Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - Meteiro

My wife's 308 is currently in a very poorly state at our dealer, following a compression problem in middle cylinder that means new engine is needed (diagnostics continue...)

Car is not yet 4 years old and under 50k, always serviced at same main dealer and still has a little extended warranty left, so am hopeful we'll get the issue resolved. The issue is that my wife has lost all faith in the vehicle (we've had a lot of problems over the years) and is pushing me to find a replacement. I sympathise with her, but without adding a lot of money that's either at a much higher mileage, much older, or more likely both (plus we wouldn't know what we'd be inheriting from the last owner).

I'd look at a 59/60 plate Civic 1.8 and put it through a major service if we do change.

Assuming a new engine is fitted, would you keep it or get rid of it?

My main concern is that in only a couple of years we'll be right back here with another engine failure but out of warranty and, effectively, up a certain creek without a certain paddle.

Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - thunderbird

I'd look at a 59/60 plate Civic 1.8 and put it through a major service if we do change.

but without adding a lot of money that's either at a much higher mileage, much older, or more likely both (plus we wouldn't know what we'd be inheriting from the last owner).

Just as you say. Changing a 4 year old car that has hopefully been fixed for a 9 year old unknown car would be total madness.

The fan boys on here will no doubt tell you that these Hondas are bullet proof but in 9 years who knows what horrors are hidden. At this age cars are normally sold because they are becoming money pits.

Hold onto the Peugeot. You still have warranty left so use it after its been fixed and see if its reliable. If it is keep it, if its not you should have saved some money and with the help of a loan get a new car.

Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - SLO76
First failure I’ve heard of with this engine so maybe they’re not as good as we thought. As long as it has a full main dealer history and it has an extended manufacturer warranty then you should be fine. Let them fix it and keep it until you can afford to upgrade. It makes no sense to downgrade to a much older car.

If you can put some money in the pot then a used Honda Civic, Toyota Auris or Mazda 3 petrol would make a good choice but again I’d only buy if you’ve the money to get a newer example. When you’re downgrading at a dealer you tend to get a poor part exchange price and 308’s are already terrible at holding their value.
Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - thunderbird
First failure I’ve heard of with this engine so maybe they’re not as good as we thought.

Be realistic. Even your beloved Honda's have occasional failures and I would suspect far more of these 1.2 engines have been sold in the UK in various Peugeot's, Citroen's and Vauxhall's (possibly more brands?) than Honda have sold cars in the UK in total.

Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - SLO76
First failure I’ve heard of with this engine so maybe they’re not as good as we thought.

Be realistic. Even your beloved Honda's have occasional failures and I would suspect far more of these 1.2 engines have been sold in the UK in various Peugeot's, Citroen's and Vauxhall's (possibly more brands?) than Honda have sold cars in the UK in total.

Yup, it’s certainly rare though and usually due to neglect but you can’t condemn an engine on one failure. It’s still a new design however and few have achieved high mileages, this is one of the rare examples with over 50k and here it is in the bin. It would be interesting to see it stripped down and to analyse that service record. Someone might have simply made a mistake either in build or a mechanic has put the wrong oil in.
Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - craig-pd130

Reports of spark plugs breaking and causing these problems, noted here from earlier this year:

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/127907/puegeot-2008--

Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - Brit_in_Germany

HJ wrote it up under the 2008:

www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/peugeot/2008-2013/go.../

Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - Meteiro

From many conversations and much research, looks like some weaknesses MAY be there on early 1.2 puretech engines. Timing belt not up to job on early ones but now much stronger. And LSPI may be an issue (better after later updates to ECU).

I don't know how true any of that is, and our saga is ongoing, but there is minimal carbon build up so whatever has caused the issue it's not a 'gunked' engine. Suspected manufacturing defect. Will keep all informed in case it helps someone else.

And 100% agree with all posters that it's nonsensical to change. We will keep hold of the car once it is back up and running!

Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - SENIORA

From many conversations and much research, looks like some weaknesses MAY be there on early 1.2 puretech engines. Timing belt not up to job on early ones but now much stronger. And LSPI may be an issue (better after later updates to ECU).

I don't know how true any of that is, and our saga is ongoing, but there is minimal carbon build up so whatever has caused the issue it's not a 'gunked' engine. Suspected manufacturing defect. Will keep all informed in case it helps someone else.

And 100% agree with all posters that it's nonsensical to change. We will keep hold of the car once it is back up and running!

I'd look at a 59/60 plate Civic 1.8 and put it through a major service if we do change.

Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - Lee Power

The Puretech engine is very reliable providing you remember the following.

Its direct fuel injection so it will coke up the back of the inlet valves if always lightly driven at low rpm, this also causes oil consumption past the valve stem oil seals - they hate trundling about town at low rpm.

It needs the correct PSA B71 2312 spec oil.

They also run best on Shell V Power.

I have friends one with a 208 Puretech 110 & another with a 308 Puretech 130, both have had low oil warning & required top up between servicing.

My own 308 Puretech 130 doesnt use any oil between services.

The only real difference is mine gets exercised access the whole rev range once up to temperature & theres dont ever get near the red line.

Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - Meteiro

These engines are a hoot, and super economical even driving with a bit of enthusiasm! We keep (kept) it well exercised.

Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - Ethan Edwards

Is it the puretech 1.2 engine fitted by Renault Nissan into the Qashqai? That appears to have less than a stellar reputation as well.

Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - carl233

These low capacity units with significant HP being provided are not going to last as long as lightly stressed larger units. Small capacity highly stressed engines are simply from an engineering standpoint a different beast than a naturally aspirated 1.8 or 2.0 unit. Many 1.8 units such as the Zetec-e from Ford have done well over 250k miles I am aware of one with 400k my own personal vehicle has 264k miles. These smaller capacity units cannot replicate this and owners should be aware.

Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - Terry W

I recently acquired a 2018 308 auto (8 speed) with 130bhp Puretech.

Trade in was a 2011 Octavia 14TSI owned from new with 120k on the clock. Expenditure on the car was close to zero bar service items, although I suspect this was about to change.

50k on a four year old car is not high - unlikely to be a manufacturing fault after 4 years, more likely wrong oil or servicing error.

The performance of the Peugeot is very similar to the Octavia - acceleration, speed, mpg. It also seems very high geared - 8th only kicks in at about 60mph and on the motorway rarely exceeds 2500 rpm. So giving the engine a few revs to clear any carbon build up would need to take manual control.

As an aside, performance is very similar to a 2.0L about 20 years ago - except for mpg which would have been 30-35 at best. However I do wonder whether the higher stresses in a smaller 3 cylinder engine are offset by far higher manufacturing tolerances today.

Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - Ethan Edwards

Mileage isnt as clear cut an issue as you might suppose. An engine has got to be more used up by short journeys, traffic light grand prix starts city motoring etc. Contrast with one doing motorway miles. Small capacity petrol turbos will surely be ok when mostly used for motorway cruising.

Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - Meteiro

Quick update, it is a indeed a manufacturing defect in this instance. No carbon in the engine, otherwise in great condition. Oil correct, etc.

Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - Avant

I can understand your wife losing faith in this car. Best to flog it - but only when you've saved enough to buy something younger rather than older. A new-shape Civic perhaps - that's 2017 onwards: depending on the use she puts it to, the 1.0 engine might well be enough.

Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - badbusdriver

Is it the puretech 1.2 engine fitted by Renault Nissan into the Qashqai? That appears to have less than a stellar reputation as well.

No, seperate companies, different engines. The PSA engine in question is a 3 cyl, the Renault/Nissan unit is a 4cyl.

Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - daveyK_UK

Is it the puretech 1.2 engine fitted by Renault Nissan into the Qashqai? That appears to have less than a stellar reputation as well.

No, seperate companies, different engines. The PSA engine in question is a 3 cyl, the Renault/Nissan unit is a 4cyl.

The Renault/Dacia/Nissan unit is junk The Peugeot/Citroen/Vauxhall unit is brilliant, rare to read of any problems. PSA generally upgrade their engines as they learn of any issues for example the late 1.6 diesel was upgraded numerous times and changed from the diesel of death into a unit capable of mega miles.
Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - Meteiro

Just to tie this off completely, compression test revealed low compression in middle cylinder. New engine 90% goodwill including labour from Peugeot and 10% from dealer, settling full amount. Can't argue with that, and the dealer in particular has been exceptional.

Car is driving better than ever before!

Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - sandy56

GREAT NEWS!

Thanks for updating us. Good to hear of a car manufacturer doing the "right thing".

Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - John F

Yes, thanks for the update. The Puretech 1.2/EAT6 up to two years old is my powertrain of choice to replace our ancient Focus auto estate which we are handing over to a son. Now the body choice is between a Vauxhall Crossland and a Peugeot 2008. Any opinions to help choose between the two? I've driven both and, contrary to autopress opinion, found the Crossland more comfortable, but Mrs F likes the 2008 better.

Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - SLO76
Both essentially the same motor under the skin John so it’s down to personal preference really but for longterm ownership I’d rather have a Honda HRV even if it’s a bit older for the money, it’ll still be running years after the PSA designs are baked bean cans.
Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - badbusdriver

The Puretech 1.2/EAT6 up to two years old is my powertrain of choice to replace our ancient Focus auto estate which we are handing over to a son. Now the body choice is between a Vauxhall Crossland and a Peugeot 2008. Any opinions to help choose between the two? I've driven both and, contrary to autopress opinion, found the Crossland more comfortable, but Mrs F likes the 2008 better.

Going by what i have read about the Crossland X, it seems to be criticised for noise rather than comfort. But if you have tried both cars and didn't find the Vauxhall unduly noisy, as SLO says, go with personal preference.

Worth bearing in mind though, that a new 2008 is iminent, so there may be some good deals on the outgoing model?

Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - Avant

The 2008 has the heating and AC controlled by the touchscreen, whuch I think is potentially dangerous. If the Crossland has proper rotary switches, that would sway it for me.

Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - Lee Power

As a 308 owner I find the touchscreen controls perfectly fine.

As for the climate control, set it to AUTO & just adjust the temperature if / when needed, there is no need to go fiddling about with the individual climate control settings after your initial first set up once you have purchased the car.

Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - badbusdriver

The 2008 has the heating and AC controlled by the touchscreen, whuch I think is potentially dangerous.

No it doesn't. Lower spec cars have rotary controls, and higher spec versions have climate, but both are seperate from touchscreen,

www.perrys.co.uk/static/images/unity/default/templ...g

As for the climate control, set it to AUTO & just adjust the temperature if / when needed, there is no need to go fiddling about with the individual climate control settings after your initial first set up once you have purchased the car.

In an ideal world maybe, but in real life, especially with a family, that isn't really viable. Having said that, i'd be willing to accept the possibility that after a period of getting used to it, it may become easier and therefore less potentially hazardous to adjust the settings on the move.

Still much more sensible to have seperate controls though.

Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - Chris M

Not sure Wilko sell oil suitable for the Puretech engine John F, although they may in 5 years time when it's due a service.

;)

Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - Avant

Thanks BBD - I stand corrected. I was assuming it was like many other Peugeots. This is probably an older design: we'll have to see what the new 2008 looks like.

Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - badbusdriver

Thanks BBD - I stand corrected. I was assuming it was like many other Peugeots. This is probably an older design: we'll have to see what the new 2008 looks like.

Already checked Avant, walkround interior and exterior video's are available on Youtube. From what i can see, while there are specific physical buttons for demist and a/c, temperature and fan speed seem to be controlled on the touchscreen :-(

Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - John F

Worth bearing in mind though, that a new 2008 is iminent, so there may be some good deals on the outgoing model?

Thanks for this useful info - I feel a bargain coming on! We're not bothered about either knobs or touchscreens for bells and whistles controls, we'll adapt to whatever is supplied. In any case I usually look for a top spec when finally decided on model - e,g, 'allure ultimate' or somesuch. Sadly, Wilko do not appear to do cheap 0-30 oil yet.

Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - Lee Power

Sadly, Wilko do not appear to do cheap 0-30 oil yet.

The 0w 30 part isnt important, the car manufacturer approval is.

As a Puretech 130 owner unless the oil meets PSA B71 2312 it wouldn't be going in the engine.

Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - barney100

Seems to me the engine size to car size is smaller in many cases. I was given an XC90 while my V70 was fixed. The new XC90 had a 2 litre diesel and V70 has a 2.4 diesel. The XC90 didn't hang about but it's an awfully large car for 2 litres, it must put strain on the unit. Maybe modern engines are just better?

Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - badbusdriver

Seems to me the engine size to car size is smaller in many cases. I was given an XC90 while my V70 was fixed. The new XC90 had a 2 litre diesel and V70 has a 2.4 diesel. The XC90 didn't hang about but it's an awfully large car for 2 litres, it must put strain on the unit. Maybe modern engines are just better?

The least powerful 2.0 diesel in the current XC90 makes 190bhp and 295lb/ft of torque from 1750-2500rpm.

The least powerful 2.4 diesel in the (2013-2016) V70 makes 163bhp and 310lb/ft of torque from 1500-2500rpm.

Is the 2.0 better?. In terms of emissions?, yes, without a doubt. Economy?, on paper anyway, the 2.0 will manage more mpg though i suspect in real life, the gap may not be that big. Reliability?, i'm not sure i'd put a lot of faith in the new engine, whereas the old one is known to be extremely sturdy, reliable, and able to cover truly huge mileage.

So, i guess it depends on your point of view, but in mine, i'd say the 2.4 is the better engine.

Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - barney100

V70 gross weight ~2299kg

XC90 gross weight ~ 2629kg

I don't fully understand the implications of the power to weight ratio but would guess the smaller engaged heavier XC90 engine is working much harder. Does this affect the longterm life of a unit?

Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - badbusdriver

I don't fully understand the implications of the power to weight ratio but would guess the smaller engaged heavier XC90 engine is working much harder. Does this affect the longterm life of a unit?

Power to weight ratio is more useful for indicating of how fast a car might 'feel' on the road. For example, if (for ease of illustration) one car has 100bhp and another has 150bhp, how can they feel equally quick on the road?. The first one weighs a ton, the second weighs 1.5 tons, so power to weight ratio is the same.

How that ties into reliability is a different kettle of fish, but essentially, if an engine is having to work harder more of the time, then, in theory anyway, its long term reliability will be compromosed. Of course there are other variables, such as whether or not the engine is well designed and engineered, but also things like gearing. If the gearing has been properly thought out, the smaller engine shouldn't be put under too much strain, but these days, many cars have ridiculously long gearing to help artificially boost the on paper economy, especially with the now outdated (NEDC) testing regime which i believe took place indoors on a rolling road!. Also, how the car is driven will have an impact, if a car is constantly being thrashed, the reliability can suffer.

But as for your two figures, firstly, power to weight would generally be taken on the cars kerb weight as opposed to gross weight. But, using my figures for the least powerful diesel variant, the XC90 is making 72bhp per ton with the V70 on 71bhp per ton. So from that point of view, the XC90 (in theory) is working no harder than the V70 fully laden.

I'd still say the V70 would be the better choice for long term reliability, but not solely because of the engine.

Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - Meteiro

Just to add in reply to John F's note I had until recently an Insignia and spent a little time at my local dealer (who were brilliant, as an aside) for some ongoing coolant issues, and got the chance to 'sample' some of their newer cars. I like Vauxhall, especially tempted now that quality is on the rise with PSA tech.

On the Peugeot side I was recently at my absolutely superb Pug dealer regarding this thread, and noticed a top of the range 2008 1.2 puretech manual GT Line with all the trimmings in the showroom. 7 miles on the clock, and pre-haggle it is available for 16k rather than 22k I think it was.

It seems a lot of car for 16k new, I thought it was a brilliant little car, and for 16k it's a bargain.

Of the two I'd take the Peugeot, but the infotainment screen does take a little getting used to as it's very slow.

Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - John F

It seems a lot of car for 16k new, I thought it was a brilliant little car, and for 16k it's a bargain.

Thanks for this, but for low mileage drivers like us (c. 8k per annum) buying new/almost new makes no financial sense at all - and I have never spent 16k on a car in my life! The most was 13k for a nearly new Passat 2.0GLauto estate back in '94 for the 20k miles per annum years (long school run, w/e sports competitions, hols in France etc) - got over 230,000 miles out of it. We might spend 15k if Mrs F sees one she likes.

PS They're not that little - about the same size as an Audi Q2 but IMHO considerably better VFM which,as some may know here, figures highly in my motoring expenditure.....

Edited by John F on 20/10/2019 at 18:08

Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - SLO76
I also don’t think it’s good value at £16k either. It’s an old model 208 on stilts really, not a bad wee car but certainly not worth £16k. The list price is utter nonsense, it’s simply set to encourage you to sign up for a never ending PCP or lease. At £10k or less however it does make some sense as a comfortable tall riding alternative to a supermini.
Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - thunderbird

Thanks for this, but for low mileage drivers like us (c. 8k per annum) buying new/almost new makes no financial sense at all

It might not make financial sense but when you work hard and desire a new car you should buy one. I would never pay full price for one but i have never had to, plenty of bargains out there and with the internet it is far easier to find them than it was back in the 70's, 80's and 90's. Best bargain I found on line was 29% off list and the dealer was only 15 miles away. Local supermarkets were charging more for 6 month old ex hire cars that were total tat.

The last car I bought properly used was back in 1978 and despite being a car I had known from new it was total carp. Kept it 3 months and traded it for a new one, the repayments were less than the monthly repair bill.

Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - badbusdriver

when you work hard and desire a new car you should buy one.

Stating the obvious isn't it?

The last car I bought properly used was back in 1978 and despite being a car I had known from new it was total carp. Kept it 3 months and traded it for a new one, the repayments were less than the monthly repair bill.

You can't really make a general assumption on the risks and pitfalls of buying a used car if your last experience of doing so was more than 40 years ago. Cars have moved on a bit since then. I'd be more confident in the reliability of a well looked after 15 year old Toyota Avensis than many new cars.

Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - Avant

"I also don’t think it’s good value at £16k either."

Nor do I. The trouble with apparent bargains like this is that they happen either with running-out models (like this 2008) or cars that were never very saleable in the first place. The flipside will be only too apparent if you come to sell it (but good vaue if you intend to keep it long-term).

A new Q2 is better value than it looks as most Audis hold their value. I got my Q2's predecessor, a Volvo V60, for £7,000 under list - but after two years it had lost 50% of purchase price, 60% of list.

Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - Jon.m

Just to add to this thread. There appears to be a problem that's beginning to manifest itself with the cambelts running in oil. Today I finally got to the bottom of this on the 308 Facebook page. A Peugeot technician stated that the engine has been subject to three cambelt revisions. Gen1 is a smooth black belt that degrades and cracks across the width throughout the whole belt. Gen2 revision has a textured finish and would have been fine had it not been for the fact that it is slightly wide therefore causing it to fray at the sides with debris blocking the oilways. The engine is currently being fitted with a Gen3 belt with no known problems yet. The technician implied that PSA know about this and are changing them under warranty or possibly contributing to the cost out of warranty.

Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - John F

And just to update my previous posts above, we have now had our brand new 2008 1.2 130 EAT6 Allure Premium with panoramic roof for five months and 2,800 miles. Cost exactly £17,000 taxed and 'on the road'. I reckon worth an extra K for the excellent Aisin autobox. Honey coloured oil still on the max mark. MrsF well pleased - and so am I.

Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - Jon.m

Just to add to this thread. There appears to be a problem that's beginning to manifest itself with the cambelts running in oil. Today I finally got to the bottom of this on the 308 Facebook page. A Peugeot technician stated that the engine has been subject to three cambelt revisions. Gen1 is a smooth black belt that degrades and cracks across the width throughout the whole belt. Gen2 revision has a textured finish and would have been fine had it not been for the fact that it is slightly wide therefore causing it to fray at the sides with debris blocking the oilways. The engine is currently being fitted with a Gen3 belt with no known problems yet. The technician implied that PSA know about this and are changing them under warranty or possibly contributing to the cost out of warranty.

Another update, My car had problems with intermittent EML lights with "engine fault have vehicle repaired" on two occasions over the course of a year and a half. Both times it was clogged vvt solenoids.

After chasing around trying to get this diagnosed I ended up having a long conversation with a head tech at Peugeot. He basically told me there are issues with the engine and they attribute this to incorrect oil. There are now a number of tsb's at the dealer's covering these problems and the solenoids are associated with these. Mine had always had the correct stuff on service so this leads me to believe that the engine will suffer problems no matter what oil is used. I managed to avoid the stupidly high cost of a PSA diagnostic as my £20 code reader pinpointed the inlet solenoid which they swapped out. At this point I had lost all confidence in the car. I'm pretty sure the reason for failing solenoids was down to debris from the belt. The potential of a £5k bill to replace the engine convinced me to trade it in for something Japanese with a camchain. It's a shame as I really liked the car and the engine performs well but the belt in oil is a massive fail.

Edited by Jon.m on 08/11/2020 at 09:15

Peugeot 308 1.2 Puretech - Puretech 1.2 Engine Failure - brum

The whole concept of running a cambelt or any other belt for that matter in hot and contaminated engine oil, seems counter intuitive. When I first heard about these (ford ecoboost) I thought it might some innovative design of metal camchain, but if its construction is similar to a traditional cambelt then its little surprise to me they are likely to be a ticking timebomb.

"Wrong oil" seems to be a convenient catchall getout that can't easily be challenged.

 

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