any - stop-start systems - Mr Carrot Cake

My Leon is the first car I've had with stop-start. I find that very often the engine only shuts off for a few seconds before it has to start up again. Is it really saving fuel?

any - stop-start systems - daveyjp
Regardless of how long it is off, if an engine isn’t running it isn’t using fuel. QED you are saving fuel.

any - stop-start systems - Mr Carrot Cake

So start up doesnt use extra?

any - stop-start systems - craig-pd130

So start up doesnt use extra?

With modern fuel-injection systems, no. Also the stop/start system will usually only stop the engine when it's at the right temperature for easy restarts.

any - stop-start systems - bathtub tom

So start up doesnt use extra?

Yes, to a degree. The battery energy used to re-start the engine has to be replaced by the alternator which places an extra load on the engine which means extra fuel is used to do this.

How long an engine has to be stopped to be economical - how long's a piece of string?

any - stop-start systems - mcb100
Stop-start will always look after itself - i.e. it monitors battery voltage to ensure it’s sufficient to restart. Cold weather inevitably means blower/heated rear window/heated seats/lights and all manner of electrical ancillaries switched on, depleting the battery. As the weather warms, you’ll find it’ll be stopped for longer.
any - stop-start systems - gordonbennet

Whether its worth the faff, the complicated electronics, the rather expensive battery, the hesitation before moving off, and the as yet unknown long term effects, is questionable.

I wouldn't give you a thankyou for the system and any time i've driven a vehicle so fitted try my best to find the off switch, but as part of an integrated hybrid where the vehicle primarily starts moving on battery power and the engine assists when required, well that's a different thing altogether.

any - stop-start systems - Nomag

I too have just purchased a new (to me) Leon.The only thing that seems to be wrong with it is the message "stop start error" on the display. Saves me the hassle of remembering to turn it off every time I start the vehicle...:)

The way I see it, these systems have been conceived mainly to fit with the demand for lowering CO2 output (on paper) . They seem to involve complex starter motors as well as batteries and do nothing for fuel economy for me, but I guess if you drove in stop start traffic all the time it might help. Although, I would imagine in such circumstances a Hybrid would be entirely more suitable.

The system on my wifes Sorrento, which is an Auto, is downright dangerous if left switched on. Imagine you are stopped at a roundabout momentarily, foot on brake in D, off goes the engine, just as you were removing foot from brake to throttle to move away. What results is a significant hesitation which could so easily be the cause of an accident. We turn it off as soon as we start the car,but occasionally you forget! I wish the default setting could be off, not on.

Apparently in my manual Leon (were the sytem working) it would only shut off the engine in neutral which would make it entirely safer, I can't understand the mentality of the Kia system on an Auto which can shut off in D, but guess it could be similar on other autos, as drivers tend to sit in D on the footbrake in traffic.

I shall have to take the Leon to a dealership shortly for a warranty fix,but I certainly wouldn't be worrying if it were out of warranty, but here's a question,would a vehicle with stop start fail an MOT were this system not to be operating?

any - stop-start systems - FP

"They seem to involve complex starter motors as well as batteries and do nothing for fuel economy for me..."

Complex starter motors - I'm not sure about this, but I can't see why a S/S start motor needs to be complex. More robust, perhaps.

Batteries - Not all S/S systems rely on the normal battery. The Mazda system uses a large condenser to hold enough electricity to do the job, and the normal battery is not involved.

Fuel economy - I can't believe re-starting the car takes a significant amount of fuel.

Although I've not run a car with S/S until now, I have no problems with it, and when I check the total number of minutes and hours it has been in operation over the last few months I reckon it's saving a significant amount of fuel.

any - stop-start systems - NARU
... I can't understand the mentality of the Kia system on an Auto which can shut off in D, but guess it could be similar on other autos, as drivers tend to sit in D on the footbrake in traffic.

My Kia has 'autohold', which keeps the footbrake on when I'm stopped. I can take my foot off the brake pedal, and the car won't move. Its still in 'D', but I'm guessing there must be a clutch on the transmission as it doesn't seem to be straining to go the way that cars of old used to. The only time it gets caught out is on a downwards slope, where I don't need any accelerator.

The stop/start will also work with autohold. When the lights turn green there is the slightest delay when I put my foot on the accelerator, as the engine restarts. The brakes release as I start to move.

All in all, two systems that work well together. The only negative is that the brake lights stay on with autohold - that must annoy the driver behind.

any - stop-start systems - gordonbennet

My Kia has 'autohold', which keeps the footbrake on when I'm stopped. I can take my foot off the brake pedal, and the car won't move. Its still in 'D', but I'm guessing there must be a clutch on the transmission as it doesn't seem to be straining to go the way that cars of old used to. The only time it gets caught out is on a downwards slope, where I don't need any accelerator.

The stop/start will also work with autohold. When the lights turn green there is the slightest delay when I put my foot on the accelerator, as the engine restarts. The brakes release as I start to move.

All in all, two systems that work well together. The only negative is that the brake lights stay on with autohold - that must annoy the driver behind.

The only experience of have of hill hold on a car is the tranmssion locking device which prevented my W124 Mercs of 80's/90's rolling back no matter how steep the hill, my120 Landcruiser appears to do similar, not sure what SWMBO Outback does.

It's fitted to many lorries and has been for some 15 years, it's the very first thing i disable when i get into someone elses vehicle, it has no place in a lorry (and i'm not terribly convinced about cars either) where the driver and only the driver should be in control, though it must be said that some incompetent drivers of any and all types of vehicle seem incapable of actually controlling the things without such.

The problem being people come to rely on these devices doing increasingly more for them and vegetate to just attending the steering wheel, which is all very well but the next stage is not applying the parking brake when exiting, hence those who need such things also need an automatic parking brake now, and on lorries in particular the holl hold will release after a few seconds, timed for the typical power take up after releasing the brake and applying throttle and the usual automated manual having a vote on what to do...i've known of cases where drivers have pulled up got out forgetting the parking brake or not noticing it's not engaged fully, and after they've got 10 steps from the vehicle the hill hold has released and away she goes whichever way is down.

The other problem is drivers relying on these complicated electronic devices and what happens when they start to play up.

any - stop-start systems - KJP 123

I think what was being asked is if the fuel saving is significant or worthwhile. That obviously depends on what % of the journey you spend stationary. In a small USA test it was as much as 10%.

Now, I have read that an expensive battery is needed but also that a capacitor restarts: maybe different systems.

But it’s the comment about hesitation before moving off that intrigues me. Some years ago I had a small Fiat with this feature on hire . At traffic lights it would switch off when you put it in neutral and let the clutch up, starting again when you put the clutch down to engage gear. So ready to go when you let the clutch up ( at least on a car that starts readily). At a junction where you would likely hold the clutch down waiting for a gap I don’t think that it switched off.

Not sure how it would work with an automatic though.

[Edit] I wrote my post after reading Gordonbennet’s but before Nomag’s appeared. Really answers my query. Ok on normal manual but not good on (any?) auto.

Edited by KJP 123 on 05/02/2018 at 00:41

any - stop-start systems - geordie33

My previous car a manual Leon had this and I had no problems with hesitation.My new Golf DSG (wait for the howls of derision) also has it and the way it interacts with the box is amazing.I think I once read that you had to be stopped for a certain length of time for it to save fuel.Cannot remember how long but certainly under a minute.

Edited by geordie33 on 05/02/2018 at 08:49

any - stop-start systems - skidpan

Had 4 cars now with Stop/Start and over those 10 years I would guess I have saved a couple of cups of fuel. But over that period I have saved about £1000 in VED (comparing the pre Stop/Strat version with the version we had).

That is a saving worth having.

All in the past now for new cars since its flat rate VED. Will still make a huge difference to company car drivers since the BIK is based on the emmisions.

any - stop-start systems - Engineer Andy

Had 4 cars now with Stop/Start and over those 10 years I would guess I have saved a couple of cups of fuel. But over that period I have saved about £1000 in VED (comparing the pre Stop/Strat version with the version we had).

That is a saving worth having.

All in the past now for new cars since its flat rate VED. Will still make a huge difference to company car drivers since the BIK is based on the emmisions.

True - I think the best situation is to have a car with it and, if its available (i.e. has a button on the dash, not disabling it via the electronics in the engine), switch it off, whether permanently or at least (if it resets to 'default on' every time you switch the engine on) per trip.

The only time I think its of any use is in very heavy traffic (not just stop-start where you're stopped for only a minute tops) where you'd be stopped for a good few minutes, but the weather means you don't need to use either the heater or A/C, which presumably would auto-start the engine as it would quickly deplete the battery.

any - stop-start systems - Glaikit Wee Scunner {P}

The system in my Skoda Octavia 1.4tsi has worked once over the last 3 months, despite several long runs.. The garage has checked the car over and everything was diagnosed OK. I do get warnings about low 12V battery charge on occasion, which is also said to be OK.

If this persists in the warmer weather after a really long drive then I will be back to Skoda.

The road tax is only £30 per annum, so as above , this is a decent overall saving.

Edited by Glaikit Wee Scunner {P} on 05/02/2018 at 12:04

any - stop-start systems - barney100

My car has it and I don't like it one little bit, first thing I do on start up is switch it off. Must wear the starter out quicker.

any - stop-start systems - sandy56

All cars fitted with a stop/start system have uprated starters.

I am no fan of stop start and will turn it off as soon as I can, but does it make a difference to fuel consumption? Only if you drive in the city all the time.

If I have to drive in the city I would want an automatic.

A non solution to the problem of driving in cities.

any - stop-start systems - Mike H

All cars fitted with a stop/start system have uprated starters.

I am no fan of stop start and will turn it off as soon as I can, but does it make a difference to fuel consumption? Only if you drive in the city all the time.

If I have to drive in the city I would want an automatic.

A non solution to the problem of driving in cities.

Everyone here seems very focussed on the issue of whether stop-start systems save fuel, but in cities it's also important to consider the reduction in harmful emissions that they provide. Forgetting the proposed migration to electric vehicles, as more and more vehicles have the systems the reduction becomes significant. And despite the "I don't like them, I turn them off" mantra here, there doesn't seem to be any evidence of them being problematic to any significant degree.

As a sideline, the alternator is used as a starter motor in some stop-start systems, so the load isn't all on the starter:

www.mechanexpert.com/how-do-stop-start-systems-wor.../

any - stop-start systems - Engineer Andy

All cars fitted with a stop/start system have uprated starters.

I am no fan of stop start and will turn it off as soon as I can, but does it make a difference to fuel consumption? Only if you drive in the city all the time.

If I have to drive in the city I would want an automatic.

A non solution to the problem of driving in cities.

Everyone here seems very focussed on the issue of whether stop-start systems save fuel, but in cities it's also important to consider the reduction in harmful emissions that they provide. Forgetting the proposed migration to electric vehicles, as more and more vehicles have the systems the reduction becomes significant. And despite the "I don't like them, I turn them off" mantra here, there doesn't seem to be any evidence of them being problematic to any significant degree.

As a sideline, the alternator is used as a starter motor in some stop-start systems, so the load isn't all on the starter:

www.mechanexpert.com/how-do-stop-start-systems-wor.../

Mike - all electric vehicles do is move the pollution from the car exhaust pipe to the chimney of the power station, i.e. from the urban areas to the countryside, including additional pollution because of the electrical efficiency losses of transmission to the urban charging points.

Additionally, the electrical energy required to re-start a car in start-stop 'off' mode' has to come from somewhere, and if, say in an urban setting where it could be used a lot, the stored electrical energy in the car will quickly dissapoate and will need to be generated again/topped up to keep the system working, and the only way it can do that is making the engine work harder, burning more fuel and producing more pollutants in between stops.

I personally believe that start-stop systems are only worthwhile from a pollution and mpg saving standpoint when the car is stopped for significanlty more than a couple of minutes in heavy traffic (say a major jam on a road that you can't turn around or off of to go another route, e.g. a motorway or dual carriageway), which, quite frankly, is no different to what many people would (and should) do if they are stuck in a jam, perhaps excluding the coldest of conditions, even without having a stop-start system.

any - stop-start systems - Mr Carrot Cake

I'm not sure electrical vehicles are as disappointing as you make out. Power stations are more efficient than internal combustion engines. Also in this country a good proportion of electricity is produced from renewable sources - hydro, wind and solar, and this will keep rising.

Edited by Mr Carrot Cake on 08/02/2018 at 20:31

any - stop-start systems - Engineer Andy

I'm not sure electrical vehicles are as disappointing as you make out. Power stations are more efficient than internal combustion engines. Also in this country a good proportion of electricity is produced from renewable sources - hydro, wind and solar, and this will keep rising.

At the power station itself, yes, but not so much if you include transmission and transformer losses, never mind the reduction in battery efficiency over their life, say 8-10 years. Don't forget that the vast majority of 'renewnable' energy depends on the weather and environment:

If its not windy or too windy, then wind turbines will not operate (the second for safety reasons) - no electricity generated;

If its not sunny, then PV panels won't produce much electricity either;

Hydro-electric power stations are only really suitable for certain geographic locations in the UK - the 'traditional' type in mountainous areas, limiting their scope, likely requiring to flood areas for the lakes required, and meaning they are a long way from the populations they serve, increasing transmission losses and increasing the build cost, whereas sea and estuary-based tidal systems have been shown to still be problematic as to the technical side (at present), but also are not very conducive to the local environment (river/sea wildlife and plants), fishing and river/sea traffic routes, depending upon their scope.

I'm not saying none of the above issues will be overcome, but at present, we are, in my view, nowhere near the time that electric vehicles can be used as a environmentally-friendly alternative to fossil-fuelled ones (never mind all the energy required to make them, including many very hazardous [to the environment] and increasingly rare chameicals and elements required to make the high-output batteries). You have to consider other things than just what comes out of the exhaust pipe (or not).

any - stop-start systems - focussed

The overall efficiency of a thermal power station is about on a par with a decent diesel car engine, and the contribution of the so-called renewables is very small, less than ten percent.

As said, the main attraction of electric cars is to move the pollution from the car to the power station chimney.

any - stop-start systems - Alltrack7

I have a golf diesel dsg (urgghh from most drivers I suspect) with stop/start. It works perfectly well and is unobstrutive most of the time with a very quick start up. Despite VW assurance (if u believe them) that the electrical system has been beefed up to cope with long term stop/starts, I take the view that the likely damage to the car for "short" stops outweigh the fuel benefits. Therefore, I generally deactivate the stop/start system when I first jump into the car and only reactivate it for traffic jams and longer hold ups. Just a question of personal choice.

any - stop-start systems - skidpan

The system in my Skoda Octavia 1.4tsi has worked once over the last 3 months,

Thats probably because of the cold temps and extra drain on the battery from lights etc. Come March/April all should be back to normal.

Having said the the stop/start on my 1.4 TSi Superb had been about 75% fine over the winter which is about the norm for cars we have had in the past (except the Note which is very flaky).

any - stop-start systems - Mr Carrot Cake

Hmm, Mine has been working every day in the last month even down at -3.5 degrees with the headlights on.

Incidentally I tend to turn the headlights off before it restarts then switch them on again afterwards.

any - stop-start systems - nailit

Another useful thread;

www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/121582/any---stop-...t

any - stop-start systems - pd

As mentioned above, walk through any UK town or city at about 5.10pm and it will be full of cars sitting idling stationary at traffic lights chucking out crap.

Try standing by the road or driving a convertable through a town at rush hour and your eyes will soon be streaming. It is like driving a car with a failed manifold.

These engines do not need to be running in this situation. I appreciate it may have other energy use effects elsewhere but if we are to have traffic congestion we'll have areas of high concentrated pollution and if we can reduce them using technology why not?

any - stop-start systems - nailit

Edited by nailit on 08/02/2018 at 14:50

any - stop-start systems - Energyman
I have had stop start on last two cars, no problems, just need to pay attention to the traffic lights or traffic ahead then no delay problems.
First had it on a VW Polo Fomel E in the mid eighties , 30 odd years ago so it's not that new an idea!
You could turn that one off permanently though.
any - stop-start systems - mss1tw

As mentioned above, walk through any UK town or city at about 5.10pm and it will be full of cars sitting idling stationary at traffic lights chucking out crap.

Try standing by the road or driving a convertable through a town at rush hour and your eyes will soon be streaming. It is like driving a car with a failed manifold.

These engines do not need to be running in this situation. I appreciate it may have other energy use effects elsewhere but if we are to have traffic congestion we'll have areas of high concentrated pollution and if we can reduce them using technology why not?

I rode into London and filtered through miles of tail backs, morning and evening, for a year a half.

I didn't notice any symptoms at all

In these cars I wonder if the catalytic convertor will reach temp slower and they will also run richer for longer

any - stop-start systems - NARU
...

These engines do not need to be running in this situation. I appreciate it may have other energy use effects elsewhere but if we are to have traffic congestion we'll have areas of high concentrated pollution and if we can reduce them using technology why not?

I generally disable the stop start if I'm driving to/from work (mostly open countryside, as I take the back route). It stops the system cutting in a the two sets of traffic lights, where I'm normally stopped for less than 10 seconds. I figure stopped for 10 seconds adds little environmental or fuel benefit.

I leave it enabled if I'm heading to the city. But it will often only cut the engine out for the first three or four times I'm stopped, before deciding to leave the engine running. Presumably to protect the battery.

any - stop-start systems - SLO76
Stop start is a money pit waiting to swallow unwary buyers of older motors. I’ve seen the cost involved in replacing these updated starters and it’s eye watering. £800 plus in many cases! Plus stopping a turbocharged engine while the turbo is burning white hot and spinning at 100,000 rpm to save a thimble full of fuel is unwise in the extreme. It’ll carbonise the oil. If your car isn’t set up to stop it doing this immediately after stopping from speed then turn the thing off, it’ll eat your turbo and burn a hole in your wallet. I believe these systems are the reason for the huge increase in turbo failures in recent years. I disable the system in our CRV by keeping my foot on the clutch when I feel it’s inappropriate for it to stop.

Edited by SLO76 on 09/02/2018 at 13:10

any - stop-start systems - Nomag

I totally agree SLO and don't trust HJ's opinion that the systems will prevent it shutting down when the turbo is hot. Obviously the 'intelligence' of these systems varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. The Kia system is particularly stupid. Another flaw in it is when stopping at the end of the journey the engine stops sometimes in D or when pushing the lever from D to N. It then always restarts when the lever is pushed to P. You must then switch off as normal. For now the system in my Leon remains non functional which saves me remembering to shut it off!

any - stop-start systems - gordonbennet
If your car isn’t set up to stop it doing this immediately after stopping from speed then turn the thing off, it’ll eat your turbo and burn a hole in your wallet. I believe these systems are the reason for the huge increase in turbo failures in recent years. I disable the system in our CRV by keeping my foot on the clutch when I feel it’s inappropriate for it to stop.

Yes, as with Cyd's in depth advice on turbo care in the stickies in technical, the system shutting things down is not going to add to a long life of such parts as the turbo.

I've covered some 3 million miles in generally well serviced Diesels with turbochargers operating the way Cyd described, i've always allowed the engine and its oil to warm up a bit before asking the turbo to work, always allowed the engine to tick over for a while after driving, so far not a single turbo failure that i can recall, no way would i allow a sensor to say whether the engine should shut down regularly, it's hardly in makers interests for these vehicles to last 20 years trouble free.

any - stop-start systems - corax

I wonder if it would be better to concentrate on reducing vehicle weight to improve emissions over the whole life cost of running an engine rather than saving a small amount of fuel when the vehicle is stationary, does the stop start system not increase the overall weight of the vehicle?

The difference in performance (and no doubt economy) when I take out one passenger seat in my car is hugely noticeable, I wanted to leave it out permanently.

any - stop-start systems - SLO76

I wonder if it would be better to concentrate on reducing vehicle weight to improve emissions over the whole life cost of running an engine rather than saving a small amount of fuel when the vehicle is stationary, does the stop start system not increase the overall weight of the vehicle?

The difference in performance (and no doubt economy) when I take out one passenger seat in my car is hugely noticeable, I wanted to leave it out permanently.

Problem is that today we demand high levels of safety and refinement and to cut weight you’ll have to sacrifice something here without using expensive materials. I often think about how far efficiency has come in my time. My first car, an MG Metro struggled to hit 35mpg day to day yet my current family car, a Honda CRV 1.6 DTEC averages 56mpg and can easily top 60mpg on a run despite weighing vastly more and offering far superior performance and safety. Though I do miss the genuine lightweight mild/hot hatches of the 80’s/90’s. Citroen AX GT, UNO Turbo, R5 GT Turbo, 205 XS/GTI. All were a hoot in a way that’s not possible to replicate today outside of a Lotus Elise.
any - stop-start systems - skidpan

Its been a thought of mine since I bought the Leon 1.4 TSi 140 PS how a Mk 2 Golf GTi would perform with that engine fitted.

The Golf weighed 970 kg with a boat anchor iron engine, the all alloy 1.4 TSi must be lighter. The Golf averaged 33 mpg in normal use, the Leon 45 mpg so with the new engine in the old lighter car both the performance and economy should be stunning.

You never know, it may have been done already.

any - stop-start systems - veloceman
Interestingly the new VW Up Gti still weighs more than the original Golf Gti!
any - stop-start systems - SLO76
Interestingly the new VW Up Gti still weighs more than the original Golf Gti!

All that safety gear adds weight. I remember (I think it was) What Car magazine doing a series of crash tests in the late 80’s or very early 90’s on executive cars with an offset barrier at 35mph I believe. You’d be amazed at how poorly the majority of them performed with only the Volvo 740, BM 5 series and Merc E class leaving the drivers living. Car safety especially smaller hatches in the 80’s was appalling, they had the crash worthiness of a wet paper bag. Do like the idea of a small hot(ish) hatch like the UP! GTI or Swift Sport though, might swap the Polo for one soon now I’m doing much less mileage. I’d love to see a Mk II with a 1.4 TSi but all that complex electronics would make it a difficult swap and original unmolested Mk II GTi’s are worth strong money these days. I loved them too, often ran any part ex’s if we took one in with tax left. Even the 1.6 Driver was a good wee car with only 75bhp.
any - stop-start systems - skidpan

I’d love to see a Mk II with a 1.4 TSi but all that complex electronics would make it a difficult swap

No need to bother with all the VW electronics, do what I did with the Caterham. Fitted a Focus 2 litre Zetec, dumped all the Ford manifolds and electronics and fitted a pair of Jenvey throttle bodies and an MBE ECU. It passes the emmisions test even though they do not apply and with no changes internally the fact that the restrictive Ford parts were removed released the hidden power, it showing about 170-175 now instead of the out of the box 134. Still averages about 34 mpg, with the old carburettored x-flow it did about 25 mpg.

I appreciate it has no turbo but many people fit turbo engines in older car using aftermarket electronics, must be someone out there who does the 1.4 TSi, they definitely do the 1.8 and 2.0 engines.

any - stop-start systems - Energyman

A few days ago i was saying i had no issues with the stop start system on my Nissan Pulsar 1.5 diesel, today the battery died! No warning, mid journey at a stop. Phoned Nissan assistance (RAC) 2 hours later patrol arrived, diagnosed faulty battery having run full diagnostic, got new battery out of van, fitted, ran full diagnostics, sorted under warranty, about 6 weeks before it expired!!. Seems the original batteries, Fiamm, at that time develop a fault, also fitted to Juke and Quashquai at that time. Replaced with Varta same spec.

He ordered a new spare battery to put in his van before he left, lucky escape, good service from Nissan and RAC

any - stop-start systems - SLO76
“do what I did with the Caterham. Fitted a Focus 2 litre Zetec, dumped all the Ford manifolds and electronics and fitted a pair of Jenvey throttle bodies and an MBE ECU. It passes the emmisions test even though they do not apply and with no changes internally the fact that the restrictive Ford parts were removed released the hidden power, it showing about 170-175 now instead of the out of the box 134.”

Must be an absolute hoot to drive. I’d love one as a weekend toy.
any - stop-start systems - focussed
“do what I did with the Caterham. Fitted a Focus 2 litre Zetec, dumped all the Ford manifolds and electronics and fitted a pair of Jenvey throttle bodies and an MBE ECU. It passes the emmisions test even though they do not apply and with no changes internally the fact that the restrictive Ford parts were removed released the hidden power, it showing about 170-175 now instead of the out of the box 134.” Must be an absolute hoot to drive. I’d love one as a weekend toy.

Hmm - get someone to take you for a drive in one first.

I kind of hankered after a Caterham or a Lotus 7 recently. Never been in one before.

Then I got a bloke who was trying to sell his "classic" Lotus 7 - with the twin-cam engine, to give me ride in the thing.

They are crude, noisy, uncomfortable, and cramped, and that's just as a passenger.

I've ridden big powerful motorbikes for years, believe me, a big touring motorbike is more comfortable than a Caterham/Lotus 7 and has much the same level of weather protection, and better performance - just my opinion!

any - stop-start systems - SLO76
“Hmm - get someone to take you for a drive in one first.

I kind of hankered after a Caterham or a Lotus 7 recently. Never been in one before.

Then I got a bloke who was trying to sell his "classic" Lotus 7 - with the twin-cam engine, to give me ride in the thing.

They are crude, noisy, uncomfortable, and cramped, and that's just as a passenger.”

I’ve had a shot of a supercharged Arial Atom before on track and loved it. Neither are exactly comfortable and I wouldn’t want to be a passenger for long in any of these things but to drive they’re great fun.


 

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