Rough sounding cars - P3t3r

I've noticed that a lot of modern performance cars sound really rough/noisey. What's the reason for this, has the law or technology changed recently to allow this. eg. BMW M, Mercedes AMG, Lambourgini, Ford ST.

I would never buy one of these vechiles simply because the noise is so awful. I would need to always drive gently around town and would never enjoy using the power. I'd need to drive it gently for it to be bareable.

I was behind a recent Mustang GT today. It not only sounded awful but was also accelerating far slower than everything else. I guess you would need ear plugs to keep up with traffic?

I believe many of them have valves in the exhaust. Surely a solid exhauast pipe would be far more efficient than a valve? I also have doubts about the reliability of these when you consider the amount of heat in them.

What kind of people drive these vehicles? Anti-social people I guess?

Rough sounding cars - Volts

All part of the performance mantra these days since speed is a no no you have to give the impression of speed through noise. Was it a 5 litre Mustang you were behind (can you even tell)

Rough sounding cars - corax

Cars sound more 'controlled' then they used to. They sound strangled to me. Obviously they are powerful, but rather than a lairy engine that is a bit too powerful for the chassis, they seem too computer controlled to really be fun.

I miss the raw sound of the old air cooled Porsche 911's, or the TVR Griffiths. The valve flap in the exhaust is just not the same.

Rough sounding cars - drd63

I've got a 2017 5.0l Mustang with a Roush exhaust. No valves and it certainly doesn't sound strangled or overly controlled. Manual gearbox, rwd and not overloaded with electronic aids. A proper sports car but very comfy and relaxing for long journeys, inside it's very quiet at a cruise. I've had more compliments on the Mustang in a year from passers by and strangers than any car I've ever owned. I've even had two coppers on bikes asking me to rev it when stuck in traffic at a town carnival. In general and with the exception of some posters on this thread it's a car that makes people, especially me, smile. Yes it's got more performance than you can use on UK roads but that's what track days and autobahns are for.

Rough sounding cars - John F

Cars sound more 'controlled' then they used to. They sound strangled to me.....

....I miss the raw sound of the old air cooled Porsche 911's, or the TVR Griffiths. The valve flap in the exhaust is just not the same.

V8 engines are intrinsically rough, even with a flat plane crank, because they are inherently unbalanced. Many bhp are absorbed in keeping them quiet. My 6.0l 12cyl engine has electronically controlled flaps in two of its four tailpipes for serenity, but at >50% engine load and >2,500revs they open, producing a satisfying howl that would be tiresome if persistent.

Rough sounding cars - drd63

You've hit the nail on the head and regardless of controlled exhaust or not, multi cylinder large capacity engines sound great under load and at high revs. V8's are inherently unbalanced but at low revs it does give them that lovely off beat burble. I can't agree with the OP about modern cars sounding rough, even all of the new triples on the market sound pretty good, my Aygo has great character when revved hard (which does need to be often).

Rough sounding cars - badbusdriver

Cars sound more 'controlled' then they used to. They sound strangled to me.....

....I miss the raw sound of the old air cooled Porsche 911's, or the TVR Griffiths. The valve flap in the exhaust is just not the same.

V8 engines are intrinsically rough, even with a flat plane crank, because they are inherently unbalanced. Many bhp are absorbed in keeping them quiet. My 6.0l 12cyl engine has electronically controlled flaps in two of its four tailpipes for serenity, but at >50% engine load and >2,500revs they open, producing a satisfying howl that would be tiresome if persistent.

That reminds me of something I didn't note down on my recent Cadillac thread. Can't remember the year (am out of the house at work just now), but they developed balancer shafts (I think one for each bank of cylinders) to make their V8 as smooth as a straight 8.

Also, literally as I typed the above, a Cobra (presumably a replica) has just burbled past the car park I'm parked in!.

Rough sounding cars - bathtub tom
That reminds me of something I didn't note down on my recent Cadillac thread. Can't remember the year (am out of the house at work just now), but they developed balancer shafts (I think one for each bank of cylinders) to make their V8 as smooth as a straight 8.

I think you'll find Lanchester can take the credit for balance shafts. That's why they're also called Lanchester shafts.

Rough sounding cars - badbusdriver
That reminds me of something I didn't note down on my recent Cadillac thread. Can't remember the year (am out of the house at work just now), but they developed balancer shafts (I think one for each bank of cylinders) to make their V8 as smooth as a straight 8.

I think you'll find Lanchester can take the credit for balance shafts. That's why they're also called Lanchester shafts.

Cadillac might not have been the first to use balancer shafts (and i didn't mean to imply that), but i think they were the first to put them in a V8, for the reasons my post was referring to.

Rough sounding cars - focussed

A 90 degree vee engine has perfect primary balance.

A 90 degree V8 with a crossplane counterbalanced crank is smoother than a V6 and an inline 6. IE most everyday V8s.

I think you are confusing flatplane and crossplane cranks.

A V8 with a flatpane crank is effectively two straight fours on a common crankshaft with similar vibration characteristics.

Rough sounding cars - bathtub tom

A 90 degree vee engine has perfect primary balance.

A 90 degree V8 with a crossplane counterbalanced crank is smoother than a V6 and an inline 6. IE most everyday V8s.

I think you are confusing flatplane and crossplane cranks.

A V8 with a flatpane crank is effectively two straight fours on a common crankshaft with similar vibration characteristics.

I recall the late LJK Setright describing a 90degree V8 as having uneven firing intervals (I think he described it as having a flat plane crankshaft). After sitting down and thinking about it, I couldn't understand why such a 90 degree V8 wouldn't have equal firing intervals.

I can understand why a straight four's unbalnced due to the angular acceleration of the pistons.

Rough sounding cars - Avant

I'm sure that DRD's Mustang is the 'real thing'. But there are a lot of cars where a loud 'look at me, I'm butch' exhaust noise can be turned on electronically at the press of a button. That seems bogus to me.

Rough sounding cars - Leif

A colleague has a BMW 4 Series and loves to go through tunnels, and give it some welly. I find the noise from these things irritating. Sure the owner wants to advertise the size of his todger, err I mean engine, but all the while? How can you live with it? Then again these cars are impractical. They struggle over speed humps, they don't have much space for shopping, the ride is probably a bit hard, the cabin often does not have the comfort of a modest car, surely these are best hired at track days?

Rough sounding cars - Falkirk Bairn

A son sold his M3 a few weeks back - "performance exhaust" was a £4k extra - back box went @ 30 months & he had to argue for a free replacment under warranty. Eventually fixed.

Neighbours appreciated the car going as he leaves for work @ 6.30 to get there in 30 minutes rather than 75 mins or so after the rush hour starts at 7am.

Sold this noise monster & bought a Discovery - he is not on first name terms with the workshop manager but it's getting that way - things go wrong, diagnosed but parts are on back order/slow boat from China/India?

Rough sounding cars - davecooper

Never mind, EV's will take all the noise away.

Rough sounding cars - SteVee

I remember the early M3s - they had a nice 'purposeful' sound and I thought were classy. The modern brash ones are horrible - though not as bad as AMGs. The Mustang sounds right with cross-plane V8, I don't think the euro-boxes do. Some big auto SUVs make an enormous amount of noise to move very slowly, especially over speed bumps

I've done enough work on noise - both traffic surveys and in the lab calibrating noise meters for legal use to know that all this noise is a real nuisance. I think vehicles that are modified to be more noisy should get one warning and then be scrapped if they are caught again - but then again I know from my noise-meter days that this is a very difficult area.

I know some motorcyclists think they are 'safer' on noisy bikes (& scooters) - but that's just an excuse. I've been out with enough class 1 bikers to know that noise does not equate to safety.

No vehicle makes a 'nice noise' when the world around you is too noisy, and that's the case for the majority

Rough sounding cars - badbusdriver

A couple of points.

First regarding SUV's, one of my customers has one of those fancy Range Rovers, SVR i think it is, well in my opinion it is an awful thing, too loud, too uncouth, belching and f***ing all over the place. I'm sure many love it (particularly young or immature males, like my older brother!), each to their own and all that, but not for me. I don't mind a V8 rumble, don't get me wrong, but not overpowering like that, i'd rather just a low throb, a hint of menace.

As for motorbikes, that is a joke, as you don't really hear them till they zoom past doing some ridiculous speed, scaring the bejesus out of you (especially if you are trundling along, minding your own business driving a near empty bus, and didn't see it coming ((guilty)) !!!

Rough sounding cars - John F

Sure the owner wants to advertise the size of his todger, err I mean engine, but all the while? How can you live with it?

Automotive priapism - and just as uncomfortable!

Rough sounding cars - Avant

How much more distinguished - even 'cool' - to have all that performance and be able to use it in near-silence. If money were no object, a Bentley or a Tesla would achieve that holy grail: fortunately you can have a BMW straight-six for much less, and this makes just enough noise to be fun.

Rough sounding cars - drd63

This is a bit hypocritical given that I do have a loud car but it would be tiresome if all cars were loud. I make no excuses about loving internal combustion engines though and like to hear a variety of noises appropriate to the car. Avant is right about BMW straight 6 petrols and even the diesel 6 is OK. Things which do grate though, 125cc 4 stroke single motorbikes with straight through exhaust, all noise no performance. DCT VAG engined cars and the engineered in f**ting noise on upshifts. General clatter and rumble from numerous diesels in town. If you've been to the US it's amazing how much quieter slow moving city traffic is. As for Teslas, I know acceleration wise they can knock spots off of my Stang but I just can't feel anything for electric cars, maybe familiarity will change that.

Rough sounding cars - Manatee

I'd be too self-conscious, embarrassed at being a nuisance even, to drive some of these things.

Take the Mercedes CLA250 AMG. Ling's Cars today has a Facebook post about a customer who has just leased one and it makes a ruttling, rasping, resonating noise that his neighbours are actually questioning the legality of.

A 4 or 5 litre, unboosted V8 petrol makes a rumbling, burbling noise quite naturally. A 2 litre turbocharged petrol family car with fashionably lowered suspension and Carlos Fandango wheels does not. It would have been very easy to make it whisper quiet, because it would naturally be that way - the induction noise is damped by the compressor, the intercooler and all that tubing. The sound of the exhaust pulse is reduced and smoothed by the turbine before it even gets to the exhaust silencer.

Mercedes must have had to try really hard to get that unnatural racket out of it. Presumably it has some programmed pops and crackles too. They might just as well have used a synthesiser, amplifier and some big speakers to get it right. It has nothing to do with the power plant.

The customer and his neighbours might not like it, but their 12 year-old sons must love it.

Edited by Manatee on 24/08/2018 at 00:55

Rough sounding cars - bathtub tom

My Yaris has a nice raspberry sound when cold, not loud, but amplified by the garage when starting it up in there.

Rough sounding cars - mss1tw

Great post Manatee - very perceptive and the technical details were intersting. I never knew they were just a 4 pot either. After looking that up I see they're FWD as standard too!

I'm sure they could have made it quiet, but then who would be looking at you?

I don't find them to be particularly classy cars anymore. The 'budget' versions anyway. As you say just 'look at me' and shouty. Class whispers, as the saying goes.

Rough sounding cars - Metropolis.

I find the sound of 4cyl diesels particularly offensive. Unrefined without copious amounts of sound deadening, completely void of character, serve no real purpose other than mundane propulsion of econobox vehicles. At least a 5 cylinder produces a nice deep warble to make up for the vibrations at idle. A V8, despite being inherently imbalanced, is invariably smoother owing to the number of cylinders, and what a glorious sound!

I find turbo 4 cylinder petrol cars from Mercedes, Ford, VW etc tend to sound like the souped up Civics and Saxo's of yesteryear..

Rough sounding cars - mss1tw

The diesel V8 in various Range Rovers and Audis sound pretty decent

Although no manufacturer would waste time and money developing and fitting such an engine in an econobox, crossplane inline 4s sound great

Rough sounding cars - badbusdriver

Many years ago i worked at a hotel in the lake district, one of the locals who frequented the pub attatched to the hotel, ran an old Nissan Patrol. It had a 3.2 litre n/a straight 6 diesel and i loved the engine note!.

Also, the recent posts on this thread put me in mind of not quite so long ago when working at a VW dealer. I had the opportunity to drive 2 Passat's on a run of 32 miles each, taking one from the garage to Aberdeen and the other back to the garage. On the way there i had a 1.9 TDI (130 BHP) and on the way back, a 2.5 V6 TDI (150 BHP). Although there wasn't a big difference in overall performance, there was a huge difference in the way they delivered it, and the refinement. The 1.9 actually felt quicker off the mark, but it seemed to deliver all it's grunt in one great dollop low down in the rev range, and there was absolutely no pleasure to be had in taking it beyond about 2500. The 2.5 delivered it's power over a broader rev range, and had a much nicer, creamier and more cultured note.

Rough sounding cars - bathtub tom

I find the sound of 4cyl diesels particularly offensive.

There was a refuse truck around here that had a particularly distinctive 'rasp'. I quite liked it.

Rough sounding cars - dan86

I find the sound of 4cyl diesels particularly offensive.

There was a refuse truck around here that had a particularly distinctive 'rasp'. I quite liked it.

That would most likely of been a straight 6

Rough sounding cars - veloceman
I had a new Alfa 156 diesel in the early 00’s.
The 2.4 5 cylinder engine was a treat. Lovely noise and loads of torque.
Much better than the rattley Giulia 2.2 I drove the other day.

Rough sounding cars - badbusdriver

I find the sound of 4cyl diesels particularly offensive.

There was a refuse truck around here that had a particularly distinctive 'rasp'. I quite liked it.

That would most likely of been a straight 6

Depends, maybe not, especially if it was a smaller one. For the last couple of years I was driving buses we had a couple of Denis Dart low floor town buses and they had 4cyl engines. Denis also, I think, make refuse trucks.

But thinking about trucks got me reminiscing even further back through the mists of time. One of the trucks my Dad drove when I was a kid in the Shetland Islands was a Magirus Deutz tipper truck. It had an air cooled V8 diesel and a lovely engine note!

Rough sounding cars - bathtub tom

Someone will mention the howl from supercharged, 2-stroke, Commer diesels soon.

Rough sounding cars - badbusdriver

Someone will mention the howl from supercharged, 2-stroke, Commer diesels soon.

Travelling in Australia I spent about 12 hours on a bus, which had a 'Detroit diesel', isn't that something similar?. Certainly had a distinctive note!.

But if I want hear an engine to make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up, I go on YouTube and search 'BRM V16'. What an incredible noise one of those makes!.

Rough sounding cars - dan86

I find the sound of 4cyl diesels particularly offensive.

There was a refuse truck around here that had a particularly distinctive 'rasp'. I quite liked it.

That would most likely of been a straight 6

Depends, maybe not, especially if it was a smaller one. For the last couple of years I was driving buses we had a couple of Denis Dart low floor town buses and they had 4cyl engines. Denis also, I think, make refuse trucks.

But thinking about trucks got me reminiscing even further back through the mists of time. One of the trucks my Dad drove when I was a kid in the Shetland Islands was a Magirus Deutz tipper truck. It had an air cooled V8 diesel and a lovely engine note!

Would have to be a very small one 7.5 tone as our smallest 12 toners are 6 cylinder. Even the Dennis we had on hire were all 6 cylinder Cummins engins.

Rough sounding cars - Engineer Andy

I find that a lot of modern cars sound like vacuum cleaners on steroids.