Underpowered Motas vs Kyoto - Guy Lacey
I've just has the "pleasure" of a new Renault Laguna to drive approx 1000 miles over the past 3 days. Trouble is, Fiona in purchasing hired me a 1.6 16V. In a car of that size and with the air con and all the toys - it drove like an absolute dog and drank fuel like G.Lacey on the Natch last Saturday night after Somerset had pulled the rug out from under Warwickshire CCC!!

Is this the failing of the Company Car Tax mechanism in place now that encourages small engined yet "rep" sized cars to in order to achieve the lowest feasible tax band. IMHO, this will just lead to scores of underpowered but thrashed and therefore, thirsty rep-mobiles - doesn't this go against the principles of the tax - i.e. Kyoto? Any car can be driven steadily and release minimal CO2 etc in line with its engine size but out on the open road it all becomes a joke.

As an example, I always remember the Rover 216 Coupe being a real dog and thirsty to boot whereas the adequately powered 220 Coupe was a pleasure to drive and more economical.

As an aside - the credit card keyless system on the Laguna - WOW! (lots to go wrong tho?)
Re: Underpowered Motas vs Kyoto - Michael
get a tdi - plenty of torque, a better drive and low co2 to boot.
Re: Underpowered Motas vs Kyoto - Andy
But much higher particulate and nitrobenzanthrone outputs. It is diesels that are to blame for the poor air quality in our town centres, but our daft government wants us all to use buses, which use really dirty old diesels.
Re: Underpowered Motas vs Kyoto - Andy Bairsto
90% of air polution in central London comes from buses and taxis Government figures also traffic in London has actually decreased over the last ten years also Gonernment figures .Even clean diesels are smog makers where as a really good lean burn petrol you could almost breath the exhaust fumes.I cannot see one advantage in running a modern diesel in the UK the fuel is expensive unless you use heating oil.service cost are higher ,and the purchase price is higher.I myself have a diesel in Germany but I run on bio diesel which is half the price of petrol the down side is you pay higher road tax for diesel motors.But they say even here you must do at least 100000km to make economic sense.All the head to head tests by Auto Bild and tha ADAC(AA) the petrol model has come out on top for overall economy.
regards Andy Bairsto
Re: Underpowered Motas vs Kyoto - Michael
Standby for the "new generation diesel" side of the story (not the old diesel story which is fairly close to your description). I can't remember the details but someone else will. Incidentally, please don't breath the exhaust fumes of the petrol car. They really are not that clean.
Re: Underpowered Motas vs Kyoto - bogush
Ahhhhhhhhhhh

But are they cleaner than the bus fumes taken in and scrubbed ? !
Power bands and diesels. - D J Woollard
Guy is right.

Any car that is potentially economical but needs canning to stay up with traffic flows is unrewarding to drive and under such conditions often not economical. They are only going to reach impressive figures when nursed along in an unrealistic manner.

Often a nippy car that finds you travelling faster than expected allows you to ease off and get good economy.

The Mk1/Mk2 Golf GTi are proof of that. Quick when you want and "Uno like" consumption if driven with restraint.

My 1.9TD Xantia suits my driving style and the roads it is used on. For this reason the fuel consumption is fine. I do know others who work them hard outside of the optimum power band, still finding them slow, and get the fuel consumption down to the mid 30s. They could do better with a 1.8/2.0 petrol, and enjoy it more.

Can't agree with Andy B about running diesels in the UK.

In this area diesel fuel is cheaper than unleaded. Buying a car secondhand the extra cost of a diesel is small, not much different to having an LX compared with SX or metallic paint. If you buy the diesel with higher miles often the price can be the same. Higher service costs?? Oil and filter £15 every 6000. Fuel/air filters and fresh coolant two yearly £20 extra. New timing belt and glow plugs at about 50,000mls for another £35. OK these are parts only for DIY but you get the point. And if you get a pre 1997 then often no ECU to give a load of stupid driveability problems. On shorter runs the diesel doesn't wash the bores with petrol and poison the cat. As long as the battery is decent they often start better when left out in town throughout the winter, no ign damp start problems.

Everything here is diesel now, Tractor/Land Rover/Three TD Citroens. Frankly we've never had such low running costs. The petrol for a weeks lawn mowing costs as much as three days car use!

David
Re: Power bands and diesels. - Ian Cook
I couldn't agree with David more. I've been running diesels exclusively since 1994 and had 6 Peugeot/Citroen indirect models (2 car family) and now have an HDi Xantia.

Servicing costs on a DIY basis are minimal. One thing David didn't mention was how long the exhaust systems last. I haven't replaced one in 7 years (all the vehicles with service history showing no replacements) with mileages approaching 100K.

As I've said before: if someone came along and said "I've invented this new fuel called petrol: it is highly flammable, evaporates, needs these 30,000 volt elctric thingies and wires all round the engine bay, and they get damp, and they cause the car to splutter on a cold morning, and they need an expensive cat, and you mustn't have more than 2 x 2 gallon tins of it in your garage" - well, it wouldn't catch on, would it?
Re: Power bands and diesels. - Alvin Booth
Andy,
I think your'e going to be well outvoted on this.
Reading the comments of some of the leading developement Engineers from Germany!!!!! They are saying that diesel is the fuel of the future and future innovations will come from this fuel and not petrol.
As regards servicing costs Andy I'm not sure where you are coming from on this one. My Vectra has the same servicing requirements as for the petrol version with the additional bonus of a chain driven camshaft.
And of course you have to remember the logevity of a diesel engine compared to petrol and also re-sale value.
As regards pollution the jury is still out on this one. I have seen and read of different experts giving comletely contrary views on this subject.
One classic one was that a few drops of petrol was more carciogenic than a tanker load of diesel.
A old chap on local radio the other day was saying he spent his whole working life in a bus repair garage in Derby starting there well over 50 years ago. He said there was no ventilation and the garage was always full of diesel smoke from running engines. He stated that he never knew of any mechanics who had ever suffered from bronchial or similar ailments.
And the toxic cloud hanging over Los Angeles is from petrol vehicles.
makes you think Andy,
regards
Alvin
Re: Power bands and diesels. - Stuart B
Alvin wrote
"As regards pollution the jury is still out on this one. I have seen and read of different experts giving comletely contrary views on this subject.
One classic one was that a few drops of petrol was more carciogenic than a tanker load of diesel.
A old chap on local radio the other day was saying he spent his whole working life in a bus repair garage in Derby starting there well over 50 years ago. He said there was no ventilation and the garage was always full of diesel smoke from running engines. He stated that he never knew of any mechanics who had ever suffered from bronchial or similar ailments."

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