curtly, then we would not have much discussion. Even though curt, sometimes the remarks are correct or meant well and what is criticism to one, is not to another. Personally I try to read through any post or replies I make to ensure they mean the reader what they mean to me. I have been caught out when dashing off a quick reply before fully engaging brain, and the members are correct to point that out, kindly I hope.

Finally, maybe we can take advice from the Hippocratic oath. "Firstly, do no harm" Not a bad watch phrase to keep in mind. Making a situation worse with unwanted criticism when the OP probably already feels the pangs of regret is no help whatsoever. Neither is washing dirty linen in public. There is a process for complaint which it is advisable to follow.

Cheers Concrete

Message to Avant - Jamie3141

Yes, unfortunately, you've stepped on the paws of one or two old dogs that have little to do with their time but throw their weight around in an online forum. Incredibly sad.

I've also been shouted down for no real reason. The replies to my post were aggressive, petulant and condescending. When I retaliated by highlighting this, the tables were turned and because I was a new member it was, of course, a case of me being a trouble maker... and so ensued endless angry diatribes filled with ad hominem attacks---all of which went unnoticed, free from any moderation. You'll note similar levels of hypocrisy here: you are openly criticised on a public forum, however, you (MUST!) handle this privately. Right... Well, let's distribute the freedom to criticise equitably; if whoever dished the criticism did it in public, then so must you have the right to criticise them in public. Unless of course, they're a 'distinguished' member, then everything must be done privately. You'd be correct to say that at times this place is as conspiratorial as a rather large tax-exempt institution accused of mishandling the innocence of children.

If I'm not mistaken (and I do not care enough to go back and look) Avant was relatively critical of my position and (shockingly ;)...) stuck up for all of the old dogs like they do for him. I was the trouble maker for engaging in precisely the same behaviour that was inflicted upon me. The BR seems to me to be essentially a massive, mutual back-rubbing exercise for men over 40. This is something that doesn't really interest me.

Avant did take a moment to apologise (whilst maintaining his position that I was in the wrong) but only to try to understand how I came to be in possession of 'private' user information.

My recommendation is to simply go to a more welcoming forum---or at least one that you gel with. There are plenty around and many receive more regular postings than HJ's :)

Edited by Jamie3141 on 02/08/2020 at 16:35

Message to Avant - _ORB_

I had a smile a few years ago when the reply i got about an incorrect lubricant used on an Oil change.

Still makes me smile..

Did you open the filler cap and sniff knowingly, like a wine expert? Or was the sound of the engine ever so subtly different?

But, I do have a sense of humour so I let it pass,

Sometimes people try to make a "funny" remark and it comes out wrong to others.

But, as i have done the same, sorry from me..

Message to Avant - Andrew-T

... you are openly criticised on a public forum, however, you (MUST!) handle this privately. Right... Well, let's distribute the freedom to criticise equitably; if whoever dished the criticism did it in public, then so must you have the right to criticise them in public.

Surely it is inconsistent to object to certain behaviour and then ask to continue it ? That's just Can't beat 'em so join 'em. Mods have the difficult task of deciding what oversteps the bounds of propriety - which itself presumes that we all agree where those are. The answer is not to permit unpleasant slanging matches to develop, surely ?

Message to Avant - Avant

"The BR seems to me to be essentially a massive, mutual back-rubbing exercise for men over 40."

I won't rise to this - and everybody else please don't - but just to assure you that age and gender are never disclosed on this forum. We are mostly male, but only because a higher proportion of men than women is interested in cars and motoring.

We'd very much like some more female members. Some come on to the forum to ask a question, but go away again when it's been answered.

(I did know a female Jamie once - a charming girl.)

Message to Avant - Andrew-T

just to assure you that age and gender are never disclosed on this forum. We are mostly male, but only because a higher proportion of men than women is interested in cars and motoring.

Many of us give away our ages by revealing memories from the seventies or even sixties, Avant, so conclusions are easily drawn, perhaps only approximate :-)

Message to Avant - Jamie3141

That's true. If I had to hazard a guess I'd assume the average age was >40 to be honest. Likely 50-60.

Message to Avant - groaver

We'd very much like some more female members. Some come on to the forum to ask a question, but go away again when it's been answered.

(I did know a female Jamie once - a charming girl.)

Yes there's an abundance of male members here. ;-)

Message to Avant - _ORB_

Yes there's an abundance of male members here. ;-)

So what!

I would happily say that I have always felt welcome as a Caucasian mixed european mixed religious background.(now old) male.

Are we now going to go down the route of desieing a percentage of BAME/LGBT and other modern acronyms otherwise we wouldn't be "inclusive?

Everyone is welcome and hopefullywill be tolerant of this old codger too.

Ocasionally some of my thoughts are those of swmbo who has several thousand unread emails in her inbox...so is a bit busy trying to read the important ones.

Edited by _ORB_ on 03/08/2020 at 14:16

Message to Avant - RT

Yes there's an abundance of male members here. ;-)

So what!

I would happily say that I have always felt welcome as a Caucasian mixed european mixed religious background.(now old) male.

Are we now going to go down the route of desieing a percentage of BAME/LGBT and other modern acronyms otherwise we wouldn't be "inclusive?

Everyone is welcome and hopefullywill be tolerant of this old codger too.

Ocasionally some of my thoughts are those of swmbo who has several thousand unread emails in her inbox...so is a bit busy trying to read the important ones.

+1

One of the benefits of internet forums is that no-one can see what gender the poster is, or what age, ethnic background, social status or political opinion - so no profiling.

Message to Avant - groaver

I hoped my lack of subtlety was transparent.

I'm not going to spell out my tasteless joke on the thread, ORB!

Message to Avant - 72 dudes

Yes there's an abundance of male members here. ;-)

So what!

I would happily say that I have always felt welcome as a Caucasian mixed european mixed religious background.(now old) male.

Are we now going to go down the route of desieing a percentage of BAME/LGBT and other modern acronyms otherwise we wouldn't be "inclusive?

Everyone is welcome and hopefullywill be tolerant of this old codger too.

Ocasionally some of my thoughts are those of swmbo who has several thousand unread emails in her inbox...so is a bit busy trying to read the important ones.

Oh ORB, you missed groaver's winky face! Male members as in cockwombles

Message to Avant - _ORB_

Oh ORB, you missed groaver's winky face! Male members as in cockwombles

=============================

Oh no I didn't!

Message to Avant - concrete

It does not enter my thinking when reading or replying to a post what colour,race,creed or gender the OP is. It is all transparent, or should be. We also had a debate some time ago regarding the differing usage of grammar, spelling, syntax etc etc. It really matters not as long as the point is made and we all 'get it'.

Bobbin Threadbare was last regular female member I can recall. Pity she is no longer participating, her comments were very worthwhile. As for male members, well quite!!

I think in general that forum such as ours do not appeal to younger people. Our approach to life in general and motoring in particular was formed in the dim and distant past and although a lot have kept up to date with the technology, I think we would be perceived as old fashioned by younger people. Not a bad thing at all IMHO, in some ways the old ways are still the best.

Cheers Concrete

Message to Avant - sammy1

I think in general that forum such as ours do not appeal to younger people.

No but a lot of the younger generation drive your older cars fiesta corsa and the like and come running to dad or something like this forum when things go wrong. Equally I go running to them when the laptop or mobile is playing up.

 

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