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A bland farewell - SLO76
I’ve mostly kept motoring costs down by sticking to used cars, mostly sub £5,000 Japanese petrol models where depreciation is minimal and reliability high. But new bambino and image conscious younger wife forced an upgrade four years ago and a new Honda CRV was decided upon.

I looked at buying nearly new but as the model was very recent prices were high and new discounts were low so I shopped around online among leasing firms then called round Honda dealers to see if any would match and one did, Phoenix in Glasgow £259 a month instead of the £309 Honda contract lease wanted to start with. People often forget to negotiate on leasing, just like buying there’s always money to be saved. Polite friendly and well informed salesman took us for a test drive and processed the order without a problem.

The car itself a 64 plate 1.6 DTEC SE-T in red metallic arrived shortly and proved a very comfortable, practical and amazingly economical big family car. Space in the rear seats is almost limo like and the boot is vast. Ride although a little bouncy as is the norm for SUV’s is very comfortable and it is a particularly pleasant big car to be driven in especially in the back.

Interior quality is excellent with high quality plastics and trim far superior to anything else we looked at including the Mercedes C Class estate. Paintwork is a weak point on Honda’s with stone chips easily building up despite the high bonnet but the car still looks fresh and scuff free amazingly enough despite swmbo’s enthusiastic driving style. I’ve recently looked at loads of previous generation examples with the intention of buying older and lacquer peel and minor rust is common at 7yrs plus, seems the CRV is the worst Honda for this, not sure it’s the type of owner or a quality issue on the model. Similar aged Accords and Civic's don’t seem to be affected.

On the road it’s a great mile muncher with excellent high speed stability, low engine and road noise a large fuel tank, easy 60mpg economy and surprisingly torquey engine. It’s no fireball but it pulls along with the flow of traffic and overtakes without much effort. It is as with most SUV’s utterly dull to pilot however with numb steering, little cornering grip and more roll than you’d experience in say a Civic. That said no one buys one of these for B road fun and I also had a V6 Ford Cougar at the time for entertainment.

Reliability wasn’t flawless but it was in general a very well made big car. There’s no rattles or squeaks, no loose trim or worrying noises after 4 years and 42,000 miles and the car has never let us down. The only issue, and it’s a common one on CRV’s was clutch judder from cold. It started around 6mths into ownership and quickly got to the point where it was a real irritant. From cold the car was horrid to drive when pulling away, juddering badly but after warming up and a bit of clutch riding it (not ideal) would clear which tells me that the clutch was contaminated with oil, likely through the input shaft oil seal.

I raised this with our local dealer (not Phoenix) but they repeatedly fobbed me off. They either hadn’t done as instructed and checked the thing initially finding no fault after me giving it to them the night before to drive from cold, then they decided that it was just a “characteristic of the model sir.” This although a known fault is not a characteristic, had this been so it would’ve done it from new! The final straw came when the very young lassie behind the service desk stated that it was “down to my driving style.” I was outraged! I then bypassed the clearly useless dealer who can’t even wash the car properly when returning it from a service (the dirt is just moved around the car a bit) and went direct to Honda customer services who arranged for it to be reassessed. They quickly agreed that it was faulty and had a new clutch fitted. I reminded the dealer that I believe there was oil contamination but was told that the clutch itself was faulty. Sure enough it drove perfectly when I picked it up but within a short period it started juddering again... oil contamination as I said. It isn’t as bad as it was but is still wholly unacceptable on a £26,000 car.

To sum up, it’s a comfortable, spacious, well made and economical big family wagon with probably the best 4cyl Diesel engine on the market for economy and longterm reliability in mind but it’s a bland thing to drive, it’s much better to be chauffeured around in. Something I’m quite happy to do.

Would I buy another? Yes, I’d buy a used one and I’d thoroughly check the clutch for judder by driving it from stone cold on the demonstration then by doing so again before accepting delivery or better yet I’d buy an auto. I looked at a few but found autos hard to come by and too many tatty poorly serviced examples where owners have treated them as cheap appliances rather then the complex vehicles they are. Recently looked at a 1.6 Twin turbo DTEC at a non-franchise dealer that had not one dealer stamp in the book! It was all a small backstreet garage which would have no idea what to do with something like this. The local main dealer has a few but most are at heavily over book prices and my confidence in them has already been shattered.

We’ve also both recently changed jobs which now involve very short commutes and really a diesel is no longer suitable and the petrol CRV although very robust is very thirsty and with all the hysteria about diesels barely any cheaper used than the more plentiful diesels. I’ve now gone back to roots with a good used Japanese petrol model instead. A Toyota Avensis Estate for half the cost of an equivalent age CRV. The wife isn’t over the moon but if she wants that Volvo XC60/90 or another CRV then she can stump up for it, I’m done losing thousands every year on cars.

Edited by SLO76 on 09/09/2018 at 10:47

A bland farewell - nellyjak

Good review, Slo....and fully embrace your sentiments.

I, too, have given up losing far too much money on cars over the years....my current 3 litre V6 Toyota Estima will stay with me now for the foreseeable future (brilliant vehicle but will be worth little in time given the market and economy vehicle development).

My wife has 13 plate Toyota Yaris with less than 30k miles ( her third) and loves it, but yearns for an SUV (sound familiar.?..lol)...so I've said ..great...let me know when you've saved up enough money to buy one.

I think your choice of an Avenis estate is sound.

A bland farewell - badbusdriver

A refreshing attitude SLO, buying a new car every 2 or 3 years is just crazy. Even if you get a chunk off the new car through buying from a broker, the amount you will loose in depreciation is still vastly more than you are likely to pay in repairs/running costs for something like your Avensis.

I've mentioned before about how i would like to opt out of my wife's Motability car as i'm sure i could buy and run something in a similar price bracket to your Avensis for much less than the equivalent monetary payment she would recieve. I was on the Autotrader website the other night looking at 1.6 auto versions of the Ford Fusion (we used to have a 1.4 petrol manual which i thought it was a brilliant small family car and so underrated) and Nissan Note, thinking that something like that would do us just perfect. She is not so keen though, hey ho, i will just have to keep whittling away at her!.

A bland farewell - barney100

I too have had it throwing cash after cars with poor customer service. Just had a call from the Mercedes dealer who informed me my finance deal of four years was coming to an end...yippee...did I want to come in for a special deal? Well no actually. I'll live with the fault that would cost £2500 to fix..it dosen't affect the driving. I don't feel like changing either of our two cars until I need to now. It seems quite a few back roomers are unhappy with dealers and manufacturers.

A bland farewell - SLO76
I forgot to add a quirk in leasing I’ve experienced. It used to be that you could buy your lease car at the end of term quite easily, usually it was substantially cheaper than retail used prices and some negotiation could be done.

This time they would give me a price, only about £700-£1,000 behind retail and strangely informed me that I can’t buy it nor anyone who is financially linked to me as in immediate family. I can however get someone else to buy it, register it in their name then back again which puts another unnecessary name on the V5. How odd. Only thing I can think of is that it’s an attempt to encourage you into another lease car.

I’ve yet to hand it back and this is the first time I’ve leased a car so we’ll see if they try to bill me for the few stone chips and very minor marks in the paint. But the car is in far better shape than any similar examples I viewed when considering its replacement. Though the big Toyota I got instead is near mint and cost me over £7k less than Lex wanted for our own car.

Edited by SLO76 on 09/09/2018 at 12:00

A bland farewell - corax
I’m done losing thousands every year on cars.

As you know there is something very satisfiying about owning an old but well engineered car that has fully depreciated and a few dings and scratches don't matter.

I still have an Avensis estate in the list of cars to replace my Forester (reluctant to give it up while it's still dependable). Mondeo estate would be a possibility but I don't like the choice of petrol engines, diesel is out due to lot's of local journeys. Plus I think that they are just too wide. I spend some time winding around narrow country lanes with deep potholes and blind corners - I think it would feel cumbersome. I've had an Avensis before and they're solid as a rock. I can't deny that it would be a lot cheaper to run too.

I wish the Subaru dealer hadn't washed my car when it was having the wishbones replaced after breakage. I like to have the window down when driving. They used some sort of super wax on the body work, and every time I turn left after it's been raining, a ton of water slides across the roof and onto the electric window switches :-)

A bland farewell - barney100

Really galling when you see a car you used to own merrily going down the road and looking in good nick long after you got rid of it.

A bland farewell - SLO76

Really galling when you see a car you used to own merrily going down the road and looking in good nick long after you got rid of it.

I think the opposite, I love seeing a car I cared for or flogged as a trader still going strong. I walk by a Fiesta I sold for £500 over 6yrs ago that’s still going. Tatty as hell but sounds sweet and it’s given its current owner great service. Another 07 plate Mondeo I sold 5yrs ago is parked round the corner from me too and is totally spotless.
A bland farewell - madf

Really galling when you see a car you used to own merrily going down the road and looking in good nick long after you got rid of it.

Ahh but how many old cars have things like aircon working. During this hot spell I saw lots of 53-67 reg Range Rovers looking spoltless but with teh windows open....I know that does not mean aircon is not working but suggests it is. lots of people run old cars buffed up to look nice but fail to spend £££s fixing things that go wrong...

A bland farewell - SLO76
“Ahh but how many old cars have things like aircon working. During this hot spell I saw lots of 53-67 reg Range Rovers looking spoltless but with teh windows open....I know that does not mean aircon is not working but suggests it is. lots of people run old cars buffed up to look nice but fail to spend £££s fixing things that go wrong...”

Agree, it’s a bonus to find working a/c on anything over 7yrs old as few maintain it properly by using the system regularly even in winter. The Toyota has ice cold a/c thankfully but it’s something you often have to live without if you go down this road.
A bland farewell - gordonbennet

It has to be seriously hot, and probably raining, or the dogs are in the back, to find the windows shut and the aircon running in either of our cars.

I'll have the aircon on permanently in the lorry, because as its a brand new design you can't have the window open even a fraction without being deafened by the wind or if open further run the risk of only half killed wasps richocheting off the mirror and onto the seat behind my back, from where over the years i have been stung multiple times.

Soon as i finish work and into my car its all windows and sunroof open, just as it would be in every vehicle i drive if properly designed, much prefer real air to that processed cooled dry stuff.

Have to say this isn't the first time a Honda dealer hasn't covered themselves in glory, the one nearest to us proved as much use as a chocolate teapot, but they are no longer a Honda dealer so maybe my daughter's experience of useless wasn't the only one.

Other than that, son and family emigrate next month and their 13 plate petrol CRV is already an agreed sale (colleague), they are looking at leasing another CRV in Oz, they would agree with your overall assessment SLO.

As for new vehicles, i've only ever had one, a Hilux in 2007 which was sold 3.5 years later for over 2/3rds of its new price, so as depreciation goes it was one of the better choices, and no unless i had money to burn we won't be having another new car, apart from the money aspect nothing sold here actually appeals anyway, oh and unless something changes big time, it's used Japanese either Toyota or Subaru for us for the forseeable.

Edited by gordonbennet on 09/09/2018 at 17:00

A bland farewell - John F

An interesting lesson in how costly it is to rent a new car for a low annual mileage. If I've got my maths right, 60mpg (really?) translates to about 10p per mile assuming fuel is about £6 per gallon. However, this apparent economy is negated by adding a whopping 30p per mile rental cost (£259 x 48months at around 10,000m per annum). I can't see this makes sense for anyone other than a high miler, unless one puts a high value on the pleasure of driving a new car - and the associated risk and hassle of being without it owing to teething problems.

A bland farewell - SLO76
The 60mpg figure is correct John, in fact it can beat this on longer runs but day to day it’s around 55-56mpg which is exceptional for such a large vehicle. But yes you’re correct depreciation (which is what you’re paying for on a lease effectively) is the biggest cost when buying a new or newer car and it greatly outweighs any fuel saving.

However the boss wanted a new car which was large enough to cope with holidays with baby gear, plus safe enough to protect him in an accident and while I was looking for a good used estate she proposed paying half of any new or nearly new car we bought so I started looking at the newer SUV’s and the CRV stood out for being hugely spacious and economical compared to rivals. The likes of the cheaper Sportage and Kuga were no larger in the boot than the hatchbacks they’re based on.

As for leasing rather than buying well it can actually work out cheaper thanks to the huge discounts given to leasing firms. I got £50 a month off the initial price which saved £2,400 over 4yrs bringing the over all cost down substantially. It’s cost £13,800 over 4yrs including deposit but had a list price of almost £26,000 and today is worth around £11,000 as a part-exchange. As you can see it’s actually worked out slightly cheaper than buying as discounts were tiny on this model back in 2014 so thus the reason why I went this way.

I did however expect to be able to buy it at the end of term for a low price which was the norm in the past further enhancing the benefit of leasing but this seems to have changed now. I agree that it’s still an expensive way to motor, buying or renting any new SUV is and today with wife no longer able to contribute and working much nearer I’m cutting that cost dramatically by buying used again. I hate losing money on cars just like your good self and I’ll be left to foot the bill entirely as what the boss earns is rarely shared.

Edited by SLO76 on 10/09/2018 at 08:58

A bland farewell - Falkirk Bairn

>>I did however expect to be able to buy it at the end of term for a low price

With a Business Lease you rent the car/photcopier or whatever for a monthly fee. At the end of the lease the item is returned - you are not allowed to buy it as the Lease Company have taken tax breaks on the depreciating asset.

With a Business Lease Purchase (Hire Purchase) you have bought he item at the end of the lease period, sometimes there is a modest charge to complete the purchase. The company taking the tax breaks on payments is the lessor not the Bank/Lease Company as in Business Lease above.

A bland farewell - John F
.....I hate losing money on cars just like your good self and I’ll be left to foot the bill entirely as what the boss earns is rarely shared.

Ah. Understood. Thankfully my non-earning SHMBO is in a much weaker negotiating position and was very happy with a nearly 4yr old ex motability (I think) Focus auto estate for £7000 to replace our trusty Passat. Admittedly it is a much less sophisticated vehicle than the CRV and does only 37-38mpg overall, but we have had over 100,000m out of it (7p per mile assuming worth nothing now). As as everyone knows, it has never been serviced;-) I just hope it starts after nearly three weeks at Heathrow (although I did disconnect the battery as a precaution).

However, the depreciation cost per mile on my Audi was far more eye-watering. Between its list price of £72000 and my price of £12000 it had done only 49,000m. That's 122p per mile!!!

A bland farewell - expat
Other than that, son and family emigrate next month and their 13 plate petrol CRV is already an agreed sale (colleague), they are looking at leasing another CRV in Oz,



Finance arrangements are different over here in Australia. The only time I have heard of anyone leasing a car is when they are doing it on salary sacrifice and paying with pre tax dollars. That can be a good lurk but is only available to a few people. Every one else either buys outright, gets a bank loan or finances it through the dealer. Also people that I know keep their cars long term here. Ten years is quite usual. It isn't like the UK where people get a new one every 3 years. Your son should also bring out some evidence of the length of his no claims bonus - it might help him get it here.
A bland farewell - gordonbennet
. The only time I have heard of anyone leasing a car is when they are doing it on salary sacrifice and paying with pre tax dollars. That can be a good lurk but is only available to a few people. Every one else either buys outright, gets a bank loan or finances it through the dealer. Also people that I know keep their cars long term here. Ten years is quite usual. It isn't like the UK where people get a new one every 3 years. Your son should also bring out some evidence of the length of his no claims bonus - it might help him get it here.

Thanks expat, i shall mention that to them.

They did mention the name of or the method or company that operates lease on the salary sacrifice scheme, they were under the impression that it could save around $10k over 2 years, but i may not have been listening intently enough so don't quote me.

Personally i'd be straight into a Toyota/Subaru used import bought outright, but they do things their way so i shut me trap and let them do what they want.

A bland farewell - expat

Thanks expat, i shall mention that to them.

They did mention the name of or the method or company that operates lease on the salary sacrifice scheme, they were under the impression that it could save around $10k over 2 years, but i may not have been listening intently enough so don't quote me.

Personally i'd be straight into a Toyota/Subaru used import bought outright, but they do things their way so i shut me trap and let them do what they want.

The companies that I have seen doing imports from Japan are mostly doing rice burners - Supra and that sort of sporty coupe.

Another thing that they need to be aware of is that in West Australia at least when you buy a house you bid low. You offer at least 10% less than what they are asking then haggle. I heard in the UK people pay the asking price or even offer more! Not here. It may be different in the Eastern States. In Sydney they auction a lot of houses. You need to keep a cool head in that sort of situation and be prepared to walk away.

A bland farewell - skidpan

Another thing that they need to be aware of is that in West Australia at least when you buy a house you bid low. You offer at least 10% less than what they are asking then haggle. I heard in the UK people pay the asking price or even offer more!

When we sold our house about 2 years ago we knew exactly what we wanted based on recent sales in the area. A quick look on "Right Move" where recent sales are published. Agent came round and valued it at eactly our figure, he had probably been on "Right Move" as well. We discussed it and agreed a figure £X higher preceeded by "offers close to". Had 2 viewings one afternoon about a week and 1/2 after it went on sale. Before the hour was up we were getting offers which started about £X lower than our expectation. Turned down the offers but they kept increasing them and within the hour we had reached the figure we wanted and accepted.

So they may have offered low but they knew what is what worth just like we did.

When i bought the house in 1981 I offered less than the asking price as well and paid what i thought was the correct price. Its perfectly normal.

Regarding

A refreshing attitude SLO, buying a new car every 2 or 3 years is just crazy.

Where do you think all the good used cares come from. They are from people like me who are quite happy buying new cars regularly (3 years now we are retired) and looking after them. I don't want an old unreliable money pit on the drive, I can afford to buy new and regularly and will continue to do so. People probably get a bargain when we move the old car on and good luck to them, its our decision to do this.

Some people spend almost as much on the idiot tax (lottery) as we do on cars, have you ever studied them at the counter in the supermarket. My MIL complains about the pension and the cost of electricity, coal and food and then "invests" about 10% of her weekly pension on the idiot tax. She never wins, its just money thrown away, she could spend on other things that would make her life easier.

At least we can see where our money is going.

A bland farewell - Steveieb
Brilliant review SLO. A star

Would the same engine etc be in the Honda FRV

It's a car I have always fancied.
A bland farewell - SLO76
”Would the same engine etc be in the Honda FRV“

The only diesel FRV used the early 2.2 CTD motor and although it was ok for its time it’s too old to recommend in diesel form. They’re much more complex and prone to a number of problems as they age. This was Honda’s first Diesel engine and what they learned from it was used to good effect in the smoother later DTEC engines. Stick with the excellent VTEC petrols instead at this sort of age and money.
A bland farewell - SLO76
“Some people spend almost as much on the idiot tax (lottery) as we do on cars, have you ever studied them at the counter in the supermarket.”

I owned a newsagents for fifteen years and it never ceased to amaze me just how much money people who’ve never worked a day had to spend on scratch cards and fags. You’re right Skidpan I had regular punters who spent hundreds of pounds a month on junk. I can say that I acted more responsibly with the money I earned from the tax payer.
A bland farewell - Dingle232

Great appraisal of the CRV SLO and mirrors my own experience albeit I have only been a CRV owner a couple of months. I have the pre-facelift model 2.2 i-DTEC EX and can vouch for its comfort, size and generall all-around usability. My MPG is lower than yours which is probably attributable to the 5-speed auto box I have plus the larger engine - I regularly get 45 and if I drive sensibly on a run I can get in excess of 50MPG.

The only thing I would be critical of, and it's the opposite to your experience, is that the car has a number of really annoying rattles. I put up with it for a while but it's driving me insane to the point where it's going back to the dealers again tomorrow.

I agree with your car buying philosophy and would have an older Toyota in a heartbeat. It was a toss up for me between a CRV and a RAV4 this time and I chose the CRV because of the nicer interior and better MPG. I plan to keep this for a good while and squeeze the value out of it - it should do starship mileage if I look after it.

A bland farewell - glowplug

My 93 Citroen XM has working A/C. I sorted it out in 2011 and it's still works fine. I understand what you're saying, personally I'd rather do the work myself and know it's done properly rather than at a profit or least loss. This means I run older cars but it's much more satisfying to me.

A bland farewell - Mike H

Having been busy, and then had friends staying with us, this is the first chance I've had to frame a decent reply to your post SLO.

As you may remember, we have a similar car, a 1.6 2WD iDTEC, currently on 76,000km. It's broadly the same spec as yours, with a different name ("Elegance Plus") with added satnav, as we live in Austria. When we bought it in October 2015, it cost c.€29,500 which at the then exchange rate of €1.35 to £1 equates to c.£22,000, so significantly cheaper than yours ;-). We bought it on what they call "leasing" here, which is more like a UK PCP plan. We paid €10,000 deposit, with monthly payments of €200 for 4 years, and a projected residual value of €13,000. The last figure was determined by the dealer principal scanning the local Autotrader equivalent website, wetting his finger and holding it in the air! We reckoned on 25,000km per annum (c. 16,000 miles), which we're broadly meeting. A significant departure form the UK norm is that there is no penalty if we exceed this, it will simply hit the residual value.

Broadly I'd agree with SLO's comments. It's very likeable, and a particularly good motorway car, we've covered many kilometres on the autobahns during our trips to and from the UK, including one trip with four up plus luggage. However, the overall fuel consumption since new is only 52mpg, c. 5.4l/100km, although I recently tried V-Power diesel for the first time and managed 57mpg over the tank (measured brim to brim. Next tank on cooking diesel was 52 again, so last night I refilled with V-Power again, to see if the improved consumption was a fluke or repeatable.

I don't agree with the lack of cornering grip. It still has the Goodyear Efficient Grip tyres it was delivered with, and they're only about half worn, although I do use winter tyres for half of the year. A set of those lasted only two winters, perhaps 25,000km? They grip perfectly well, and I'd buy them again. The biggest bugbear is the road noise, but it remains similar irrespective of whether it's running on the winter or summer tyres. I also don't find it too roly poly, except on some of our more testing mountain roads.

I've also had the clutch judder problem. I believe it's more to do with damp rather than oil, and having approached our local dealer, they contacted Honda Austria, and the answer was to use more revs (c.1500) when manoevering from cold - counter intuitive, but definitely helps. The problem clears after 5-10 minutes. Whether it's the truth, or whether it's oil, will never be known!

The slightly worrying thing is that I've noticed two or three passive regens recently, which were the exception up until two or three months ago. This engine, from what I understand from SLO and other sources, is normally considered better than most DPF-equipped diesels at keeping itself clean, and I don't believe our journey pattern has changed, so it's something I'll need to keep and eye on.

I've written some more detailed reviews in the Owners Reviews section on this site, and kept them updated.

Our lease ends next October, and I now have a few dilemmas regarding replacement. I'm tempted to buy it, but it's a manual, and SWMBO, despite driving manuals for years with the exception of our previous car (Saab 9-5) which we had for 8 years and 160,000 miles), seems to struggle with selecting the appropriate gear, and I'm not sure if my nerves can stand another manual ;-). The next part of the dilemma is petrol or diesel, or even hybrid. Currently thinking perhaps Peugeot 3008 1.2 auto, but have heard no good reports of the all-digital dash, with too much being hidden in sub-menus. Like the idea of the VW 1.4TSi, but not keen on the cars we could afford that it's fitted to, given we'd like another SUV type vehicle, and there is the DSG auto issue to contend with. We're not overloaded with cash, and the easy way out would be to just buy this car, but being manual and diesel, it's not ideal. Still, there's another year to contemplate this particular brainteaser.

A bland farewell - SLO76
A week in and the replacement Avensis is proving to be exactly as it initially appeared, pretty much the perfect used family car. There’s nothing wrong at all, not even a rattle or that annoying judder from the clutch the CRV suffered from.

It’s smooth, not as gutless as I expected and is easily exceeding 40mpg on a run with a best so far of just over 45mpg though I’ve yet to verify the accuracy of the trip computer, the Honda’s was very close to reality. It’s well put together but the interior plastics are certainly a step down from the carved from granite CRV though they’re no worse than any other mainstream rival or the previous gen Mercedes E class I looked at which I found very disappointing for the money.

It’s early days yet but I find it hard to think of a better big family Estate for under £5,000. There’s no turbo to worry about, no timing belt change looming, no complex automated manual gearbox. It’s well built, has an excellent NCAP score, is hugely spacious, decent on fuel and drives far better than previous generations of Avensis though the ride is a little firmer than it once was, this makes for less body roll and greater high speed stability but it’s a little fidgety around town compared to the CRV.

I’m enjoying having no monthly payment to think about and both the insurance and servicing costs will be lower though the road tax is £175 more. It’ll save thousands every year... until swmbo’s demands for a Volvo XC60 get overwhelming.
A bland farewell - gordonbennet

An Avensis estate would have long been parked on our drive had it not been for the electric parking brake, something i cannot and will not have, quite why they went down this route whilst keeping the normal brake on Auris and the foot operated version on Prius i shall never know...fortunately yours has had the calipers replaced which won't have been cheap, you had an exceptional buy SLO and i'm pleased if didn't go into the trade so some salessuit could make a quick £1500/2000 over the course of a weekend.

That size of car make for really good estate cars, and i've long been of the view that Hyundai/Kia missed out on substantial sales by not having estate versions of Sonata/Magentis, again one of those who have been on our drive had they seen the market.

The problem with so many others estates is that they are overlong and wide, Merc E Class, Mondeo, Insignia, Mazda 6 and of course the gigantic Superb, arguably Ceed was decent estate but that was a smaller segment base car altogether, and the i40 almost all having Diesel engines.

The saloon/hatch Avensis isn't the worlds best looker and facelifting only made it worse IMHO, the estate looked right from the word go and i'm rather surprised more estates were not sold, quite why the boardroom passes ungainly designs for production will always remain a mystery to me, good looking cars sell well those that arn't don't, unless they have the right badge, then it seems not to matter.

A bland farewell - John F

Looks a v wise buy; excellent VFM - always at the top of my list of desirabilities. Looking forward to a 10yr/+100,000m update!

A bland farewell - SLO76

Looks a v wise buy; excellent VFM - always at the top of my list of desirabilities. Looking forward to a 10yr/+100,000m update!

Quite likely as it’ll be kept as a second motor when i do buy something to appease the boss eventually. It’s too useful to get rid of.
A bland farewell - gordonbennet

Quite likely as it’ll be kept as a second motor when i do buy something to appease the boss eventually. It’s too useful to get rid of.

Do i sense a weakening of resistance already?

I could send you one of my safety helmets we are issued at work, they have most effective ear defenders attached, visor too which you could 'polish' with some glass paper and be unable to see ''the look''

:-)

A bland farewell - SLO76
“Do i sense a weakening of resistance already?

I could send you one of my safety helmets we are issued at work, they have most effective ear defenders attached, visor too which you could 'polish' with some glass paper and be unable to see ''the look''

:-)”


Be much appreciated. “The look” could burn through any known plastic or glass however.
A bland farewell - SLO76
Final bill in from Lex autolease and all fair and square, no attempt to bill me for minor scuffs and stone chips, just the excess mileage charge so fair enough I’d use them again if leasing, the price was certainly good.
 

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