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Complete nonsense. All manufacturers must, under european law, make their cars servicable by other garages.
My (current-shape, introduced in 2012) F31-BMW 3 series has a bog-standard OBD socket, which the AA, or any independent garage, can plug into if needed, and access any information required.
What age are the Clios you've got ?
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There are many diagnostic machines out there that can do most of what the Renault one can.However some functions can only be done with the genuine kit.There is nothing to stop an Indy garage buying the Genuine Renault factory equipt and being able to log onto their system.It is only going to get worse,the days of the obd socket are numbered,with most manufacturers moving over to Internet acces only for a lot of functions.(Doip)
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As said the problem being that buying and contantly updating the necessary equipment to properly diagnose different makes is prohibitive, hence why there are indies who specialise in one or two makes only.
My MB indy spent a small fortune on the STAR system, and that needs constant upgrades as new models emerge, no indy could possibly do that for every make or they'd end up charging the same as main dealers to recoup the costs.
Suspect our OP will have to make the trip to the Renault specialist, same as i have had to many times for the services of my MB indy.
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Complete nonsense? I wish it was. This is not my opinion. It is a result of my enquiring if a fault can be put right at one of our local independents. They said: yes, they can make a rough diagnosis with their equipment but if a more intensive and thorough analysis is needed I should need to take the car to a Renault specialist.
Even Haynes, in their manual for the 03 Clio series II states:
"The Renault XR25 diagnostic tester is specific for Renault dealerships; at the time of writing there was not equivalent tester available." (Haynes manual 4168, Section 4a 12, Petrol engine fuel and exhaust system. 2010.)
I have made several enquiries on the Renault forum and can find no record of any compatible generic system. All links to any "pirate" software are forbidden on the forum.
I am only looking for answers. I am not anxious to be rid of either of our Clios, either the 2007 1.5 dci or the 2003 1.4 petrol, but tracing an intermittent non starting fault on the older one has, so far, been elusive and even the Renault franchise, at £60 per hour, cannot promise to find it easily or at a cost which would not render the vehicle uneconomic to repair. Besides, I am not eager to leave the car 15 miles away for a lengthy period.
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No diagnostic system in the world is going to be able to diagnose a very intermittent fault.Howver an 03 Clio is not the science of rockets and there are plenty of stock faults that can cause a no start condition.Renault dealer should know these as do many good Indy garages.
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Yes, you are correct in this as, unless you can "catch" the fault occurring whilst the OBD is connected, which is what I am trying to do with my laptop. It does, at least, perform a basic monitoring function on the Clio.
Yes, the mk II is relatively straightforward, technically, but it is still possible, according to Haynes, to upset or damage the ecu by attempting to diagnose individual components without isolating them from the CAN BUS circuits. Besides, their are a great many of these that have the potential to cause the problem, so I should need to be very confident of the capability of any of our indies before committing to ££££s.
Ideally, I shall need to find someone who has already successfully rectified this very fault on this very model, ideally in my area. Needles, haystacks and large phone bills come to mind.
The various one make forums have contributed a very useful set of databases, through the efforts of conscientious and generous contributors who have given their time and expertise without expectation of reward. Eventually, I may find the answer here. It is certainly worth any car owner's time to consult this free service before spending their cash as they will be in a stronger position to judge whether they are being offered a fair deal.
It is worrying to hear that current On Board Diagnosis systems may soon be replaced with marque specific connectors and internet only diagnosis. Is this a move towards contract type car dealership, similar to that practised in the mobile phone industry?
Is this an opportunity for renegades to strip vehicles of all their electronic systems and rebuild them with either aftermarket retro fit systems, to hack into or bypass ECUs? With so many serviceable but worthless vehicles around and a ready need for cheap transport, can we look forward to Purple Motor Economy?
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Sadly, computer driven fault diagnosis is only as good as the operator, who needs to have an understanding of fault finding. Lifting the bonnet and using Mk. 1 eyeball is perhaps a lost art?
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More reasons why nobody should buy a renault. My brief encounters with a couple of clios showed me what a complete pile of poo French electric design, implementation and quality is.
I cannot understand why in this day and age, manufacturers cannot allow owners access to error codes via the dash or central display. If an eml starts flashing, why cant I scroll my maxidot display to a servicing menu and get a simple error code? I know why, because we are being treated as cash cows, ready for the milking.....
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It depends on what you want to do but if you want full dealer level diagnostics then, yes, a lot of manufacturers are moving online only. You need to be logged in with them for it to work.
Volvo is another one which is all online for 2015 cars.
Basic stuff though should still be possible with 3rd party readers.
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Perhaps if the OP would like to post more info about the non start condition,contributors to this forum may be able to offer some support.The obd system can't check everthing,so the fault may be outside its parameters.
Edited by elekie&a/c doctor on 11/04/2016 at 20:16
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Perhaps if the OP would like to post more info about the non start condition,contributors to this forum may be able to offer some support.The obd system can't check everthing,so the fault may be outside its parameters.
Yes, I think this may be the case with our Clio 2 1.4 16 v petrol.
It is a problem commonly recorded on the Renault forum. On most occasions, car starts and runs with no difficulty but at certain times, with no warning, no flashing lights on the dash and no unusual noises, the engine turns over but refuses to fire up. Almost any activity, such as pressing the key fob, leaving the ignition switched on for a period, just waiting and trying again, singing the Ma***illes, going to the toilet, drinking tea etc will result in the car starting again.
So far, I have cleaned the tdc sensor, removed and tested the relays under the bonnet, checked all visible connections for corrosion, including those in the under bonnet fuse box, interrogated the system for fault codes, (none found).
There has been water ingress from the sunroof, now sealed up. I have not yet removed the cabin fuse box and examined connections to the multitimer (mk 2 version of on board body system computer).
My principle reason for this post was to try and discover which current makes of vehicle, prior to last year, still have OBD systems which can be accessed with generic equipment. Are there any? How far back do we need to go to find a used vehicle that we could rely on and service ourselves or with a skilled, local independent garage?
There are always those who "would not touch ********* with a barge pole". Such remarks are unhelpful and can be applied to any make. We are just looking for informed guidance in seeking out a suitable vehicle that we can afford to run.
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My principle reason for this post was to try and discover which current makes of vehicle, prior to last year, still have OBD systems which can be accessed with generic equipment. Are there any? How far back do we need to go to find a used vehicle that we could rely on and service ourselves or with a skilled, local independent garage?
The problem with OBD2 is there are generic OBD codes and then there are manufacturer specific codes. You could have a car with the EML lit up and not get any fault codes using an OBD code reader.
The only cars you could buy that will allow you to read all codes without expensive diagnostic tools or software are OBD1 cars. Those you could read the codes using a paper clip or an led test lamp connected to the diagnostic socket.
Eleckie doc has suggested the most likely fault with Clio's that have starting issues where the car cranks over and over but, does not fire. Have a good look at the wiring harness where it goes to the ECU, they had a habit of the metal box rubbing through the wiring harness and causing short circuits there.
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There are alot of very good (some even better than manufacturer specific) diagnostic tools on the market. The real factors are the costs.
The Mercedes Star system that GB refers to has (or used to have) 2 versions, A full version that I believe is/was only available to franchised dealers and another lesser version that indies can buy. Apparently the Autologic diagnostic tool could do more than the genuine lesser version.
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From your description,I would say this is a classic case of a faulty crank sensor.This is probably The no 1 failure on this range of Clio.Fit a genuine Renault sensor and the modified wiring loom.How come Renault dealer never suggested this.?
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From your description,I would say this is a classic case of a faulty crank sensor.This is probably The no 1 failure on this range of Clio.Fit a genuine Renault sensor and the modified wiring loom.How come Renault dealer never suggested this.?
Yes, I does get reported often. Mine has been replaced. I have checked it recently for dirt and damage. All OK.
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That's a good start.But has it had the modified lead fitted also?
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I was at a local Indie yesterday. 1st time in a long time. 20+ years ago I was there every month or 2 cars for wife, kids & self meant there was always a service, Mot or something due.
In his book he had bout 6 lines which included an MoT and my brake issue. His business is now based on a fleet of 12 mini-buses with tail lifts - handicapped kids, old folks homes & miscellaneous hires (no stag nights).
Fixing cars is limited by the variety of issues he cannot fix as he has limited access to the technology needed on most models - even low end cars have loads of tech.
He knew the way things were going and has diversified away from being reliant own car owner repairs - more like a fast fit outlet - servicing, MoTs, brakes, steering etc etc - shame really as they were wizards with problem solving on old tech diesels - listening, observing + experience yielded the problem & solution..
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The forscan pc based reader for ford is good. £15 for lead and CD off eBay and need laptopb too. I used to have Volvo specific ppc handheld which was also very good andc saved me a small fortune. Must be annoying if no make specific options for your Renault.
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