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I was really interested to read your review Dave as just last week I took delivery of a new Forester 2.0ltr XE petrol manual, the 15my model, not the very latest tweaked version. I've always had a soft spot for these and many years ago had the Mk1 which I really enjoyed although the new variant is of course completely different (where did the low range box disappear to)? Thus far I've only clocked up about a hundred miles so I'm still acclimatising to the motor. The car has lived up to my expectations, I'm just having to adapt to the more sedate acceleration compared with my previous vehicle. The fuel economy is hovering around 32 - 33, hopefully it will nudge up nearer to the 35mpg area. One thing I need to get sorted is the auto lock feature, it's driving me nuts, I also want one press on the remote to open all the doors, the dealer should be able to change this easily, it would be better if you could alter these kinds of preferences from the dash controls like the Mazda I've just got rid of. Subaru needs to get its act together with the tech side of things though, a bit more integration would be nice, I'm missing the parking sensors as well. That said the updated stereo head unit is nice. I like the comfort levels and not having to worry too much about our pot holed roads. The standard moon roof is a great bonus and I agree the interior is a nice, bright, place to be. The build quality is great. My wife has a new Honda CRV and that feels a bit flimsy in comparison. This one has to last me a few years, I can't keep changing cars so often as I have been lately as the depreciation can be ridiculous. I wonder why the Forester is still a rare sight in the UK, I find it a bit odd due to its popularity in Australia and the US.
Edited by Mick27 on 24/09/2016 at 21:38
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Mick - over the years I've come to realise that the UK car journo industry is almost completely beholden to VW / Audi, followed by te other German manufacturers. Time and again I read road test comparisons between fully-loaded virtually no-options-list Subarus and everything-is-an-option Audis where they conclude that the Audi wins hands down despite costing £15k more to spec up to anywhere near the Subaru level. You don't get this so much in North America and Australia because people there are more interested in a car being robust and that won't break down 100miles from the nearest civilisation.
Travelling in the US / Canada or Australia you will be amazed at how many Subarus there are yet no one buys them in Europe.
Maybe something to do with our punitive taxes on plant food (CO2) and the fact that Subaru aren't sly enough to lie about their car's mpg figures. My last 2 Subarus with 2.5 and 2.0t petrols each got better mpg than my wife's 2.2 diesel Evoque, which claims to get over 40mpg but in reality achieves less than 30mpg.
Anyway, it's a small, niche club and it's always nice to be different...
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I tend to go for slightly obscure marques, I also like the fact that the Subaru's are fairly easy to work on as I do my own servicing out of warranty. One thing I will say about my wife's Honda CRV is that the fuel consumption is superb. It"s the 1.6 diesel front wheel drive, currently averaging over 50 mpg. On a steady run it will crack a genuine 60mpg+ remarkable. Anyway, I don"t do big miles so not really an issue for me. I've bought a few extras for the Forester last week, genuine Subaru rubber mats V good quality, a thick rubber boot liner (2nd quality but you can't tell, at £25 a bargain, Farad roof bars, decent enough, just got some after market door rubbing strips to protect from the dozy door slammers, need to fit them once the weather warms up a bit. That's me sorted for now. Just going to keep an eye on the oil level as there have been quite a few reports of excessive oil consumption on the petrols.
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Mine has used less than a litre in 18 months.
One feature I do like is the separate water control for the rear window. It means can put plenty of water on the rear window before turning on the wiper.
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A review has just been posted in the review section of this website from someone who owns a 2.0 D.
What grabbed me was what he says he has paid for servicing - almost £400 a time.
I wonder where he lives as my first service was £190 and the second major service including brake and clutch fluid changes etc was £290.
These were done by different main dealers.
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>>almost £400 a time.
A son had his 1st service on a Porsche & it was oer £400 for what effectively was a 12 mth oil & filter change.
2nd son with a Cayenne had a similar quote - phoned the VW franchise for what is the same car - got a price then went back to Porsche & they dropped the price to about £300 - still highway robbery but £100 less.
I have had 4 services on my CRV @ franchise dealers for just over £600 i.e. an average of £150
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I'll tell you what does Subaru no favours in Europe in terms of sales- their marketing is weak, dealers are scarce (compared to Ford/VW/Audi/Merc etc) and last but not least, their range of diesel engines has been pretty modest to say the least. The 2.0 block which began only being offered long after the competition started doing it years before.
Had Subaru sorted themselves out and got their head in the game a bit earlier, and brought out a raft of diesel variants, including a 6 cylinder 3.0 one, they would have had a horse in the race for the Outback/Legacy and so on (maybe twin scroll turbo 2.0 chucking out 200hp and pitch it at the more premium end of the hatch market?). The 2.0 block is ok and revs freely enough (matched the car perfectly in the test drive I had ages ago) to give a turbine like experience rather than on/off diesels of yore, but it was only about 150hp- thats ok if you are in the same Ford/'vehicle obtained for reason of transportation' territory but for the discerning buyer, who actually care about driving enough to consider the brand for the same reasons he might want an Audi Quattro or the like, you just aren't going to be able to offer anything that comes close.
It is a shame because Subaru make good reliable cars and they are a genuinely good hoot to drive- even a basic 2.0 non-turbo Impreza from 1995 will impress you the second you meet a wiggly road with a covering of snow on it due to perfect chassis balance and a drivetrain designed by people who had the mountains of Japan in mind.
The interiors were also a bit quirky or low rent on some models, too. Generally they were well equipped and perfectly 'ok' but Subaru never gave the impression they are trying to join the ranks of mass market manufacturers seeking to churn out 1.0 consumer products sold for the lowest possible price.
I am glad the newer models appear to be doing the business once more. I am and always be a bigger fan of Subaru than any other brand, but I do want them to see them get their act together.
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I looked at a used Forester diesel c 2011 but:
dealer quoted £250-£350 servcing costs
the pre 2011 diesels broke crankshafts and had major EGR problems. Several redesigns later, they appear OK but I'll wait till proven.
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davey do you have x mode on the forester and if so does your x mode button illuminate when the lights are on and all other buttons light on up ? The button for on my outback does not light up. Cheers
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IIRC X mode is only fitted to Forester automatics. Mine is a manual.
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"Generally they were well equipped and perfectly 'ok' but Subaru never gave the impression they are trying to join the ranks of mass market manufacturers seeking to churn out 1.0 consumer products sold for the lowest possible price."
For a number of years Subaru have had both 1.0 litre superminis and smaller engined 'kei' cars (360-660cc), and they continue to do so.
The Justy produced from 1984 was a 1.0 or 1,2 litre supermini. This was replaced in Europe in 1994 with a rebadged Suzuki Swift, and worldwide in 2007 by a rebadged Daihatsu Boon (known as the Sirion in Europe).
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I agree that Subaru definitely did not design cars to Sell to the masses although they would like sell as many cars as possible.
Having owned a Outback now for 7 months (previous 3 cars were BMW 3 series touring, Mercedes C class estate and 5 series saloon) I have to say the Subaru is by far and away the best engineered car I have driven. The build quality and attention to detail in terms of making sure stuff keeps working for many years to come is excellent.
They certainly don't focus on perceived quality although this has improved as well but you can tell the whole ethos in making cars is all about making it last without problems.
Obviously they do have some problems from time to time but given a choice of say a Passat or A6/5 series estate and an Outback for 10 years of ownership I would choose the Subaru every time.
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Just make sure you never buy any used Subaru diesel engine manufactured before mid 2011.
Breaking crankshafts# (design and manufactuing defects ) and EGR valve issues in spades are not uncommon. A new engine at £11k is uneconomic.. and you can fit later engines but there is a LOT of work to do.
# if you search for it, you find all sorts of horror stories...
Edited by madf on 27/10/2016 at 19:43
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One thing I will say about my wife's Honda CRV is that the fuel consumption is superb. It"s the 1.6 diesel front wheel drive, currently averaging over 50 mpg. On a steady run it will crack a genuine 60mpg+ remarkable.
Good going, ours has averaged 52mpg since new, never seen more than 57mpg. It's a cracking engine.
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Subaru Forester - First 14 months and 10,000 miles of ownership - daveyjp
Holiday was 'only' 970 miles, second service today at 20,000 miles.
ECU was flashed and updated and throttle response seems much improved in 'i' mode and low rev hesitancy has gone. It feels as though the torque is improved at lower revs.
I saw the limited edition Hunter version in the dealership. Green with brown leather sounds awful, but it looks v smart.
Dave - You say that the ECU was flashed and updated. What does this entail ? I am still having problems with a spurious fault on the ECU after nearly ten years and 109,000 miles. The fault is irritating but not fatal. In the past I have enquired of the nearest dealer and they said, "Bring it in and we'll look at it". That doesn't fill me with confidence, especially as they are in a 'distant' town and I don't know where they are.
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I assume it was an ECU update as the torque is now available from about 1500 rpm, rather than 2,000 rpm.
If you do need to visit a dealer get someone to video the problem so you have evidence. From my experience of two local ones Subaru dealers are helpful and on the ball.
Edited by daveyjp on 28/10/2016 at 16:42
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The spurious fault first occured when the car was about three months old. The engine symbol on the dash lights up and the cruise symbol (text) starts to flash. The alarm occurs for three or four restarts and then stops. It occurs irregularly, sometime months between and I think that it has cured itself, and then it occurs again. I have a record of each and every occurrence, date and time. I complained at the dealer too often to mention and the car spent days in the workshop at least twice. I heard, by the sales team, that they'd taken a car in part ex with the same problem and they'd practically stripped it in the workshop trying to find the cause, unsuccessfully.
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2.0XT just had first service - £260.
They still charge £1.99 for screenwash even though I wlways make sure it's topped up before it goes in - why do garages do this?
Anyway, it was good before but feels like a new car now - the cvt, which I thought was fine, is now super-smooth, so I reckon there must have been an update of some sort.
I asked if there was a way of getting all 4 doors to open first time but there isn't - you need to press the key fob twice, which totally negates the point of keyless entry.
One thing I have been having an issue with is the microwave sensor on the alarm - service manager told me lots of Forester owners are having problems because it is so sensitive and triggers unexpectedly, ususally in the middle of the night. Anything can set it off - if there's a strong wind and the car rocks slightly causing some loose change in the centre consol to shift minutely, the alrm goes off. Why is it necessary for it to be so sensitive? Someone breaking into your car would make a lot of movement, there's no need to have such a hair trigger alarm.
You can turn it off by pressing '5' on the keypad before you turn off the ignition each time but this is a hassle.
Anyone else having alarm issues?
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No issues with the alarm on my 15MY yet. As for the door opening, I'm sure it says in the owner manual somewhere it can programmed to open all doors with one press. I'm certainly going to ask for mine to be changed when it goes in for service because it's doing my head in, as is the auto door locking when you start the engine.
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Good luck with that - dealer told me it couldn't be done keylessly - have to press keyfob twice.
Agree the door locking on ignition is a pain - other cars I've driven wait until vehicle is moving before lockig doors - obviously no Subaru engineer has to sit in the car waiting for his wife to finish putting on her make up or, if they do, they sit with the engine off.
One thing the dealer did do was adjust the auto-headlights sensitivity - mine weren't coming on until it got pretty dark and I had to keep doing it manually. Then I'd forget and drive around the next day with my lights on.
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I really rate the Mazda interface on their recent motors as it lets you tweak a lot of the system settings such as locking features with a few tick boxes in simple to access menus, otherwise I'm loving the Subbie. We are expecting some snow in the Pennines tomorrow so I might get the chance to see how well it goes on the standard tyres. Fuel consumption still a bit rich, around 31.5 mpg at the moment.
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I absolutely booted mine for the first 5,000miles - to run it in, as it seems this works better than being gentle - and was getting mid-20s mpg. After that, I calmed down a bit and the average crept up over 30 - on long runs mid-30s is easily achievable.
Had an issue with the stupid powered tailgate - accidently hiy the HUGE button that adjusts how high the tailgate opens (what is the point of this, the gate doesn't even open ar enough for me to stop bumping my head on it?) and then the gate wouldn't open more than a foot. Just a pain - took lots of pressing the button to get it back to normal.
An annoying thing I've noticed is the stereo controls won't work when you're in reverse. I can understand the safety thinking behind this but it won't let you turn the stereo off while in reverse. So, you put it in reverse and start to manoeuvre, then decide to turn the stereo off to help you concentrate....but you can't - it won't let you. So, you have to take it out of reverse and then turn the sound off. Mental and annoying.
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Almost 2 years since I posted about my new wheels and I thought it opportune to update today as it's just had its first MOT. 27,000 now on the clock and just done 500 miles to South Wales and back with no issues - returned just over 40mpg at motorway speeds.
Needless to say it passed, no areas for concern, all four tyres still have 7mm and no uneven wear. I always like a good look underneath while its on the MOT ramp and it is looking very clean.
Only observation from my trusted tester was the brake pads are looking low on the front - I expect about 30,000 miles from a set so not overly concerned. The front disks were replaced under warranty at first service so are in excellent condition
I had a problem with a noisy rear caliper recently, I suspected sticking due to lack of use as the car can sit on the drive for a few days at a time. A quick clean and it is now resolved. Rear disks showing slight sign of uneven wear which will be looked at at the next service.
All in all it continues to do what we want of it. Still don't see may either - first one of this model my tester has done, but he did comment about how easy it looked to work on both under the bonnet (apart from plugs!!) and on suspension components.
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Needless to say it passed, no areas for concern, all four tyres still have 7mm and no uneven wear. I always like a good look underneath while its on the MOT ramp and it is looking very clean.
How well is the rear subframe rustproofed daveyjp? On my SG model it's a weak point, not in terms of strength but rust resistance. If you're keeping the car long term you might want to have a closer look and give it a coat of Bilt Hamber dynax or something before the winter salt starts to get to it.
Good thread as I'm interested in one as a possible future buy - keep up the good work!
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Years ago, I understand, Subaru didn't rust-proof the sub-frames - something about how the Japanese never kept cars long enough for rust to be a problem. I think a lot of Jap grey imports needed rust proofed when arriving in the UK. Now they're more of a global brand, selling cars in all climates, and subframe treatment is standard equipment. I bought a new Outback in 2005, drove it all over UK for 10yrs and no rust.
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Years ago, I understand, Subaru didn't rust-proof the sub-frames - something about how the Japanese never kept cars long enough for rust to be a problem. I think a lot of Jap grey imports needed rust proofed when arriving in the UK. Now they're more of a global brand, selling cars in all climates, and subframe treatment is standard equipment. I bought a new Outback in 2005, drove it all over UK for 10yrs and no rust.
I'm not convinced - the original Subaru pickup, known as the Brat in the US and the Brumby in Australia, outlasted the Series Landrovers amongst Welsh hill farmers - a climate not benign to anything that rusts.
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I have a Legacy/Outback, just coming up for 11 years old that I have had since new. Mileage 117000 +. It has had no problems except an irritiating spurious fault on the alarm system.
This spring I had a fit of ABC (absolutely b****y carelessness) and bent the nearside of the rear 'bumper' which sprang out, leaving a crease. When the service garage sent the car to be repaired the expert took the 'bumper' off and warned my service man that he had better treat the spare wheel well for rust or there would soon be a hole. He left the 'bumper' loose so that it could be removed otherwise it was a major job. The service garage had treated the underside with Waxoyl and other things in previous years but the 'bumper' had hidden the rusty area.
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Hillman, i hope you let us know when its time to replace that Outback of yours (assuming its an auto) i might be very interested in it when the time comes if SWMBO's older model is showing signs of pegging out at the time...despite the numerous scrapes it carries and it being a mobile kennel it has proved itself to be one ofthe most reliable trouble free cars we've had and the best value too, having cost us the princely sum of £1070 three and a half years ago and hasn't missed a beat since and my Mrs loves it cos it just does everything she asks of it without any drama or fuss.
She might also be interested in a Forester of around 2008 model, but i'm none too sure if the 2.0 litre unblown engine in auto form will have enough oomph for her whilst the XT goes into max VED band which we cannot bring ourselves to pay.
I note the newer model Outback 2010 on is coming down in price now, however they saw fit to burden the poor thing with an EPB, so that's going to have to be scandalously cheap to buy to account for the inevitable 4 figure bill when that idiotic fad plays up.
I simply don't get why these fine vehicles are worth so little in the UK used though, it just doesn't compute, they should in reality be far more valuable used than the usual competition from Europe.
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I simply don't get why these fine vehicles are worth so little in the UK used though, it just doesn't compute, they should in reality be far more valuable used than the usual competition from Europe.
Quite a few reasons.
1. High fuel consumption (although daveyp's normally aspirated car seems perfectly reasonable) -mpg is king in this country.
2. Lack of main dealers helping to sway punters towards other makes, and I think it was RT who mentioned poor marketing. Also, if you want to remain within the dealer servicing network, the prices are eye watering, looking at some of the bills that the previous owner of my car endured.
3. Low ratings in the motoring press. I know, people should go out and test drive a car instead of listening to people who are mainly interested in pin sharp handling and like to whack their elbow against the door to check the interior quality.
4. Living with a Subaru long term is where these cars shine and the culture of buying on finance new then trading in is getting more popular. The toughness and long term reliability is not so much of interest in this country - image and new reg is all important. By the time the (expensive) new price has dropped, they are getting too 'used' for most people to remain interested.
I'm sure there are others.
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gordonbennett
"Hillman, i hope you let us know when its time to replace that Outback of yours (assuming its an auto) i might be very interested in it when the time comes ..."
It is indeed an automatic, 2.5 litre, and I won't be parting with until I have to.
Corax's comments about high fuel consumption seem reasonable although I take that as part of the price of having the car. Adding to the costs are the very high cost of spares, and you sometimes have to wait for them to be imported. I used the dealer for servicing until the three years of the guarantee were up and then I took the car to my favourite independent. I wasn't sure that the dealer was doing the work that I had asked for (and paid for) but the indy is trustworthy.
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