Car Wars - blank
I am interested in opinions on the accident on Car Wars lat night, where the police car travelling at 127mph trying to catch up a speeding BMW collided with a truck which pulled out into lane 3 of a motorway.

Did anyone else watch in disbelief as the plod kept speeding along as the truck pulled across in front of him? I thought the result was totally predictable and I was shocked that a Class1(? I'm no expert here!) police driver failed to anticipate and defend himself against the inevitable crash.

I know the truck driver should not have moved into lane 3, but it was obvious that there was a good chance he was going to and plod had plenty of time to brake before he actually did.

Thoughts?

Andy
Car Wars - volvoman
Is this a case of where what appears obvious or realistic to one person, doesn't to another ?

This forum is full of stories of people who, in the opinion of the writers, do all sorts of crazy things for no apparent reason. I'm sure a proportion are simply drunk, on drugs or just plain maniacs but the rest - are they just doing something they felt was safe from their unique perspective but in the view of others wasn't?

I don't know if the police would ever catch anyone if every time they thought a driver might just pull out on them they slowed down so I guess they're in a very difficult position. I didn't see the incident BTW so can't comment on it. Could it have been too late for the police driver to do anything else without risking a more serious incident ?
What was the outcome of the investigation ? They're quite rightly very sensitive about such issues so what was their explanation ? Given the nature of our world today I think these incidents are inevitable - police drivers (well trained though they might be) are only human after all.
Car Wars - blank
Is this a case of where what appears obvious or realistic
to one person, doesn't to another ?

In my opinion, no. That's what I found surprising.
I don't know if the police would ever catch anyone if
every time they thought a driver might just pull out on
them they slowed down so I guess they're in a very
difficult position.

I certainly sympathise there, but this truck was indicating right and, it's difficult to describe, but pulled across at such an angle that made me think he was going right from lane 1 to lane 3, not stoppingin the middle.

I didn't see the incident BTW so can't
comment on it. Could it have been too late for
the police driver to do anything else without risking a
more serious incident ?

Certainly not, there was nothing else on the road, IIRC. He could have braked in loads of time.
What was the outcome of the investigation ? They're quite
rightly very sensitive about such issues so what was their explanation

That wasn't too clear, but I don't think the police driver was punished in any way. Nor, FWIW, do I think he should have been. I think he'd have learned a lot fron the video of the crash.
? Given the nature of our world today I think
these incidents are inevitable - police drivers (well trained though they
might be) are only human after all.

Absoutely, none of us are perfect. I was just surprised by this particular incident. There were plenty of other examples o the programme of excellent driving by the police.
Car Wars - volvoman
Intriguing Andy. Not being pedantic but if you say there was nothing else on the why was the lorry overtaking in the first place and what would have led the police driver to consider that the lorry might go from lane 1 straight into lane 3 ?

Also, did he perhaps think that with (I assume) sirens blaring and lights flashing the lorry driver must have been able to see him and wouldn't dare perform an illegal or dangerous manoeuvre right in front of him ?

I'm beginning to wish I'd seen the film !

BTW what happened to the nutter driving the lorry?
Car Wars - blank
Intriguing Andy. Not being pedantic but if you say there
was nothing else on the why was the lorry overtaking in
the first place and what would have led the police driver
to consider that the lorry might go from lane 1 straight
into lane 3 ?

You are being pedantic, but I don't mind;-)
The motorway was ending and approaching a roundabout. Lane 3 ended in about half a mile apparently
Also, did he perhaps think that with (I assume) sirens blaring
and lights flashing the lorry driver must have been able to
see him and wouldn't dare perform an illegal or dangerous manoeuvre
right in front of him ?

Only headlights flashing, no sirens or blue lights. Another question??
I'm beginning to wish I'd seen the film !

Glad I did, it was an interesting programme.
BTW what happened to the nutter driving the lorry?

He agreed to go on a driving awareness course or something. He genuinely didn't seem to know that he shouldn't have moved into lane 3.
Car Wars - volvoman
Andy I assure you I'm not being pedantic, I just didn't see any of what you saw so need to ask questions about things which must seem obvious to you - e.g. I didn't know he had no sirens on.

The last couple of posts have enlightened me about the road going from 3 lanes into 2 and the forthcoming roundabout - none of which I was aware of when I posted before. From what you'd said prior to that point I assumed the lorry driver must have been overtaking other slower vehicles on the motorway (why else change lanes in that manner), not simply preparing for a right turn ahead (albeit a little early and very injudiciously it appears!).

Still, very glad nobody was hurt and yes I would like to think that all those involved will act a bit differently from now on.

Did the maniac in the BMW get away or did other police eventually get him ?
Car Wars - blank
Regarding pedantry, I was being a wind-up merchant - Sorry!

BMW driver got away with it I think. I saw nothing to suggest he was a maniac.
Car Wars - mal
I have been a critic of the police myself on this forum, but I think overall they gave gave a good account of themselves in what must be a very difficult job at times.
I was more astonished by the biker that was caught doing an average 128mph and later admitting to the programme that he was in fact travelling at *172mph*
Car Wars - teabelly
Yes, I thought the same thing. The police driver would only have had to sound his horn or put on his sirens briefly and the incident probably wouldn't have occurred. Watching the video showed he had plenty of time to do so. As he also knew the road and it goes from three lanes into two for a roundabout within half a mile he should have anticipated such a move.


teabelly
Car Wars - Hairy Hat Man
I too was amazed at the policemans actions. I can't be sure, but I think he actually accelerated towards the lorry for a couple of seconds as though he new it was moving into lane three and could accelerate past before it did so. Did anyone video the program to confirm?

If there was aroundabout 1/2 mile ahead, was it so surprising that the lorry, who was presumably turning right at the roundabout, moved into lane three just 30-40 seconds before arriving at the roundabout?
Car Wars - Robin
Given that the on-screen display showed that the police car was travelling at 120mph and the policeman said the 3rd lane ended in 1/2 mile should he not have been slowing down for the roundabout at that time. At that speed he would cover the distance in about 15 seconds. The fact that he was not makes me think he was driving somewhat recklessly.

I was intrigued by the 2nd accident that the same driver had. Again, speed in excess of 120 mph when his tyre blows. I was not too sure about what he did but he did say that because of the positioning of vehicles in the inside and middle lanes he could not go onto the hard shoulder. Did he then deliberatley spin the car in order to stop it? Whatever it was it was a very smart piece of driving.

Car Wars - BMDUBYA
I agree, the traffic police do an outstanding job, however this programme made me very cross.

volvoman, if you had seen the programme I am sure you would not be playing devils advocate on this one:-) The traffic police are highly trained drivers, who and I quote from the programme, "should anticipate and be ready for any situation”.
It was quite clear the lorry driver was behaving erratically, and the pc did not anticipate. The lorry driver may not have seen the pc, IF he did indeed check his mirror, the PC was doing nearly 130 mph, and could have quite clearly been behind him in the time it took for the lorry driver to turn his head to looking forward. I am in no way condoning the lorry drivers actions, but the PC was putting all the blame on the lorry driver. The PC was not 100% blameless.

Also it was quoted that there are in the region of 3000 fatalities on the roads, even though we have the safest roads in Europe.

Car Wars - Andrew-T
I felt that there was gentle curvature left while the police car closed on the truck, so (just possibly) it was not visible in the truck mirrors as it moved out. And presumably if not, the driver thought - surely this twit won't overtake here?
Car Wars - BMDUBYA
Andrew, I agree, it just made me cross that the police are highly trained drivers, and I think that 127mph was an inappropriate speed to be travelling with the situation that was unfolding in fornt of him. As I say, the pc was not 100% blameless.
Car Wars - Rob the Bus
The policeman in question kept on at the truck driver about him not being allowed in lane three. This, is of course, correct. However, there is no force field set up that instantly repells lorries, coaches and the like. Surely PC Langley should have thought about this and thought to himself "This joker's going to pull in front. I'd better slow down."

I can have understood PC Langley's response better if the BMW driver had been driving dangerously as well as speeding. As it was, there was no iminent and serious threat to life and no serious offence had been committed. (Yes, I know speeding's serious - I mean in this context.) Surely PC Langley would have been better off radioing in to control so that other patrols could keep any eye out. And if the BMW driver got away then, if he/she makes a habit of driving like that, I'm sure they'd get their come-uppance sooner rather than later.

One final point. Is a (marked) police car travelling at 120 mph with only headlights on any less dangerous than an (un-marked) BMW travelling at the same speed? Surely PC Langley should have turned his blue lights on at least to warn people?
Car Wars - Dynamic Dave
Surely PC Langley should have thought about this and thought
to himself "This joker's going to pull in front. I'd better
slow down."


IIRC, from the onboard video footage, he had slowed down to about 90mph just before getting squeezed between the lorry and barrier, then put his foot back down again because he thought the lorry wasn't coming over into lane 3 after all. Oops.
Car Wars - Rob the Bus
Dave - IIRC???? My turn to be uncool now!

Yes, he really should have slowed down at lot earlier when he saw the lorry ahead with it's right indicator flashing. Ok, the truck driver had *absolutely* no excuse for being in lane three, especially when you can quite clearly see a 'road narrows ahead' sign in the footage. I can't remember what time of day it was - maybe a case of the truck driver catching some unintentional zeds? Either way, bearing in mind the amount of training that traffic police undergo, PC Langley should not have been in the position that he ended up in.

Having said that though, his control, foresight and skill when one of his tyres blew was phenomenal. I take the hat that I'm not wearing off to him!
Car Wars - Dynamic Dave
his control, foresight and skill when one
of his tyres blew was phenomenal.


Yes, that is one man who gets through quite a lot of underpants!!
Car Wars - BrianW
I was surprised that the police driver was only using headlights and not blues and twos as well.
Maybe he was expecting the truck driver, having seen one idiot belt past at almost double the speed limit, to be looking out for another idiot doing the same.
Or was he hoping to catch up with the BMW without alerting him to the fact that it was a police car behind and not another boy racer?
It was obvious that the gap was closing with the truck veering out, for whatever reason, and in the police driver's position I would have backed off until I was certain what the truck was up to.
It came over that maybe the police driver was concentrating too much on the BMW and not observing and predicting what else was going on.
Car Wars - Flat in Fifth
red + mist
?
Car Wars - Wally Zebon
He was driving without sirens or blue flashing lights. He just had his headlamps flashing.

Red Mist was probably a factor. When he eventually pulled over the truck driver he was raging. Not a good example to set, but then again, he's just walked away from hitting an artic!

The truck driver agreed to go on some sort of course, but otherwise was let off.

The same police driver was also shown trashing his patrol car when he got a blow out at 110mph. He did an amazing job of avoiding two cars before spining it twice into the central reservation.

After his first accident I thought he was a bit of a door handle, but the way he almost saved the blow out incident made me realise that he could actually drive!

Car Wars - Stargazer {P}
I also watched this programme, expecting it to be the usual police cameras action type of thing....but it was far better. Showed that a human approach will have a much better effect than a camera. A good balance was shown, for instance the ferrari getting a warning and get it fixed notice for the fogs and numberplates to the inevitable speeding and the fatal motoway smash. Several of the officers also made the point that it was the driver causing the problem not the speed in itself.

btw the speeding motor cyclist may have been lucky if he was doing 172 (admitted) before the junction with the police car, but he was only done for speeding...the police made the point that if he had been undertaking as well at that speed he would have been done for dangerous driving.

Ian L.
Car Wars - Chris TD
What I found strange about the Ferrari incident was that the driver seemed to be arguing himself into a more serious charge. The Officer seemd to say "Look, you had your foglights on, and the number plates dodgy. Get the number plate fixed within five days, show it to us and we'll call it quits" - personally I'd have taken that with a "Yes Officer, Thankyou Officer, it won't happen again Officer", but he seemd to start arguing the toss so the Policeman upped the ante saying IIRC that it could be 3 points for each + a fine if he didn't take the correction notice.

Chris TD
Car Wars - Dynamic Dave
I laughed when the Ferrari driver got pulled for having his front fogs on and also illegal number plates.
Car Wars - caz
about the so-called ferrari guy. firstly it wasnt a real ferrari, you could see especially on close up that it was more likely to be a very good toyota mr2 conversion.
and secondly, that guy should have gone a far worse charge for domming himself up so much and thinking he was all that!
nice bodywork to get the ferrari effect though, but it didnt sound correct as he sped off either. Plod should have pulled him up again for pulling off so quick too.
Car Wars - CM
I am getting increasingly peeved at all these idiots admitting how badly they drive and how fast they have gone. In particular this refers to the idiot on the bike doing 172mph. I wish that these people would get prosecuted for admitting such dangerous driving (like in Japan when the bloke got prosecuted on his own video evidence for doing 200 mph while making a video on Ferraris)

I also think that these car progs should not give so much exposure to these characters.
Car Wars - doug_523i
I thought it was a brilliant program, it showed just what the police have to put up with, especially the "bundle of rags" by the central reservation bit at the end of the program. Their hearts must drop when they approach an accident, and have to drive through half a mile of debris to reach the wreckage. The lorry driver was a complete plonker for pulling out into a lane that was about to end, maybe the officer should have anticipated it, but I'd be surprised if many others would. The biker incident showed that having a loud pipe attracts the wrong attention. I also despaired at the council who put up bollards wide enough apart to assist car thieves, what was the point in putting them up in the first place?
Car Wars - Dwight Van Driver
Sorry guys but I thought this was a dreadful programme and as a PR exercise for Plod then a dismal failure.Funny for once SWMBO agreed with me.

Rot set in at the start of the proramme with the Pol/Acc and for those that taped the programme look at the offside indicator of the lorry flashing and the distance Plod car was from it at the start. I was in my seat bellowing at the TV he's going to pull out, BRAKE, but no Plod ploughed on and the inevitable happened. OK so the lorry driver was doing the most unusual and illegal manouevre and principally to blame but Plod could, in my opinion have avoided.

Then we have Mr Proficiency hidden away to catch speeders instead of out in view and acting as a deterent, showing a dangerous road was being patrolled, the better option in my opinion. But there again times are changing with performance indicators.

The chase for the wanted man? Look at the CCTV of the Plod car right hand side - speed generally in the 40 range -chased by a car capable of 130 at least. Then the Derbyshire Plod beat vehicle (low powered Panda) over (under) takes the Volvo and gets in the way (different radio frequency?) - shades of keystone Cops?.

The only saving grace the way Serge dealt with the exceeding the sound barrier geretaric motor cyclist. Calm, cool, collected and polite...

DVD
Car Wars - Andy22
i can\'t believe anyone doing over 100 automatically doesn\'t lose their licence for at least 5 years, totally shocking, what the hell is going on, i couldn\'t believe it.

it is incredably dangerous for other people especially, who cares if they kill themselves, its their own fault, but other innocent people......not on!
Car Wars - dave18
Andy22: over 100 in what circumstances? Empty motorway stretch? I know thats rare, but still. Not a heinous crime in such circumstances is it.
Car Wars - BrianW
Putting up a tin sign on it does not make every speed above that number unsafe and every speed under it safe.
All that is affected is the legality, pure and simple.
Car Wars - Obsolete
I would not go that fast as I doubt I could handle a front tyre blow out in lane 3. It is just too dangerous and I really don't like to be among a lot of the people who do that speed. I find them arrogant and aggressive.

However in my opinion doing 100mph is not dangerous per se. The skilled driver of a performance car can do it with little risk. What is very dangerous is people who drive bumper to bumper or who don't use their eyes. I was nearly hit when overtaking a car in lane 1 by a cretin in lane 3 doing a near a ton who decided to undertake without signalling or seeing me. Quite frightening.

Mind you, from what I have seen most drivers cannot drive fast safely. (That includes me so I don't.)
Car Wars - CM
DVD - can you remind me - are you a traffic copper?
Car Wars - dieseldog
I enjoyed seeing the car thief being bitten by the alsation!
Car Wars - memyself-aye
There was no excuse for a trained police officer colliding at 125 mph with a lorry (which was clearly indicating right) within
1/4 mile of a roundabout - regardless of whether the lorry driver was also in the wrong - I noticed plod didn't say to the other driver "sorry mate I was doing the ton plus, chasing a mythical BMW" - funny we never saw the BMW did we?
What is it we lesser mortals are told "expect the unexpected!"
I hope the lorry driver sees that film and instigates a complaint.
Car Wars - blowpipe
There's been a fair bit of discussion about the biker in various motorcycle sites. The general consensus is that this guy was a complete a*** who deserved to lose his licence for some time, and certainly did nothing to earn the 'right result'he got at court. This assessment is underlined by the fact that he smugly confesses on camera to doing stupid speeds. Unbelieveable.This idiot does the motorcycling world no favours at all.
Car Wars - midlifecrisis
Firstly, as a serving 'traffic cop', I can only admit that I watched this programme 'by accident'. (I never watched the bill.)
Points:- The collision with the truck was caused by a poor HGV Driver combined with a serious error of judgement on the part of the PC. However, we've all been there, he got away with it and I'm sure he'll never do it again.
The speed enforcement guy stopping the HGVs was a pompous oaf, who gives us all a bad name.
It's fairly easy to deal with fatals (automatic pilot kicks in), it's telling the famalies and spending the ensuing months with them that's difficult. However. I did attend 3 fatals (one double) in four days last summer, THAT was difficult.
Forever human
MLC
Car Wars - Rob the Bus
MLC - after seeing that programme I have to say that I have a renewed respect for you guys. Except that sanctimonious prat to whom you allude above. I certainly couldn't deal with the aftermath of a fatal in the calm, professional and caring way in which you do.
 

Value my car