any - which are the best petrol engines on the market | Motoring discussion | Back Room Forum

Wed 21 Sep 2016 21:05

any - which are the best petrol engines on the market - guygamps

Looking for 130 - 170 bhp with smooth quiet delivery, good torque at lower speeds, something that doesn't need revving its heart out to get a good performance from. Something that is available in a golf/focus/astra sized vehicle and can deliver real world 50mpg driven gently on dual carriageways.

Currently driving and loving a Alfa Romeo Giulietta 2.0 Jtdm2 with TCT, I think it is 170bhp. I don't need anymore power but when I change the Alfa I don't want another deisel, Fiat/Alfa not coming out smelling of roses when it comes to emmissions. Happy to consider another Giulietta, but I want pointers as to the best petrol engines on the market.

www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/sep/19/many-ca...s

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Wed 21 Sep 2016 21:06

any - which are the best petrol engines on the market - daveyK_UK

1.8 honda civic

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Wed 21 Sep 2016 21:50

any - which are the best petrol engines on the market - guygamps

have they sorted the ride quality, I test drove a Civic about 5 years ago, it was so jiggly and uncomfortable on the move, I knew before I had it out the dealers car park I could never own one. I do about 20k miles per year

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Wed 21 Sep 2016 22:28

any - which are the best petrol engines on the market - SLO76

Later face lifted cars are better and the 1800 petrol will run forever but I have to say I'm surprised you thought the ride worse than the Alfa. I agree that the Civic wasn't as soft as a Golf or an Astra (depending on spec) but the Alfa is very firm and so is the Fiat Bravo it's based on. The Civic is a vastly better built and longer lasting car but the Alfa certainly has spirit and style.

No idea of your budget but doing 20k per year and assuming you'll not be keeping the car into its old age, I'd stick with diesel. You'll not find anything with a petrol engine that'll give you 50mpg plus day to day and 150bhp upwards. Friend of mine has a Mk VI Golf GTi and a Focus ST 2.0 and while both are very strong (in very different ways) the Golf will do 35mpg tops and the Focus never breaks 30.

Golf GTD, Octavia VRS TDI will but again they're firm riding. I'd go for a more mundane mid range 1.6 diesel or wait till the new Civic is available.

Edited by SLO76 on 21/09/2016 at 22:31

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Thu 22 Sep 2016 00:05

any - which are the best petrol engines on the market - Avant

I think your answer is the VW Group 1.4 or 2.0 TSI petrol engine. It has all the torque you're looking for and the economy is not that far away from a diesel.

I had an Octavia vRS estate (2.0 TSI) which would do over 40 mpg on a long run - mid-30s on short journeys. It's a lovely engine and people with 1.4 TSIs are equally enthusiastic.

If you do go for a VW Group car, avoid one with DSG unless you're buying new and intend to change after three years.

Edited by Avant on 22/09/2016 at 00:05

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Wed 28 Sep 2016 17:40

any - which are the best petrol engines on the market - nick62

............................. avoid one with DSG unless you're buying new and intend to change after three years.

Are they REALLY that unreliable, (even if the oil is changed at 40,000 miles)???

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Thu 22 Sep 2016 00:30

any - which are the best petrol engines on the market - Big John

I have a 2014 Skoda Superb facelift II 1.4tsi 125 ps (yes with the cam chain!) but love the way the car drives. Even though it's only a 1.4 it still does 0-60 in 10.5 secs and 127 mph - not bad for a big barge! It pulls strongly between 1500-6000rpm - It's also VERY quiet especially in traffic (where my previous diesel wasn't) . It's long term average mpg (tank to tank) over the last year is currently 45.7 (50mpg possible on a run)

Fast forward to newer cars with the later VAG EA211 1.4 tsi ACT with 150ps then performance increases and economy should be even better. I've been a new model Audi A4 with this engine and it was pretty impressive

Edited by Big John on 22/09/2016 at 00:33

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Thu 22 Sep 2016 01:16

any - which are the best petrol engines on the market - Metropolis.

My pick would be the Mazda 3, 2.0 skyactive engine and 6 speed auto. Well equipped, almost 50mpg and not exactly sluggish either with 155bhp. Reliability of Mazda (diesels excluded) is an added bonus!

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Thu 22 Sep 2016 09:52

any - which are the best petrol engines on the market - catsdad

I would second the Civic. On paper it doesn't meet some of the OP criteria. Torque is well short of a diesel but I have had mine after three diesels (including the well regarded Accord and Mondeo) and in day to day driving the Civic is fine torque-wise. For example on one of my regular journeys the Honda takes a sharp climbing bend in 3rd that each of my diesels needed 2nd to tackle.

Also it will pootle along in traffic but when you need it to shift it will do so. I rather like the way it revs as a Vtec but not all will agree. But no turbo to worry about. You won't get 50 mpg except on the motorway at a restrained 70 but you ought to get mid 40s easily.

Suspension on mine (2012) is fine but it was improved again after 2013 I think. Tyres are sensible on standard 16" wheels.

A proper test drive will sort out whether it's characteristics suit.

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Thu 22 Sep 2016 10:34

any - which are the best petrol engines on the market - scot22

Very interested in ecommendations for TSI engines. I was warned off them by a mechanic I respect - said smaller engines were being overworked. Also am I wimpish in being cautious about turbo. Attracted to a 2011 Polo with turbo ( diesel 50,000 miles ) is there a normal life expectancy for a turbo ? been on forum long enough to know there are variables.

Apologies if drifting off thread but seem to have been so many changes from a 'normal' engine and curious to explore.

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Thu 22 Sep 2016 10:40

any - which are the best petrol engines on the market - Avant

Scot - not wimpish at all, and I'd be cautious about used diesels as well as turbos.

P. Charlton's suggestion of a petrol Mazda is a good one: I would tend to advise most people looking for a used car to go Japanese (or Korean) and petrol-powered.

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Thu 22 Sep 2016 11:31

any - which are the best petrol engines on the market - SLO76

Fears regarding the TSI engines are largely based on the early 1.4 turbo and supercharged unit in the Mk V Golf which suffered a number of issues but later turbo only cars seem fine.

As with any turbocharged car though they need proper regular maintenance and it's imperative the correct oil is used. Do so and the turbo should last the lifetime of the car with ease. I know of plenty of taxi drivers with turbo diesel motors running well in excess of 250k on the original turbo.

Avoid anything that hasn't got a full and comprehensive service history with annual oil changes not biannual and they should be fine. Excluding of course anything with the troublesome PSA 1600 HDI unit.

The best route to reliability though is simplicity. The non turbo Civic and Mazda 3/6 are largely bombproof and reasonably economical.

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Thu 22 Sep 2016 12:22

any - which are the best petrol engines on the market - scot22

Thanks for these two posts. In light of previous advice I had decided against diesel - and really know I should stick to that. The problem has been that keeping to petrol limits number of cars available. However, I need to be consistent.

SL, as a general rule of thumb, when do you think turbos became ready to last the lifetime of the car ? Loved your cmment about simplicity - keep it simple is one of my life's guiding principles.

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Thu 22 Sep 2016 14:23

any - which are the best petrol engines on the market - SLO76

Turbos have been reliable since the 80's if correctly maintained. I know plenty of taxi owners who've covered massive mileages without replacing one including one who ran a Peugeot E7 2.0 HDI 8v turbo diesel to over 800,000 miles without replacing the turbo.

It's EU environmental legislation and the drive to cut emissions and improve fuel efficiency along with cost cutting that can lead to issues on later cars, largely on diesels. Peugeots 1.6 HDI is a fine example and has ruined Peugeot/Citroens previously good name for Diesel engines. It really is that bad.

Particulate filters, variable geometry turbochargers, dual mass flywheels all add complexity and hurt longterm reliability. You're right to for petrol and avoid turbo/supercharging for maximum dependability, though many modern petrol engines do have a DMF they're not as hard on it with less low speed torque than turbo diesels . Certainly what I advise to anyone hunting for a car on a budget.

However this does limit your scope. If you have a healthy budget and are buying a young or new car and plan on looking after it and let it idle after a run (something I always do on a turbo vehicle) to let the turbo cool, then there's no reason why a turbocharged car can't be reliable, depending on what you pick. The issues come when people try to run them on a budget, diesels suffer more than petrol again because they're bought for economy and many scrimp on or miss services.

I've ran plenty of turbocharged cars over the years without having issue (though I maintain dealer or genuine specialist history) and currently have a Honda CRV 1.6 diesel and a VW Polo 1.2 TDi on the drive (neither have had any issues with turbos) next to a near spotless V6 Ford Cougar that cost me £300 and has never been a problem and a Mazda 3 I got for nowt which runs fine and has 11mths of mot to run. Running a car cheaply can be done if you don't care about it being unfashionable.

Edited by SLO76 on 22/09/2016 at 14:33

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Thu 22 Sep 2016 16:53

any - which are the best petrol engines on the market - scot22

Your post SLO76 is an example of what makes a forum worthwhile. The advice is invaluable for someone like me ( though I know more now than when I started using the forum ! )

Very much appreciated.

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Thu 22 Sep 2016 18:31

any - which are the best petrol engines on the market - skidpan

which are the best petrol engines on the market

Simple answer, the VAG 1.4 TSi. Available in 3 power ratings, we have the 140 PS and its simply brilliant. More than enough power and its spread from 1500 rpm to 6000 rpm with no turbo lag. It averages 45 mpg in daily use but on a long trip at legal speeds (73 mph indicated) it easilly averages 50mpg plus.

I have tried a couple of the current non-turbo engines available and even though they have their fans after the TSi they are poor. The Mazda 2.0 120 PS in the 3 was a slug as was the 1.8 Honda in the Civic. OK, thrash them and they go OK but after years of diesels I prefer the lazy nature of a turbo. Shortly to try the 2.0 Mazda in 165 PS spec in the CX5 but I am not expecting it to match the TSi.

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Thu 22 Sep 2016 19:54

any - which are the best petrol engines on the market - John F

which are the best petrol engines on the market

Apart from F1 engines, which aren't really 'on the market', in cars you can use for shopping...Bugatti W16, Bentley W12, Ford ecoboost 1.0 . Horses for courses.

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Wed 28 Sep 2016 19:38

any - which are the best petrol engines on the market - Engineer Andy

OP: Normally (as a Mazda3 owner and a fan of their cars more generally) I recommend the Mazda 2ltr 165hp unit, but HJ gave it less than a stellar review when compared to the 120hp unit (same engine, just not derated), so its got the same amount of torque, but 45hp more power, which essentially means you have to revs the nuts off it to get the best out of it.

The 120hp version is probably fine at cruising, though probably not as good as the small petrol-turbo engines at rapid overtaking and similar manouvres. The 2ltr auto (old-style torque converter) is about as quick as my normally-aspirated (11yo) 1.6 petrol version, but a bit better on the economy side, which is good.

The belt-driven (not twin-charged) VAG 1.4 TSI seems to fit the bill, and probably in the higher output 150hp (ACT or current quivalent, as they seem to have dropped the term) rather than the 122hp version engine, and can be found in the Golf, A3, Octavia and Leon amongst others.

As others have said, I would still be very wary of getting a VAG automatic, especially a second-hand car, as only the very latest (new) ones have the (apparently) more reliable latest-generation wet type DSG clutch.

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Thu 22 Sep 2016 20:30

any - which are the best petrol engines on the market - SLO76

Much appreciated, happy to help.

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Thu 6 Oct 2016 23:35

any - which are the best petrol engines on the market - Big John

Overworked?

1.4tsi 6 speed 60mph = 2000rpm

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Thu 22 Sep 2016 21:09

any - which are the best petrol engines on the market - Cyd

I would suggest a turbocharged petrol would suit. My 2.0T Saab Aero drives much in the manner you describe with 300Nm available from just 1800rpm and 280Nm from 2400.

I would therefore suspect that an Astra Turbo might be just up your street. It's a similar design in 1.8l form.

www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=114789

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Wed 28 Sep 2016 17:33

any - which are the best petrol engines on the market - Bianconeri

PSA's 1.2 3-cylinder Puretech 130, with 230Nm torque and the 6-speed manual or EAT6 auto transmission. Pulls brilliantly and is genuinely economical: 49mpg in a 308 or a 2008. A bit less in a C4 Picasso 1.2 Puretech EAT6 in which it does a remarkable job.

THP 1.6 from PSA (and in some MINIs) is excellent too, smooth, very powerful and very economical.

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Wed 28 Sep 2016 20:18

any - which are the best petrol engines on the market - SLO76

One unforeseen side effect of all this environmental mentalism has been the development of some brilliant wee characterful buzzy two and three cylinder engines.

Ford's 3cyl 1.0 ecoboost, Fiat's twin air, PSA's 3cyl 1.2, Renault's 0.9 Tce and GM's 1.0 turbo are all great fun. The Fiesta 1.0 Titanium 125 I drove recently sounded like a baby 911 when revved hard. A lovely wee thing in every way though not quite as gutsy as I expected, it did handle beautifully. How well this engine copes in a Mondeo I'd like to see.

Even the 3cyl diesel in our Polo has an unusual thrum to it which sounds far nicer than your average four cylinder diesel.

Edited by SLO76 on 28/09/2016 at 20:19

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Wed 28 Sep 2016 21:09

any - which are the best petrol engines on the market - skidpan

One unforeseen side effect of all this environmental mentalism has been the development of some brilliant wee characterful buzzy two and three cylinder engines.

Wifes Nissan Note with its supercharged 1.2 3 cylinder petrol has real character. Compared to the 1.4 TSi 140PS in my Leon it may be slow but the sound track is almost addictive. Its also pretty economical.

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Thu 6 Oct 2016 23:10

any - which are the best petrol engines on the market - guygamps

I had one of those in a pungent 3008, it broke down 4 times in 3 months with less than 20k miles on it...

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Fri 7 Oct 2016 06:29

any - which are the best petrol engines on the market - skidpan

Wifes Nissan Note with its supercharged 1.2 3 cylinder petrol has real character. Compared to the 1.4 TSi 140PS in my Leon it may be slow but the sound track is almost addictive. Its also pretty economical.

I had one of those in a pungent 3008, it broke down 4 times in 3 months with less than 20k miles on it...

If you are suggesting that the Nissan and Peugeot 1.2 3 cylinder engines are the same you are completely wrong. Totally different engines made by different manufacturers in different countries.

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Tue 11 Oct 2016 11:32

any - which are the best petrol engines on the market - daveyK_UK

Correct

It's also worth pointing out the non turbo 1.2 3 cylinder found in the majority of current shape (63 plate onwards) Nissan Notes is absolutely dreadful. Yes it's economical, but completely gutless. The Turbo 1.2 3 cylinder is brilliant and just as economical and well worth the extra outlay if you want a Nissan Note.

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Tue 11 Oct 2016 21:05

any - which are the best petrol engines on the market - skidpan

Correct It's also worth pointing out the non turbo 1.2 3 cylinder found in the majority of current shape (63 plate onwards) Nissan Notes is absolutely dreadful. Yes it's economical, but completely gutless. The Turbo 1.2 3 cylinder is brilliant and just as economical and well worth the extra outlay if you want a Nissan Note.

Never driven the normally aspirated 1.2 3 cylinder but in a car the size of the Note its going to be slowwwwww.

But the "turbo" 1.2 3 cylinder used in the Note is actually supercharged.

The Nissan 1.2 turbo engine is a 4 cylinder engine and is used in the Joke, Pulsar and Qashqai. Its also used in the Renault Kadjar but in that car its 130 PS and not 115 PS and used in the Nissans. I think Dacia are starting to use the engine now.

Tried the Qashqai but 115 PS and about 140 lbs of torque is just too little for a car that size. The Renault might be better but its not got much more torque, would need a drive to comment.

In the smaller Joke and Pulsar the 115 PS engine is probably OK but again not driven either.

If they fitted that engine in the Note I would be off to buy one but its not going to happen since the Note is being discontinued next year.

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Tue 11 Oct 2016 21:21

any - which are the best petrol engines on the market - Avant

".... the Note is being discontinued next year."

I can't say I'm surprised; the current Note is less 'upright' than the previous model and is rather too close in overall size to the Pulsar.

I'm not sure why Nissan introduced the Pulsar in the first place, but one of them had to give. Nissan's recent success has been due to their offering something different to fill gaps in the market. No doubt the Pulsar is the result of the usual 'market research' which never actually asks real people their opinions.

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