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Poor bloke, it's probably been crapping all over his garden for years and he's seen an opportunity! Funny how these much loved animals are allowed to just roam wherever they like without the owners having any idea what they're up to. Please don't draw any analogies with children, that would be really sad!
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"Funny how these much loved animals are allowed to just roam wherever they like without the owners having any idea what they're up to."
Don't understand your point here. Deer, badgers, squirrals, foxes all roam, probably crap on peoples land and all end up being hit by cars.
On many occasions, as someone who lives on such a B road, the vehicle is driven too quickly or by someone (as appears to be the case here) who doesn't give a toss.
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If the driver had swerved to avoid the cat and ended up running someone over, hitting another vehicle, etc, etc, would the cat owner be willing to take responsibility for the damage ??? Cats are pest on and off the road.
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You are not supposed to swerve to avoid *any* animal on the road, including dogs. The fact that it was unsafe to do so is a defense for any incident, including those involving deer or swans.
However, why anyone would think it a good thing to do, whether the animal is a pest or not, is beyond me.
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Where does it say "You are not supposed to swerve to avoid *any* animal on the road, including dogs." Mark?
I should have thought you were duty bound to do all you can to avoid any collision with anything.
Largely a case of shock taking over when it happens anyway though I guess.
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I missed a bit about where it is not safe to do so or some-such.
As to where, dunno, my instructor told me some years ago, I assumed it was in the highway code, but what do I know - in the survey I had to confess that other than buying my wife a copy a few months ago I haven't looked at the thin in 25 years.
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You are not supposed to swerve to avoid *any* animal on the road, including dogs. The fact that it was unsafe to do so is a defense for any incident, including those involving deer or swans. However, why anyone would think it a good thing to do, whether the animal is a pest or not, is beyond me.
I was always told that you should try and avoid anything bigger than a dog/sheep as running into a cow/deer can cause too much damage.
Generally i agree that you shouldn't swerve to avoid.
Reminds me once when I was at college when me and a friend hit an owl. We stopped and picked it up as he wanted to get it stuffed but it seemed to regain some life when we were back in the car!
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I was always told that you should try and avoid anything bigger than a dog/sheep as running into a cow/deer can cause too much damage.
Not as much damage as an oncoming Land Rover though. Fatacc on the A428 between Bedford and Northampton last weekend, LR driver believes the oncoming car swerved to avoid a badger before colliding head-on with his vehicle on his side of the road.
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"Cats are pest on and off the road."
No more than some drivers.
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I am sorry to say that, in the eye's of the Law, cats are considered as vermin, and I say that as a cat lover.
They have virtually no legal protection in this country and, sadly, running over a cat is not in any way a prosecutable offence. Running over a dog or a badger, however, is quite a different matter. Both incidents must be reported to the Police, and the badger is also a protected species!
Cats are considered free to roam, and the owner cannot be held responsible for any traspass or damages caused by their pet whilst doing this completely natural act.
Anyone who is unlucky enough to run over a cat should stop where it is safe to do so and offer any possible assistance to the animal, e.g. taking it to a vet or informing the animals owner, even though there is no legal obligation to do so.
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Check your Law. Feral not vermin.
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Sorry Galaxy, I didn't mean that to go (key skills of a muppet I'm afraid).
I meant to add you're spot on with what the driver should have done.
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Don't know about where you live, but up here in the sunny North East there aren't many people who keep deer, badgers, squirrels, foxes etc... as pets, and then let them loose near roads.
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Ha Ha! Let them loose! Very good.
So let's try again shall we? Cats are feral in law - got that?
Means they are free to roam. So it then follows that they have that in common with the other animals mentioned. As such they occasionally stray on to roads - shame on them for not realising that only BMW drivers are allowed on them.
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Where I live there are so many stray ones, it's Standard Operating Procedure to flatten one whenever the opportunity arises.
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Like the rabbits on country lanes over here you mean? Gets a bit bumpy on a warm night...
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Section 170 (8) Road Traffic Act 1988 as amended by Schedule 4, RTA 1991, list the following animals, other than in or on your vehicle, that if you are involved in an accident with then the full stop and report procedure kicks in:
Horse,cattle,ass,mule, sheep, pig, goat or dog.
Deliberately running over Bagpuss could lead to charge of cruelty/cause uncessary suffering under Protection of Animals Act 1911.
......and a nugget, a moggie is a domestic animal and can be classed as property for the purposes of Criminal Damage Act 1971.
And you think Toad had problems?
DVD
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And you think Toad had problems?
Taken from www.thestudentzone.com/articles/weird6.html
Passing cars can make toads crossing roads explode without even touching them.
Maybe that's why he changed his name to Terry Thomas!!
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I seem to remember reading something similar before, DD, but it does sound utterly ludicrous, doesn't it?!
HF
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I seem to remember reading something similar before, DD,
That's cos it was me that posted it before ;o)
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?f=2&t=74...7
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You know DVD someone a few streets away ran over their neighbour's pooch. Totally accidental, dog survived, no vet bills.
Anyway the animosity grew so much they eventually had to sell up and move house!
On the other hand I can think of an staggeringly noisy and belligerent Jack Russell not too many doors away that quite a few have..... errrmmm... "had a go at" - Road Traffic/Protection of Animals Acts notwithstanding. Me? I saw nuffink guv'nor.
[trudges off to shed to fetch pooper scooper for latest deposit on front lawn, grrrrrrr!]
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Like the rabbits on country lanes over here you mean? Gets a bit bumpy on a warm night...
That's the easy solution! Nearly lost control of the old Tipo once - not because I was intentionally swerving to avoid a rabbit, but because my Ex screamed so loudly when she saw it hop out infront of me that I almost ended up through the roof!
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DTD I am appalled - where I live, the sight of a rabbit on a warm evening really is a rare and wonderful sight to behold. But then, I suppose I'm a bit soppy like that ;)
HF
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I don't mean it in a bad way HF, but we get literally hundreds of rabbits out in the lanes on warm evenings! I'm afraid I tend to account for 3 or 4 every weekend... :-(
And about one cat a month, seeing as you were going to ask. :-((
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DTD it wasn't a criticism - but I expect you already know that ;)
Doesn't make me like it any better though :(
HF
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Not sure about 'feral' or what. The basic point is that while many people own cats or dogs, the law considers dogs to be biddable (i.e.trainable) and cats not - anyone who has a cat will understand this. In other words, dog owners are expected to have trained their animal to behave, so are considered responsible for its actions when unattended. Cats - no chance.
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Just try herding the beggars!
:o)
Terry
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That's right Andrew. The "feral" element in law recognises that it is not possible to train or contain cats in the way you can a dog.
Which is why the owner is not deemed responsible for anything a cat does.
In terms of the original post containing the reference to someone hitting a cat and just driving off - well one day they may have kids.
Those kids may then have a cat. My guess is they wouldn't enjoy the upset it causes if they lost theirs the same way.
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Free too roam, free to get knocked over then. And the BMW reference, almost as sad as the kiddie analogy!
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"Free too roam, free to get knocked over then"
The BMW reference gets more accurate with each post.
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You can try sueing the car driver, but he may sue the cat for not looking both ways before crossing the road.
****** Troll alert *******
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I wish the owners of the half a dozen cats that seem to inhabit my garden would come and claim them - I sometimes feel that the birdfood I put out is merely bait for the birds (carlink - Robins etc) so that selfsame cats can ambush them. Then of course those cats crap on my nice new seedbed.
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>>The BMW reference gets more accurate with each post.
I don't think you can say that all people who drive BMWs are idiots. Its probably just coincidence in this case.
Most BMW drivers are normal people.
M.
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>Most BMW drivers are normal people.
QED
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I was surprised at the lightness of the bump on flattening a bunny. Much less vibration than a pheasant. Presumably it could be scooped up for din dins or maybe the impact would spread the gut contents too much. Any one use recent road kills for food?
I once ran over a little birdy. I don't think I touched it, but in the rear view mirror I saw it wobble then fall over. I felt quite sad for quite a while.
A colleageue hit a deer. I would guess it was a Roe or a Sika. Nasty.
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>>Any one use recent road kills for food?
Hopefully not. I was eating my dinner as I read your post, Leif, it's kind of put me off a bit ;)
HF
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HF: Oh dear. Sorry! Mind you certain TV adverts put me off dinner though I tend not to watch TV much these days. Won't go into details for obvious reasons then.
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Thanks Leif, dinner in bin now anyway ;)
No worries. Just think when you run the rabbits over that you might be depriving a child of a very rare chance to see one?
HF
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In the '60s (when I was very young!)we went round to my Uncle Jack's for dinner. He served up some lovely pheasant. Trying to make adult conversation I asked where he had shot it (whose land not where on the body!)and which gun he had used 410, 12 bore etc he said he had run it over - clipped it's head with the bumper he said, no good running it over, too much mess. Do you do this often I asked and his answer lead me to believe that it was a regular occurrence and my dad said he was very good at it and my aunt said it frightened her when he did it. Mind you, I was young and gullible - but there wasn't much traffic on the rural roads of N. Yorks then and a lot of daft pheasants........
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In reply to PhilW's post - this is slightly off topic, (please shoot me, anyone) but I remember being taken to a farm, which belonged to the family of an ex-boyfriend of mine. Was given the full tour of the farm, in a very exciting tractor (motoring), to see the fields, the animals etc.
Later that night, we had a barbecue. And I was informed that one of the lambs I had admired prancing around the field earlier was, in fact, now my burger.
That was one of the major factors that put me on the course towards being vegetarian.
HF
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Actually, part of the reason why it took me two years to teach SWMBO to drive was the episode about 6 weeks in where she nearly killed the pair of us avoiding a rabbit. My reaction was enough to make her refuse to drive any more, point blank, for over a year.
She finally accepted that when it comes down to it, she (and I) are more valuable to our parents, brothers, sisters, kids, etc etc than any animal she may see. Tough decision, but she started driving again. She still hates me when she runs a bunny rabbit over though.
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Nightime competitive section on a rally.
Bunny in middle of stage running away as fast as possible from umpty zillion watts of Hella's finest output.
Bunny runs straight down the middle of the road, arrow straight not a inch to right or left. Driver slows down, follows the rabbit for a bit, tries getting close, tries stopping, rabbit also stops completely transfixed.
Co-driver now impatient says " Oh go on ****[1] it!"
Driver... "mmmmm interesting have we got time!
(engages serious mode)
Apologies to HF and those of a squeamish disposition.
Now you might wonder why. In those days before Kevlar and all the other anti puncture stuff today, fractured rabbit bones could give you a puncture. Yes yeeuuch I know but unfortunately true.
[1] deleted expletive beginning with letter F.
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FiF thank you for your apologies ;) I am obviously in the minority here (hmm never been there before ;) but 'yeeuuch' I would certainly agree with!
So you mean that without all this newfangled anti-puncture stuff, people would actually have to try to avoid the rabbits for fear of a puncture?
HF
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So you mean that without all this newfangled anti-puncture stuff, people would actually have to try to avoid the rabbits for fear of a puncture?
Correct. But even tyres for cooking motors are much more puncture resistant than in days not all that long ago.
Psssssss!....Did I hear that from the driveway? I have a horrible feeling those might be famous last words there.
Now to me its just instinctive to try and avoid hurting whatever. Afraid I'm not clever enough nor have sufficiently quick reactions to think "oh its just a xxxx, keep going."
One day the XXXX might be your kid, pet and having experienced the trauma of seeing a pet in the last stages wouldn't wish it on anyone.
However having said that the way some animals dash out we would all have to drive round at <10mph, which puts some of the rantings elsewhere in the thread in context methinks.
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Now to me its just instinctive to try and avoid hurting whatever. Afraid I'm not clever enough nor have sufficiently quick reactions to think "oh its just a xxxx, keep going."
Exactly, it's an instinctive reaction to try and avoid anything that suddenly crosses your path when driving. I've swerved (not dangerously) out of the way of leaves blowing in the wind, old newspapers etc, simply because the instinct is to swerve before you even fully realise what you're swerving away from.
One day the XXXX might be your kid, pet and having experienced the trauma of seeing a pet in the last stages wouldn't wish it on anyone.
Yes, both my cats ended that way, and not a day goes by without me worrying about my kids on the road.
However having said that the way some animals dash out we would all have to drive round at > of the rantings elsewhere in the thread in context methinks.
Yeah, agreed again - although maybe those old tyres weren't such a bad idea after all ;)
HF
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Later that night, we had a barbecue. And I was informed that one of the lambs I had admired prancing around the field earlier was, in fact, now my burger.
That was one of the major factors that put me on the course towards being vegetarian
I am always amazed at the number of people who will eat meat but who won't kill the animal themself or who don't connect cute animal in field with content of dinner plate. That's the main reason I don't eat meat, fish excepted. Sadly you don't get many fish roadkills. At least not in Berks. Mind you, a Tuna on the road would make a mess of most cars.
When I lived in Leicestershire it was fairly common for my father to run over a Pheasant. It did make quite a bump too.
HF: PS. Just my luck you will be eating your nut cutlet Sunday lunch while reading this and will be put off your food. I guess I'll just saunter off in shame ...
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Do you know how it feels to have to pick up a much-loved pet from the side of the road because some moron thinks 30mph is too slow on a country lane? Well I do.
Have you ever seen an idiot kill a badger with his 4x4 when it was easier to slow down but he was too busy on his mobile phone to notice? Well I have.
I see lots here about rights and damn all about responsibilities. Who cares if I can sue a dog's owner if I happen to damage my car if I should run the poor creature over?
Drive sanely and there will be less roadkill. Driving is a privilege not a right. As you hurtle through my village at 50mph because hurtling down country lanes is "fun" rememer that the next animal you hit may be a child.
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Fergus, It was always going to be the case on this thread that there would be notes from those who, either genuinely, or just for sake of sounding a bit clever, would display their dislike of cats or any other number of creatures, for any number of reasons. I personally find it unpleasant to hear these views and support your view very much. I have similar experiences to yours going back 35 years and will never ignore an injured animal of any shape or size at the roadside and am very aware of the dangers to both animal and human life on the road. It disturbs me a lot, however as a car driver as well as pedestrian and occasional cyclist, I must bear a fair share of responsibility and can only do my personal best to reduce the liklihood of accidents to both animals and humans. When the topic of speed arises it often occurs to me that when drivers speak of open roads/motorways being suitable for high speeds well in excess of the speed limits, it is often forgotten that an animal can spring from almost nowhere and at 90mph or higher the ability to avoid a collision safely is much dimished.
I live in an area well populated by deer and there is a 60mph single carriageway road running right through the middle of the forest and, over the years, has been the scene of hundreds of fatal accidents, fatal not only to people, but to dozens of deer each year. The most recent to my knowledge killed both deer and motorcyclst.
So on this topic Fergus, my vote is with you.
KB.
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Agree totally, FTD. Lost 2 cats over recent years due to louts using roads (30 limit nominally - up to 70+ in reality as there is no enforcement) as high speed playground.
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HF: PS. Just my luck you will be eating your nut cutlet Sunday lunch while reading this and will be put off your food. I guess I'll just saunter off in shame ...
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LOL Leif, my 'sunday nut cutlet lunch'!!! Tis ok, I read the post long before I even thought about eating anything, and to preserve my dignity I would like to mention that I have only ever once (I think) in my life had a nut cutlet!
Hmm, people force me to go off-topic, don't they?! So I will end with the cat that I had to brake a little to avoid the other day, and then almost drove off the road because I saw that it had a mouse hanging out of its mouth. Even from inside a car mice make me want to jump on top of the highest possible thing and just scream for help.
HF
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My freezer is currently home to nice spot of roadkill venison! Oh, apart from one haunch which has already been eaten! This muntjac was lying by the side of the road, freshly dead and still warm, and still 3D too, so it seemed like a waste not to!
Funnily enough, although the council waste site has facilities for the collection of waste oil and dud batteries, they don't have a skip marked 'hooves, horns, hide and waste guts'
I reckon I have just been toughened up over the years dealing with all dead things my cat has left around the house, including about 6 rats at various times!
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Hooves: Ideal as ornamental finish to a walking-stick (just go to any country fair)
Horns: Lovely handle for a small knife (for whittlin' your walking stick, of course)
Hide: Lovely pair of boots. Have you never seen Ray Mears?
Guts: You have a cat and cats love offal. End of problem.
All ecologically sound, if a bit squishy in places.
As an aside, is there any truth in the rumour that if you run over a deer you are not allowed to take the corpse but that any subsequent driver happening on to the scene can? Some kind of anti-poaching law I guess.
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I ran over a mink the other day (on the M11 north of Stansted). If the road had been quieter, I would have stopped and picked it up. I could have made a lovely steering wheel glove with it.
I also hit a deer on the A11 through Thetford forest about 5 years ago. It didn't half make me jump. A bloke in a Landrover had a deer jump out in front of him at around the same time. He swerved to avoid it, left the road and ran into a tree. I think he was killed in the accident. Perhaps that explains why we are not supposed to swerve to avoid animals on the road?
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Apparently that's true.
Cat is no more. Population of the great outdoors is starting to recover.
Next time I have road kill, I will send over all the useable parts to yours then shall I, No Dosh? Actually, having done it, and can now satisfy any passing vegetarians I may have an argument with, I think I probably would not bother with roadkill in future (unless pennyless and starving). Lets just say that rummaging up to ones elbow inside a deer is... *interesting*.
I killed my first ever cute fluffy animal in 10 years of driving last week. Actually 'feathery' as it was a wee bird which flew from a hedge splat into the side of my car. It was quite sad as I have not knowlingly run anything down and killed it before.
There was that ****ed dog which ran in front of my car that one time. Bounced off and ran off yelping, so I can assume that it was mostly okay. Apart from lots of hair in the front of my car, my car was too. Anyhow, that was not killed so it doesn't count. At the time, I was SO full of adrenaline, it is just as well that the recalcitrant owner did not appear on the scene shortly afterwards! Not the poor dog's fault.
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Send the deer tripe my way. I have a Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall book in the kitchen so there's not much of a deer I can't cook. Now eating it, that's a different matter.
All this talk of roadkill reminds me of an amusing story of my dad's car, my brother's race bike and spare wheels on the roof, a stretch of the M3 and Crow not looking where it was going.
Needless to say there was one heck of a bang and one of the spare wheels got dislodged from the roof rack, only to bounce down the bonnet and race up the hard shoulder of the M3, my dad and my brother in hot pursuit.
Wheel was recovered intact and bike hosed down in time for my brother to come third in his heat at Crystal Palace. He still maintains he would have won if it weren't for the smell of crowguts on his handlebars.
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Mention of Crystal Palace reminds me of the story an ex workmate told of the endurance races there where they had a portapotty in a tent at the side of the track for competitors feeling the call of nature.
Along comes a gust of wind, away goes the tent and there's a guy sitting on the throne with his shorts round his ankles in full view of 20,000 or so spectators.
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As an aside, is there any truth in the rumour that if you run over a deer you are not allowed to take the corpse but that any subsequent driver happening on to the scene can?
Used to be; but the law has changed now. If you hit it, you can now stop and legally pick it up.
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Fantastic news. Anyone know where I can get bull-bars for an Alfa 156? I know this quiet little road in the New Forest where I can get myself some lunch.....
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I would be very cautious about using roadkill to stock your freezer. I know someone who found a very recently deceased deer at the side of road, which had clearly been the loser against a car. He took it home, butchered it and cooked its yucky bits for his dog. Dog ate yucky bits and then very shortly afterwards, dog died. It turned out that a vet had attended the RTA and destroyed the deer with a lethal injection. The council had been called to collect the body but were beaten to it by my dad's friend.
So unless you kill the roadkill and are happy that there isn't anything in its system that shouldn't be there - leave well alone.
Moyra
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Eeeep!
Perhaps I will leave the shovel at home. No more bunny burgers for me!
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Eek! although in my case, I know that this had not happened in the 10 minutes or so between me driving along clear road and me returning along deer strewn road. I lived to tell the tale, anyhow!
Friend of mine hit and badly injured a deer. He put it out of it's misery himself and thought, ah well, waste not and slung it in the boot. A little bit later he was stopped by the police who had spotted the hooves and horns sticking up. They confiscated his deer on suspicion of poaching, subject to forensics confirming his story. Anyhow, to cut a long story short, the police did confirm his story - ie that the deer would have died from it's nasty injuries anyway and he was justified in humanely killing it. The had propely hung his deer in a chilled meat locker and he was phoned to come and collect it at his convenience. He did a deal with a local butcher, who chopped it all up nicely for him.
Incidentally, in the above tale of doggy woe, what about all the wild creatures that would eat a handy pile of free food at the side of the road, such as crows, foxes, red kites, etc? I would say that the vet was acting negligently leaving it there and the dog owner could sue him. Vets have facilities for dealing with the bodies of quite large pets, so they could have dragged it off to the surgery to await collection.
Still on the vet and deer theme, the car in front of me struck and injured a muntjac a few months back. The car was full of Londoners who literally said 'we are from London, what shall we do?' so I picked up the deer, wrapped it up securely in my handy car blanket (think Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy reference to use of the towel) and drove to the police station, who rang up the vets emergency number, and then drove to the vets. All this with a screaming deer trussed up in the back of my car! Anyhow, the vet examined it, said it was mostly okay, probably just shock, and zapped it full of sedatives and saline. The next day, it had recovered sufficiently to be taken to an animal sanctuary and it was later released. I had deer hair in that car forever more and the blanket is still pretty furry!
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Nobody is going to believe this, but it really did happen. I used to work for Goodyear Tire in W. Australia. One cool winter's night the manager of our Geraldton agency was driving down a country road in his ute (that's pickup truck to you Poms), where as always at night there's the risk of meeting a kangaroo or several. Well, a whole batch of them leapt out of the bush ahead of him. He jammed on the brakes and managed to stop in time, and they all disappeared into the scrub. However he had felt something hit his truck with some force, so stopped and had a look around. In the back sitting on the truck bed was young joey, just about 3 foot tall. Must have got left behind by the bigger fellers and misjudged one of its leaps. It looked very scared and wouldn't budge, so he let down the tailgate, had a smoke, but it wouldn't move. After 10 minutes or so, he gave up waiting, and drove into town with the joey still in the back, parked in front of his regular hotel (Aussie for pub) and brought his mates out for a look.
Kangarro tail soup is an acquired taste. Personally I never acquired it.
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I hit a dog once, dark night, dark road, fast black dog,. I picked up dog, ran owner (old lady) and injured dog to emergency vet (pdsa i seem to remember). Dog was ok, few nasty cuts. Old lady tried to claim compensation from me later. Quick reply mentioning damage to my car and enquiry about 3rd party pet insurance and out of control dog seem to kill that one dead....
Second dog, playing in park with owner, chased out by big alsation into road, under car, car fails to stop = badly injured very expensive KC registered, labrador retriever, working trials champion, on deaths door. £3000 vets bills later and leg like Barry Sheenes = one ex working dog. New home, happy, loved family pet - My Family pet love her!!!!! With 3rd party pet insurance I hasten to add.
I had a friend who was a member of the Royal Parks constabulary and i seem to remember that if you hit one of the Queens deer in the park (Windsor, Richmond, Bushey) it was your fault, regardless of circumstances, and you could and would be fined for the loss. Its frightening how much damage a big buck with a full set of hat rack will do to your car.
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