Honda Civic - Civic steering - powerofdreams

Ref - Honda Civic Sport - 15 plate

Good day all

I have had the car four wheel aligned after changing the fronts and it is all correct, but the steering wheel is not straight. It was not straight after changing the fronts, and the tyre fitter assured me the tracking was right, so I took it to a specialist for alignment.

It is under warranty, I presume this is an easy fix, but I thought to see on here if people think it is a bigger job than I first thought. It is booked in this week with Honda and want to be prepared

Honda Civic - Civic steering - badbusdriver

Maybe the steering wheel has been off and refitted in the wrong position?. The wheel fits on a shafts with splines, so if it has been off for some reason, it could explain why the wheel isn't lined up. Shouldn't be a big problem to rectify, but I'd be curious to know why the wheel was off. Have you owned the car from new?.

Honda Civic - Civic steering - Simon

Poor job by the people doing the four wheel alignment. Surely part of doing this alignment is to ensure that the steering wheel is aligned with the straight ahead position of the road wheels???

Honda Civic - Civic steering - skidpan

At some time in the past the car has suffered a knock to the front that has required the tracking to be corrected. The muppet who carried out the work did all the correction on one side which has caused the steering wheel miss alignment.

The garages that are saying there is nothing wrong with the wheel alignment are probably correct but they should be offering to correct the steering wheel since that is your issue. 2 ways to do it, the correct one is via the track rod ends (correcting the original muppets mistake), the bodge is via the steering wheel.

You will no doubt have to pay unless you can prove who did it wrong initially. Wheel alignment is covered by no warranties.

Honda Civic - Civic steering - powerofdreams

Thanks all

The car went back to Honda who charged 70-80 GBP IIRC, they couldn't get it completely straight and said it was within tolerance. The car has done about 1500 miles maybe more and the tyres are wearing perfectly, but the wheel not being completely level is a touch annoying

They blamed uneven wearing tyres and swapped the fronts with the backs

What do you lot think?

Honda Civic - Civic steering - gordonbennet

Is it now beyond a fitter (a mechanic would have done so) to count the threads at both track rods ends, dear Lord, it would also appear to be beyond them to drive the car a short distance, realise the steering wheel is off centre, make a mental note of how many degrees it needs shifting, and then do it.

I agree with Skidpan, the car probably had a clout into a kerb or something and some fool adjusted one side TRE only instead of both equally, which possibly has not since been corrected.

Odd that you apparently have perfectly wearing tyres yet they blamed uneven wear, which is it?

Honda Civic - Civic steering - focussed

When I have seen wheel alignment done by a properly equipped workshop, the steering wheel is first locked in the straight ahead position by a special jig, and the front wheels are then aligned with the usual equipment.

In this case it seems that successive workshops are making excuses for their sloppy work practices.

Most fast-fit type workshops just go through the motions, do the job a quickly as possible, using the tracking equipment on a monkey-see - monkey-do basis in order to charge the cheapest price.

In the past I have done my own wheel alignment using spirit levels, straight edges, taut wires etc, it takes time but if you understand the geometry of what you are trying to achieve it's possible.

Edited by focussed on 15/04/2019 at 23:04

Honda Civic - Civic steering - bathtub tom

Last time I I had new tyres fitted I opted for the 'free' alignment check. Told my n/s front wheel was toeing out but the o/s was fine. Tyre wear indicated a little too much toe-in. I asked what if I turn the steering, to be met by blank looks. Declined an adjustment.

Honda Civic - Civic steering - Lee Power

Sounds like either they cant be bothered to do the job correctly OR its youngsters been given the job who don't know how to use the equipment correctly.

My local garage is excellent at wheel alignment, always spot on with a straight steering wheel.

Some cars take a lot longer then others & some can be a pain to set up correctly, certain Audi's & Mondeo's apparently being the worst.

Honda Civic - Civic steering - focussed

Last time I I had new tyres fitted I opted for the 'free' alignment check. Told my n/s front wheel was toeing out but the o/s was fine. Tyre wear indicated a little too much toe-in. I asked what if I turn the steering, to be met by blank looks. Declined an adjustment.

Hmm - kind of backs up what I was saying regarding monkeys!

Honda Civic - Civic steering - focussed

My local go-to tyre company in france is a bit of a showpiece. Family owned, the current owner/manager is always there, speaks very good english, spanish and german and is very knowledgeable and pro-active.

There is massive investment in the place, here's a youtube video they have.

youtu.be/mx_dSc7DzyQ

This is not blatant advertising, the point is to have a look at their laser alignment bay at 0.20 on the video.

They sort out a lot of classic and competition cars on that bay, I know a couple of guys with track day Caterhams locally that go there and they say it's the bee's knees.

Having said all that, the rest of the local tyre depots are like the UK!

Honda Civic - Civic steering - powerofdreams

They have tracked it but put the old tyres on the front, with the new ones on the back
Sure enough a few months down the line, the tyres on the front are not wearing correctly

A mechanic friend said this was not the right thing to do

Anyone else had this with a dealership?

Also I thought the tyres were wearing evenly on the front (the old ones they put on as the new pair they put on the back) but overtime it appears both tyres are scrubbing again

Edited by powerofdreams on 19/04/2019 at 21:18

Honda Civic - Civic steering - gordonbennet

That's how it is in these gloomy days of dumbing down/deskilling and the nanny state of one size fits all, putting new tyres on the rear is the default method at almost all garages and tyre dealers (recommended by all major tyre makers donchaknow who presumably also assume the people who buy their products can't drive for toffee), if you want the new tyres on the front you'll either have to buy a car with different sizes front/rear so they can't revert to default or swap them around yourself.

Honda Civic - Civic steering - focussed

That's how it is in these gloomy days of dumbing down/deskilling and the nanny state of one size fits all, putting new tyres on the rear is the default method at almost all garages and tyre dealers (recommended by all major tyre makers donchaknow who presumably also assume the people who buy their products can't drive for toffee), if you want the new tyres on the front you'll either have to buy a car with different sizes front/rear so they can't revert to default or swap them around yourself.

I'm mostly with you on this GB but here is a rather long winded explanation of why the new tyres should be fitted to the rears.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=52

This seems to refer to FWD vehicles only, does the reverse apply to RWD vehicles?

And surely rear wheels are less likely to aquaplane (hydroplane as they call it) as the fronts clear the water away and the rears run in the tracks of the fronts?

Any time I have ever experienced aquaplaning it's always the fronts going light on the steering etc, never the rear grip going.

Edited by focussed on 19/04/2019 at 23:25

Honda Civic - Civic steering - gordonbennet
And surely rear wheels are less likely to aquaplane (hydroplane as they call it) as the fronts clear the water away and the rears run in the tracks of the fronts?

Any time I have ever experienced aquaplaning it's always the fronts going light on the steering etc, never the rear grip going.

For goodness sake don't go round offering good common sense observations Focussed, they'll be swooning in the multi gender loos :-)

My usual method is to rotate and then replace all 4 together (especially as our cars are 4WD), but if i needed a pair then generally they'll go on the drive axle if the car is 2WD.

I love how these people (in the link) wax so lyrical about understeer being so easy to control, (face palm), it's almost desirable, (double face palm), there is no more terrifying feeling than your vehicle having no steering response and wanting to plough straight on, into that artic or whatever immovable object is ahead, if it's going to slide i'll vote for steering control every time ta very much and take my chances of being able to sort the oversteer out.

As always with these things, the 'experts' assume we are all plant pots, incapable of independent thought let alone judging the handling of our vehicles and actually knowing what is best for ourselves.

Honda Civic - Civic steering - focussed

"For goodness sake don't go round offering good common sense observations Focussed, they'll be swooning in the multi gender loos :-)"

Oh sorry to confuse all and sundry with facts - ok it's just experience!

Honda Civic - Civic steering - powerofdreams

But can we agree that tracking a car on tyres that are not even is not best practice?

Especially when you have brand new ones you have moved to the back

Even the girl at the dealership was shocked when I told her what my paperwork said

Honda Civic - Civic steering - bathtub tom

But can we agree that tracking a car on tyres that are not even is not best practice?

I reckon it shouldn't make any difference, as the tracking is a mechanical function.

I'd add those tracking tools that measured the sideforce on a sliding plate that were around in the '80s were fine with new tyres, but if the tracking was out, the side force exerted by worn tyres could give a false measurement.

Honda Civic - Civic steering - powerofdreams

But if you track the car up, then send it out on the road with uneven tyres - surely you are asking for problems

Honda Civic - Civic steering - bolt

But can we agree that tracking a car on tyres that are not even is not best practice?

the tracking is measured on the wheel rims, the plates under the tyres are to allow the adjustment of tracking without drag on the tyres, if the plates are not used the tyres do not allow accurate adjustment so the car has to be rolled several feet backwards then forwards to allow settling of tracking adjustment, this means it has to be rechecked

and as mentioned the adjustment is equal on both track rod ends otherwise you get steering wheel misalignment tyre condition has no bearing on tracking adjustment

Honda Civic - Civic steering - powerofdreams

New tyres front and back, the steering was off to the left, so indicates the tyres are crucial.

Honda sent it off site to a four wheel alignment place, all sorted now

Honda Civic - Civic steering - bolt

New tyres front and back, the steering was off to the left, so indicates the tyres are crucial.

Honda sent it off site to a four wheel alignment place, all sorted now

you can have near illegal tyres but doesn't stop the tracking being done incorrectly, and as someone only adjusted one side on yours made it tow to the left. its not uncommon and pure laziness on the fitters part !

 

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