Toughest car ever made

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Sat 1 Oct 2016 01:08
Toughest car ever made - SLO76
With all the talk of costly failures on modern turbo diesel cars. DPF, DMF & premature turbo failure, I'm hankering back to a simpler time. The days when a simple well maintained Diesel engine could cover massive mileages with little grief for owners.

I've been in a Nissan Bluebird 2.0dLX with over 1m miles on its original engine, a Mk II Granada 2.5DL with more than 750k, Isuzu engined Cavaliers with 500k upwards, a Peugeot E7 HDI with 850k and I've sold a Toyota Carina 2.0 XLd with 452k which was running and driving fine.

There's a small dealer local to me selling a 1990 Mercedes 250D in poverty spec with low miles that is tempting me to open my wallet. But question is. What was the most robust car ever built? What would you buy if you could only run one car from now on?

Edited by SLO76 on 01/10/2016 at 01:10

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Sat 1 Oct 2016 01:21
Toughest car ever made - nick62
Some of the 60/70s Merc taxis must have been tough cars?

I remember travelling from the airport to central Nairobi in the early nineties in an old black Merc taxi which was probably at least 25 years old then. I wonder if it still going?

Edit: Looks like they all drive Toyotas now! Those Toyota pick-ups are popular in the ME (usually with a machine gun welded in the back).

Edited by nick62 on 01/10/2016 at 01:23

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Sat 1 Oct 2016 01:30
Toughest car ever made - SLO76
Old 2.4 diesel in the Hilux was a hard thing to kill. Sadly the rust protection wasn't up to the job of weathering too many good old Scottish winters. New cars are too big, too complex and bound to be hugely troublesome by their tenth birthday.

Do remember a friend of my Dads having an old 1980 Merc 240TD with the guts of a million miles on it. Must've taken him a while with all of 72bhp under the hood.

Edited by SLO76 on 01/10/2016 at 01:33

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Sat 1 Oct 2016 09:08
Toughest car ever made - NARU
Some of the 60/70s Merc taxis must have been tough cars? I remember travelling from the airport to central Nairobi in the early nineties in an old black Merc taxi which was probably at least 25 years old then. I wonder if it still going? Edit: Looks like they all drive Toyotas now! Those Toyota pick-ups are popular in the ME (usually with a machine gun welded in the back).

Yep, toyota assemble locally.

www.nation.co.ke/business/Toyota-to-expand-Kenya-c...l

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Sat 1 Oct 2016 07:25
Toughest car ever made - Bianconeri
Late 60s Peugeot 404, ruled Africa.
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Sat 1 Oct 2016 09:17
Toughest car ever made - SLO76
Late 60s Peugeot 404, ruled Africa.

In contrast to today Peugeot used to make some of the toughest cars and Diesel engines on the road. 504, 505, 205, 406 and Peugeot engined 2.3 Sierra, 2.5 Granada and Transit could all cover massive mileages. The early 2.0 8v HDI is a legend in the taxi trade, capable 1m miles if cared for. Later 16v units are nothing like as robust and the 1.6 is garbage.
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Sat 1 Oct 2016 10:04
Toughest car ever made - jc2

The range of Peueot engines you mention also included a 1.9,2.1 and a 2.5 turbo.

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Sat 1 Oct 2016 10:08
Toughest car ever made - ExA35Owner

Much of Kenya's vehicle assembly industry has faded. There has been big competition from secondhand imports from Japan and the Middle East - again mainly Japanese-manufactured cars and light commercials. European mass-manufacturers haven't really had much of a foothold, although Mercedes and BMW among others do manage good sales of new vehicles. BMW used to be known locally as "Be My Wife" in that if you owned a BMW you had made some good money somewhere.

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Sat 1 Oct 2016 10:16
Toughest car ever made - SLO76

The range of Peueot engines you mention also included a 1.9,2.1 and a 2.5 turbo.

Yup the XUD 1.8, 1.9 and 2.1's were great engines.
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Sat 1 Oct 2016 12:42
Toughest car ever made - Wackyracer

Not a diesel but, those old Lexus LS 400's where supposed to run forever if serviced properly.

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Sat 1 Oct 2016 14:08
Toughest car ever made - madf

Very little compare to a Toyota LandCruiser.. used as a firing platform for amchien guns /cannon is the Middle East..

But it is BIG...

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Sat 1 Oct 2016 14:44
Toughest car ever made - Wackyracer

Very little compare to a Toyota LandCruiser.. used as a firing platform for amchien guns /cannon is the Middle East..

But it is BIG...

I bet those used as mobile guns don't live that long Madf !

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Sat 1 Oct 2016 14:48
Toughest car ever made - Bianconeri

The range of Peueot engines you mention also included a 1.9,2.1 and a 2.5 turbo.

Yup the XUD 1.8, 1.9 and 2.1's were great engines.

Vast majority of 404s and 504s were petrol, and virtually undestructible. A good couple of decades before the XUDs rattled onto the scene.
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Sat 1 Oct 2016 17:09
Toughest car ever made - SLO76

The range of Peueot engines you mention also included a 1.9,2.1 and a 2.5 turbo.

Yup the XUD 1.8, 1.9 and 2.1's were great engines.

Vast majority of 404s and 504s were petrol, and virtually undestructible. A good couple of decades before the XUDs rattled onto the scene.

Bulk of the were petrol but the 2.1 diesel appeared in 1970 and did sterling service in the 504 and Mk II Granada. Pug petrol engines have always been pretty hardy but the old diesels are legendary.
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Sat 1 Oct 2016 14:17
Toughest car ever made - Metropolis.

Ford Crown Victoria with the venerable v8 or London taxi cabs with the Nissan diesel engine. Both body on frame and capable of mega mileage even in awful stop-start conditions. Also of note is the Toyota Vios, small, simple and ultra reliable with its old 1.5 petrol engine and 4 speed auto.

Edited by PCharlton on 01/10/2016 at 14:26

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Sat 1 Oct 2016 17:12
Toughest car ever made - SLO76

Ford Crown Victoria with the venerable v8 or London taxi cabs with the Nissan diesel engine. Both body on frame and capable of mega mileage even in awful stop-start conditions. Also of note is the Toyota Vios, small, simple and ultra reliable with its old 1.5 petrol engine and 4 speed auto.

The LTI FX4 Fairway with the 2.7 Nissan diesel could rattle its way well past a million miles. Shame later models were saddled with the far less durable Ford Transit 2.4 turbo diesel.
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Sat 1 Oct 2016 17:24
Toughest car ever made - SLO76
Bring back the simple large family car. I realise a non-turbocharged diesel would be a challenge if not impossible to get through emissions regulations but there is a market for a simple highly durable large family saloon/hatch or estate with no dual mass flywheel or turbo to go wrong.

In the 80's and 90's Ford used to do a taxi special option in the Orion, Sierra and Granada. Basic as basic gets with little to go wrong. I'm sure it would sell today. A Skoda Superb without the massive list of expensive gadgets that'll eventually go wrong.

As a salesman in the 90's I tried to talk the UK sales manager for Proton into creating one out of the non-turbo Persona diesel but it fell on deaf ears. Would Proton have sailed the same line as Skoda if they'd courted this market? He suggested they didn't want to devalue the brand by doing it but as I said at the time people trust cars that are popular with the taxi trade.
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Sat 1 Oct 2016 17:36
Toughest car ever made - daveyjp
Any Mercedes up to the early 1990s is legendary. I've been in W123/4 taxis in Europe with over 500,000 km on the clock.

Over the summer I followed a German registered W110 200d from the late 60s. It took the Scottish hills very well and didn't smoke too badly for its age. I suspect it had covered hundreds of thousands of miles.
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Sat 1 Oct 2016 22:01
Toughest car ever made - Steveieb
No one has mentioned the PD 1.9 Tdi as fitted to the VW Passat and Mk 4 Golf. And a range of Audi models in the period 2001-2004.

Chosen by the nations mini cab drivers until they were replaced by Prius s.

The early engines had Bosch electromagnetic injectors and even a belt tensioner from Canada, widely acclaimed to be the best.

With fuel consumption in the 50 s but the Jewel in the crown is the tremendous pull when the turbo kicks in. Almost impossible to stall, unlike modern diesels, and most important no DPF.

Truly an engineers car , and chosen by trade people in the know looking for a minimalistic vehicle sub £3000
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Sat 1 Oct 2016 22:26
Toughest car ever made - SLO76
Good choice. The 1900 VAG unit is well able to pass 500k in any form if looked after. There are loads of old Passats and Octavia taxis with mega miles still running to back this up.
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Sun 2 Oct 2016 12:25
Toughest car ever made - iFocus

The 1.9PD engine does suffer from early demise in the older generations, I think the notorious engine code is BWD onwards.

The ones that last forever are the AWX variant if I remember rightly.

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Sun 2 Oct 2016 20:55
Toughest car ever made - skidpan

Mk 2 Golf.

Had 2 8 valve GTi's and both gave faultless service. Bought the second one in 1989 and did 113,000 miles in just over 7 years with the only replacement parts needed being tyres, battery, rear part of exhaust, rear brake caliper and diff bearings. That car is still on the road, still looks OK (for a 27 year old Golf). It had covered just over 200,000 miles (which means its only done 87,000 in the last 20 years) and is still on the original engine which has needed no work.

I had a couple of minor accidents in it and it got stolen once, tough as old boots that one.

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Sun 2 Oct 2016 22:48
Toughest car ever made - SLO76

Mk 2 Golf.

Had 2 8 valve GTi's and both gave faultless service. Bought the second one in 1989 and did 113,000 miles in just over 7 years with the only replacement parts needed being tyres, battery, rear part of exhaust, rear brake caliper and diff bearings. That car is still on the road, still looks OK (for a 27 year old Golf). It had covered just over 200,000 miles (which means its only done 87,000 in the last 20 years) and is still on the original engine which has needed no work.

I had a couple of minor accidents in it and it got stolen once, tough as old boots that one.

Sold many used Mk II's in the 90's and not one ever returned with problems. They were basic well made cars with understressed low output engines in most cases. The 1.3 was putting out 55bhp when you could buy a Rover 214Si with 94 for not much more cash. But they would run and run then sell easily afterwards. I ran a late 1.6 Ryder for a while and loved it. Kept it hidden off the forecourt and manky so no one would buy it... still sold.
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Mon 3 Oct 2016 12:24
Toughest car ever made - Steveieb
A friend has just traded in her 03 Tdi golf against a new Golf 1.4 Tdi and is regretting it big time.
She was given £800 against the new Golf and is missing the drivability of that amazing PD engine.

The question to be answered is whether the new car is worth 17 times more than the old Golf.

With only 70k on the old car it has lots of life left in it!
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Mon 3 Oct 2016 14:44
Toughest car ever made - SLO76
Mk IV Golf was a very well made car, far better built than the model that replaced it which is notorious for rust.
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Mon 3 Oct 2016 15:35
Toughest car ever made - Steveieb
Does anyone know when and what cars the 1.9 PD Tdi with the engine code BWD was fitted, as mentioned above as I would like to avoid if they are troublesome.
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Mon 3 Oct 2016 19:44
Toughest car ever made - SLO76
Does anyone know when and what cars the 1.9 PD Tdi with the engine code BWD was fitted, as mentioned above as I would like to avoid if they are troublesome.

No idea, I've never heard of it but I'd like to know if there are any inherent problems to watch for on any variants. All I've ever encountered is DPF's blocking and snapped timing belts caused by neglectful owners not changing them along with the water pump every 4years possibly 5 on a low mileage car but too many simply ignore it.
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Mon 3 Oct 2016 19:50
Toughest car ever made - Avant

Stevieb, I thought it was the 2.0 PD which was trublesome (and that had a code beginning with B), but I could be wrong.

Your friend ought to have got the 1.4 TSI petrol Golf: a lovely engine and probably little less economical than the 1.4 diesel which is well known as a slug and therefore needs a heavy right foot to make progress.

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Mon 3 Oct 2016 21:13
Toughest car ever made - SLO76

Stevieb, I thought it was the 2.0 PD which was trublesome (and that had a code beginning with B), but I could be wrong.

Your friend ought to have got the 1.4 TSI petrol Golf: a lovely engine and probably little less economical than the 1.4 diesel which is well known as a slug and therefore needs a heavy right foot to make progress.

The 1.4 diesel isn't available in the Golf, certainly not in the U.K. anyway, might be elsewhere. The 1.6 is the smallest diesel option. New 1.0 petrol turbo is supposed to be a nice thing but I've yet to try one.

Edited by SLO76 on 03/10/2016 at 21:15

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Mon 3 Oct 2016 21:23
Toughest car ever made - Steveieb
Sorry my friend has bought a 1.4 Tsi and is missing the low end torque of the PD engine.

Another friend who was a Dealer in London selling all sorts of prestige cars now uses a mk4 golf Tdi for his daily transport and says it makes the best economic and performance solution he has come across in 50 years in the business.
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Mon 3 Oct 2016 21:37
Toughest car ever made - SLO76
Sorry my friend has bought a 1.4 Tsi and is missing the low end torque of the PD engine. Another friend who was a Dealer in London selling all sorts of prestige cars now uses a mk4 golf Tdi for his daily transport and says it makes the best economic and performance solution he has come across in 50 years in the business.

He's right. The Mk IV 1.9 TDI, particularly the 130bhp model was a brilliant all rounder. Fast, frugal, comfy, well made and long lasting. Sadly though the addition of a DPF means low mileage users can no longer enjoy the lazy torque of a turbo Diesel engine.
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Mon 3 Oct 2016 22:07
Toughest car ever made - skidpan

Sorry my friend has bought a 1.4 Tsi and is missing the low end torque of the PD engine

After 20 odd years with turbo diesels (including a Golf TDi) I now have a 1.4 TSi Leon. Its the 140 PS models which has 184 torques and I don't miss the diesels at all, in fact the 1.4 TSi is better than any of them. It pulls strongly from 1500 rpm with no turbo lag and keeps going to 6000 rpm if you must.

Brilliant engine.

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Mon 3 Oct 2016 22:36
Toughest car ever made - Cluedo
I'm surprised Subaru have not been mentioned with their smooth running non-turbo petrol engines ( non-turbo mentioned for toughness and reduced possibility of parts going wrong). Many of these boxer engines are seeing 400k to 500k miles and I understand that 98% of Subaru made in the last155 years are still on the road.
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Mon 3 Oct 2016 23:39
Toughest car ever made - Sofa Spud
I'm surprised Subaru have not been mentioned with their smooth running non-turbo petrol engines ( non-turbo mentioned for toughness and reduced possibility of parts going wrong). Many of these boxer engines are seeing 400k to 500k miles and I understand that 98% of Subaru made in the last155 years are still on the road.

The first Subarus I remember in this country, in the 1970's, were 4x4 pick-ups. They were quite common but now you never see any! That blows the 98% statistic out of the water for a start! And as for the boxer engines, they don't exactly sound smooth!

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Tue 4 Oct 2016 08:04
Toughest car ever made - Cluedo
Oops - I got a bit trigger happy with my years - should read 15 not 155 - doh!
I would not worry too much about how they sound - the petrol boxers are very smooth.
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Mon 3 Oct 2016 23:41
Toughest car ever made - Metropolis.

Agree on Subaru, but the figure you mention is for those made in the last 10 years not 55. Land Rover have long claimed >70% of Land Rovers ever made are still on the road, all the way back to 1948!

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Mon 3 Oct 2016 23:58
Toughest car ever made - SLO76
Love the flat 4 Subaru engines. Yes they're pretty robust, though I've seen a few head gaskets pop on 2.5 Legacy/Forester and some parts are cripplingly expensive. Volumes aren't high enough for there to be much in the way of aftermarket options compared to mainstream motors like the Golf. Loved the early Impreza 2.0 Sport which wasn't fast but brilliantly balanced, nimble and fun without being too wild.
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Tue 4 Oct 2016 15:00
Toughest car ever made - John F

Model T Ford?

www.shutterstock.com/video/clip-3986074-stock-foot...l

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If you cover no more than 100 miles per day and have easy access to a charging point at home or work, then an EV is ideal for you.

Is an electric car right for me?