Home kettle keeping fused! - Theflyingpostman

Hello, I am new of this forum, about my new kettle, here is what happen my previous old Russell Hobbs look like a 1960s old retro red one, I had it for 2 years till the plastic got cracked, so I bought other one exactly the same! from Curry.
Arrived at home from the bus I went straight away boiling my first tea the fuse it just blew before the water was about getting hot. I took the plug apart and replace a fuse is 5amps, try it again and blew again I thought oh yeah it is a fault so I went back to the Curry later in the afternoon to replace it. I went back home again and plug in, the fuse blew again unbelievable, I was wonder if the old must be different the new I went compare it I just found the current of amps on my old is 13amps but the new have is rate of 5 amps???? both have same power current watts of 2300w. My friend is good maths work out the current for use the correct fuse amps here is 2300w/240v= 9.58x1.25= 11.9amps so the fuse on the new kettle is too low 5amps that is what it cause the blew.
Now I can't return it again because the seller of Curry said this is normal to have 5amps than the 13amps he said it must be my house have something wrong with wiring! I do not know if this has been in recall before I would assure people have same problem?

I have felt that I have waste £26 for a kettle that I can’t return it would it be safe if I install 13amps???? I think it mind not be a wise to try. any other way of get it back? replace different one or get refund?

thanks

Home kettle keeping fused! - AdeyG

Plug on a kettle usually has a 13amp fuse in it. 5amp rating is too low. sounds like manufacturer has put wrong fuse in.

Edited by AdeyG on 11/03/2019 at 16:11

Home kettle keeping fused! - Theflyingpostman

I have put 13 amps it works fine three times in a row but are this really safe?

Home kettle keeping fused! - concrete

I have put 13 amps it works fine three times in a row but are this really safe?

It is a damn site safer with a 13 amp fuse than a 5 amp fuse. 5 amps is a ridiculous rating for a kettle. 5 amp fuses give you protection up to approx 1000 watts which is not enough for a kettle. Currys are wrong, a kettle rated at 2300 watts should never be allowed on sale with a 5 amp fuse. I would contact Trading Standards at you local council and show them the kettle and original fuse and instructions. I think Currys owe you an apology and they are lucky you didn't cause any damage to your home electrics or even a fire. Follow this up. Do not let them away with this, Some little old lady may not be as lucky as you were. Let us know how you get on.

Cheers Concrete

Home kettle keeping fused! - Theflyingpostman

Cheers I will let you know how I get on.

Home kettle keeping fused! - daveyjp

A 2.3kw kettle needs a 13A fuse - end of.

Curry's need to be made aware of the problem - contact their head office as it could be a batch with incorrect fuses which could be subject to product recall.

Also raise the issue directly with the manufacturer.

Home kettle keeping fused! - nick62
...................... I think Currys owe you an apology and they are lucky you didn't cause any damage to your home electrics or even a fire. Follow this up. Do not let them away with this, Some little old lady may not be as lucky as you were. Let us know how you get on.

Cheers Concrete

Nothing unsafe about a product having a fuse which is too LOW rated, it will just blow (as is the case here).

Is it wrong? Yes

Is it inconvenient? Yes

Is it unsafe? NO, (fuses "blow" if the current is too large).

What would be unsafe, is if an item designed to use a 5 amp fuse had a 13 amp one fitted. Any fault current might be too small (i.e. lower than 13 amps) to blow the incorrect (13 amp) fuse, but large enough for it to get hot enough to catch fire?

Edited by nick62 on 12/03/2019 at 14:54

Home kettle keeping fused! - concrete

I have to slightly argue with you Nick. A fuse has a rating for a reason. Yes a low rated fuse should blow if a higher current is passed through it, but not always. Especially cheap imports that are CE marked, but do not always comply under test conditions. I would not consider your comment of "Nothing unsafe about a LOW rated fuse" to be remotely safe or satisfactory. I take your point, but despite that a low rated fuse is likely to actuate the consumer unit circuit trip when it does fail, same as a simple light bulb failing can easily do that or even actuate the main consumer unit trip. This can leave the average person in some difficulty. I cannot count the number of free fuse replacements I have done. Just about every plug that has ever been opened for a fuse change by a 'handy man' has the incorrect rated fuse fitted. usually a 13 amp fits all attitude prevails. Personally I would require the fuse holders in each appliance to be correctly sized to only accept the fuse rating for that appliance. Each individual fuse would also be similarly sized. This situation is really unacceptable for any new product being offered for public sale by a reputable retailer. If it were me I would definitely take it a lot further to prevent any possible future danger.

Cheers Concrete

Home kettle keeping fused! - nick62

If it were me I would definitely take it a lot further to prevent any possible future danger.

Cheers Concrete

There really is no danger involved here. Yes it is definitely "slack" practice by the (probably Chinese) manufacturer and retailer, but I think in this particular instance you are scaremongering somewhat?

A "blowing" light bulb (the old incandescent / filament type) when it trips the MCB in the consumer unit, does so because in the process of the element failing, it can create a short-circuit across the filament support arms inside the bulb (that's when you see a big blinding "flash" as it blows), you are effectively shorting-out the National Grid for a few microseconds, so there is a massive but very short lived current flow! This does not usually happen when a fuse blows as the mechanical construction is completely different to a light bulb.

Home kettle keeping fused! - bolt

If it were me I would definitely take it a lot further to prevent any possible future danger.

Cheers Concrete

There really is no danger involved here. Yes it is definitely "slack" practice by the (probably Chinese) manufacturer and retailer, but I think in this particular instance you are scaremongering somewhat?

A "blowing" light bulb (the old incandescent / filament type) when it trips the MCB in the consumer unit, does so because in the process of the element failing, it can create a short-circuit across the filament support arms inside the bulb (that's when you see a big blinding "flash" as it blows), you are effectively shorting-out the National Grid for a few microseconds, so there is a massive but very short lived current flow! This does not usually happen when a fuse blows as the mechanical construction is completely different to a light bulb.

I was under the impression a fuse blows in segments rather than in one weak spot so the fuse cannot re-join the wire at the other end where a bulb filament can, good thing about led that cannot happen and safer....

Home kettle keeping fused! - Theflyingpostman

Just let everyone know that I went to different Curry in other town, they were happy to replacement straight way, I can't understand what is wrong with other man at the Curry, he must had a bad day anywhere they were raise the issue to headquarters office because the second same make kettle was fit 5amps must be a human error in the factory or a fool person in China who don't follow the process. How is possible to missing the CE certificate test before on sale to the shops. The Kettle was discontinue from October 2017.

Home kettle keeping fused! - nick62

The CE certification process is a waste of space and the chap at Currys probably has an 'O' level in stupidity.

Edited by nick62 on 12/03/2019 at 20:21

Home kettle keeping fused! - sammy1

Happened to me thought it was the kettle and changed the fuse which blew again. So bought a new kettle which blew as soon as switched on.

Turns out that the wall socket had gone bad after some 20 years of use. Bought a new socket £3 from WHAT and now OK. 5amps is the fuse in the new kettle as supplied.

Home kettle keeping fused! - nick62

Happened to me thought it was the kettle and changed the fuse which blew again. So bought a new kettle which blew as soon as switched on.

Turns out that the wall socket had gone bad after some 20 years of use. Bought a new socket £3 from WHAT and now OK. 5amps is the fuse in the new kettle as supplied.

A standard UK kettle is 2,300 or 2,400 watts and SHOULD be fitted with a 13 amp fuse as it will draw a minimum current of 10 amps.

Home kettle keeping fused! - silverback

Computer leads are usually fitted with 5A fuses and are called (incorrectly and universally) kettle leads, as the female plug is the same size as the correct kettle plug (IEC60320 C13 for a normal domestic computer and type C15 for a kettle) The C15 has an slightly different shape - an extra cut out - see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60320 . My last 2 kettles have fixed leads to a base on which the kettle sits.

If the kettle does have a detachable lead then check the lead for the correct fitting.

5A implies an absolute maximum load of not more than 1.155 kW (5A at 230V). There should be a rating plate somewhere on the kettle. I've never had a kettle that was fused less than 13A as bought . 5A seems very low for a kettle.

I'm not an electrician but I have been on a short fuse sizing course many years ago!

Edited by silverback on 13/03/2019 at 00:22

Home kettle keeping fused! - nick62

Computer leads are usually fitted with 5A fuses and are called (incorrectly and universally) kettle leads, as the female plug is the same size as the correct kettle plug (IEC60320 C13 for a normal domestic computer and type C15 for a kettle) The C15 has an slightly different shape - an extra cut out - see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60320 . My last 2 kettles have fixed leads to a base on which the kettle sits.

If the kettle does have a detachable lead then check the lead for the correct fitting.

5A implies an absolute maximum load of not more than 1.155 kW (5A at 230V). There should be a rating plate somewhere on the kettle. I've never had a kettle that was fused less than 13A as bought . 5A seems very low for a kettle.

I'm not an electrician but I have been on a short fuse sizing course many years ago!

Correct. A kettle with a detachable lead uses an "IEC 10amp" connector (the one with the semi-circular interference "bump" to stop you plugging-in one from a computer).

Home kettle keeping fused! - concrete

Computer leads are usually fitted with 5A fuses and are called (incorrectly and universally) kettle leads, as the female plug is the same size as the correct kettle plug (IEC60320 C13 for a normal domestic computer and type C15 for a kettle) The C15 has an slightly different shape - an extra cut out - see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60320 . My last 2 kettles have fixed leads to a base on which the kettle sits.

If the kettle does have a detachable lead then check the lead for the correct fitting.

5A implies an absolute maximum load of not more than 1.155 kW (5A at 230V). There should be a rating plate somewhere on the kettle. I've never had a kettle that was fused less than 13A as bought . 5A seems very low for a kettle.

I'm not an electrician but I have been on a short fuse sizing course many years ago!

Correct. A kettle with a detachable lead uses an "IEC 10amp" connector (the one with the semi-circular interference "bump" to stop you plugging-in one from a computer).

So there is a design to allow safe use at the connection but not actually where the fuse connects. Missed a trick there methinks!

Despite the physics involved in a bulb failing or the other consequences, when the trip occurs it can cause concern for the majority of people for a variety of reasons. It can paralyse a household and for some be very scary. Therefore correct fuse ratings will help enormously. I disagree that I am 'scaremongering'. Surely electrical safety is a good habit or procedure to follow? With the average person not having adequate knowledge of electrical systems or appliances or load ratings through cables and fuses surely the safer the better. You say yourself that the CE is not worth the mark on the product and I agree; so where does the public turn for safety advice? If we don't push the authorities to correct the obvious flaws in products, who does? Scaremongering not withstanding I would take this matter further.

Cheers Concrete

Home kettle keeping fused! - gordonbennet

I don't like fuses blowing, especially at 240 volts, and as a very lay person even i would know a 5amp fuse is not enough for a kettle.

Don't fuses get hot before they blow, hence why it's not ''just'' a blown fuse, as said it can trip the circuit breaker main board if you have such a modern thing...we don't.

On the subject of kettles, we spent a silly amount of money on a posh kettle, luckily guaranteed for 3 years because we did indeed need 2 replacements, the third one also died by the time the warranty had expired, we too are back to Russell Hobbs which seem to last around 5 years and cost around 1/3rd what we paid for the magimix jobbie, so far no sign of fuses blowing.

Anyone tried a Dualit kettle?

Home kettle keeping fused! - nick62

GB, treat yourself to a new consumer unit with MCB's (miniature circuit breakers) and a main RCCB (residual current circuit breaker).

The RCCB detects an in-balance in current between the live and neutral, so this means there must an earth fault.

Much safer than the old fuse boards (an RCCB can easily save your life) and a lot more convenient (I remember my dad searching for a torch, then some fuse wire, then a screwdriver back in the 1960's) :)

Modern boards now have "split" feeds, so the lighting circuit is on a separate supply to the sockets - handy that the lights stay on when a crappy Chinese kettle blows a fuse!

Edited by nick62 on 15/03/2019 at 13:38

Home kettle keeping fused! - gordonbennet

Nick, yes it's something we will get around to, we'll get it done when we need an electrician for something else no doubt, not a simple change because we have a rather long bungalow and the earth having to come we are told all the way from the garage where the electrics are sited to the (food preparation room) to clip to the water main is going to be a long run indeed.

Home kettle keeping fused! - concrete

Nick, yes it's something we will get around to, we'll get it done when we need an electrician for something else no doubt, not a simple change because we have a rather long bungalow and the earth having to come we are told all the way from the garage where the electrics are sited to the (food preparation room) to clip to the water main is going to be a long run indeed.

Hello GB, unless your electrical system is very old you should have an earth to service, which means the earth connections all lead back to the main supply cable. Earth bonding to water pipes can help. though. A friend of mine has an old cottage and his earth is a metal rod driven into the ground and the earthing from his wiring goes back to that. Seems to work alright. We have an RCCB and MCB consumer unit and it is easier to reset after a trip than trying to repair the old hard wired fuses. May be worth the investment. If you ever need to sell then the electrics would probably need to be completely updated as part of the conditions of purchase.

Cheers Concrete

Home kettle keeping fused! - nick62
If you ever need to sell then the electrics would probably need to be completely updated as part of the conditions of purchase.

Not required, it is just like buying/selling a second-hand car privately.

Home kettle keeping fused! - concrete
If you ever need to sell then the electrics would probably need to be completely updated as part of the conditions of purchase.

Not required, it is just like buying/selling a second-hand car privately.

I think my use of the word 'probably' is correct in this instance. We recently sold an older house and the survey included an inspection and test of the electrical wiring system. We had the old Wylex consumer unit with wired fuses. Although the system passed with flying colours the surveyor recommended as part of the mortgage offer to the prospective buyer that the Wxlex unit be changed to an RCCB unit with MCB circuit breakers. Not a problem if you are buying outright but if the mortgage offer depends on some improvements or changes then it is advisable to implement them or forgo the offer. Not all is black and white!

Cheers Concrete

Home kettle keeping fused! - Bromptonaut

5A implies an absolute maximum load of not more than 1.155 kW (5A at 230V). There should be a rating plate somewhere on the kettle. I've never had a kettle that was fused less than 13A as bought . 5A seems very low for a kettle.

Travel or caravan kettles run at much lower wattages than the hi-speed domestic item. IIRC ours in the 'van is around 1Kw. While it would be possible to use a 3Kw kettle in that situation it'll take up 13 of the 16amps on the shore supply; doesn't leave much overhead for anything never mind a 1Kw blown air heating system.....

Home kettle keeping fused! - nick62

Travel or caravan kettles run at much lower wattages than the hi-speed domestic item. IIRC ours in the 'van is around 1Kw. While it would be possible to use a 3Kw kettle in that situation it'll take up 13 of the 16amps on the shore supply; doesn't leave much overhead for anything never mind a 1Kw blown air heating system.....

No such thing as a 3kw kettle anymore Bromptonaut, they were a throwback of the old round-pin 15A socket ratings. The maximum rating is 2.4kw (10 amps at 240v).

Home kettle keeping fused! - FiestaOwner
No such thing as a 3kw kettle anymore Bromptonaut, they were a throwback of the old round-pin 15A socket ratings. The maximum rating is 2.4kw (10 amps at 240v).

Tesco and Argos both advertise 3kw kettles. They are rapid boil kettles.

www.argos.co.uk/product/7174513

www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/296822317

The rating plate on my kettle is 2.55kw to 3kw (voltage range 220 to 240 volt).

Home kettle keeping fused! - nick62

Fair do's FO, I hadn't considered that the "cordless" jugs don't use the IEC 10amp connector anymore, (which limited the element to 2.4kw @ 240v).

Home kettle keeping fused! - FiestaOwner

Fair do's FO, I hadn't considered that the "cordless" jugs don't use the IEC 10amp connector anymore, (which limited the element to 2.4kw @ 240v).

To be fair, I had forgotten all about corded kettles.

I accept that IEC connector will limit them to 2.4kw, but I had never appreciated that.

Home kettle keeping fused! - nick62

I accept that IEC connector will limit them to 2.4kw, but I had never appreciated that.

I worked in the domestic appliance industry in the late 70's / early 80's when they were first introduced.

Home kettle keeping fused! - Ethan Edwards

Ohms law. Essentially it can be expressed as p=iv p is known 2400watts v is known 240v therefore I has to be 10amps. Therefore a 5 amp fuse is incorrect. Totally proper to use the next size up which is 13a. I've rounded up the maths a bit but it's still way more than 5amps. I'm not a sparky but I know physics and I can do maths. In reality being Ac it'll be a tad less but way more than 5 amps.

 

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