parking penalty - ticket blown over

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Mon 8 Jun 2015 15:10
parking penalty - ticket blown over - HandCart

SWMBO returned to her car to find it had gained a penalty charge notice - she could also see that the parking ticket she'd bought was on the top of the dashboard where she'd left it, but was upside down: This was a ticket of the type that has no peel-off sticker; she knew she'd placed it correctly but it must have flipped over when shutting the door and she hadn't re-checked.

Obviously that's been a lesson for her, and understandably the parking warden had no option but to issue a penalty notice.

So I'm just enquiring: She has the pay and display ticket, which has the date on it, and shows that she had paid for parking extending a further 2 hours beyond even the time the penalty was issued.

Is there ANY point in attempting to appeal this, or will it be an open-and-shut-case of "failing to display" and they likely won't budge?

(This is a council-type car park, not a private one)

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Mon 8 Jun 2015 15:26
parking penalty - ticket blown over - Dwight Van Driver

There is an old adage:

Nothing ventured nothing gained...............so appeal.

send with photo copy of paid ticket together with an explanation that there was no intention not to pay and that when a door is closed on a car turbulence is often created, especially if shut quickly and that can up turn a ticket that cannot be gummed to the windscreen.

Yoyu never know you may reach someone with some grey matter at the Office.....

dvd

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Mon 8 Jun 2015 15:33
parking penalty - ticket blown over - Bromptonaut

She should make informal representations to the council now enclosing a opy of the ticket and asking them to withdraw the PCN. They should do so.

While there is, depending on the wording of the car park regulations, a requirement to display the ticket continously the Traffic Penalty Tribunal has been critical of Councils that refuse to exercise discretion in this sort of circumstance.

If you go to the Tribunal's website and search the term 'fluttering tickets' you'll find a link to the Adjudicator's Annual Report for 2006 which contains a whole chapter on the subject.

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Mon 8 Jun 2015 15:34
parking penalty - ticket blown over - slkfanboy

You can try and you might be lucky

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Mon 8 Jun 2015 16:08
parking penalty - ticket blown over - RichT54

I had a similar thing happen about 10 years ago in a council car park in Oxford. In my case I believe I knocked the ticket off the windscreen when I reached in to take a large camera bag from the car.

I appealed against the penalty and fortunately was successful, so I didn't have to pay the fine.

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Mon 8 Jun 2015 16:48
parking penalty - ticket blown over - HandCart

Thanks for the replies everybody - sounds like it's worth a try :-)

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Mon 8 Jun 2015 17:24
parking penalty - ticket blown over - concrete

Hello HandCart, this happened to SWMBO last year. We wrote to Scarborough Council with a copy of the ticket and an explanation of what we though happened. They graciously waived the charge and she did not enter the realms of the criminal class! Similar to me in Glasgow with a similar result. However it entirely depends on which council you are dealing with. The Edinburgh parking taliban are the worst in the whole UK but Sheffield and Ashford are non too friendly either. Pot luck I'm afraid but it is always worth a polite request for some consideration. We all know how easy it is for a ticket to move when a car door is closed.

Best of luck. Cheers Concrete

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Mon 8 Jun 2015 17:39
parking penalty - ticket blown over - Dwight Van Driver

Whoops...........my senior moment above,^^^^^^^ what ever was I thinking of?.

It is stated a Penalty Notice from a Council Car Park.

If it is a FIXED PENALTY TICKET as opposed to a PARKING CHARGE NOTICE then there is no appeal avenue as such but an option to content the matter in a Magistrates Court in a Not Guilty plea against a contraventuion of an Off Street Parking Order.

If it is a Parking Charge Notice then there is an avenue of appeal, first to the Council issuing and onwards to a Parking Adjudicator.

If a FPN then consider writing to the Council asap with a photocopy of parking receipt (keep as evidence later)pointing out that you paid that required, that you displayed the ticket on the facia, not stuck on the windscreen because no gummed area to do so, the pressure of a quickly closed door had caused turbulence resulting movement of the ticket to face down. Point out that you are not happy and considering taking the matter to a Magistrates Court in a Not Guilty plea. Under these circumstance in view of the trivial nature of the offence would they consider to save time and money of a trial to withdraw the notice.

If they dont play ball you have the option of taking it to Court or paying. Only 28 days allowed otherwise automatic to Court

If it is a Parking Charge Notice put in a letter of appeal to the Council. If they reject you will get a letter to this effect and also details of how to take it further up the line (no cost).

dvd

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Mon 8 Jun 2015 18:14
parking penalty - ticket blown over - HandCart

Thanks for the comprehensive reply DVD :-)

I am pretty sure it is a PCN not an FPN. I'll know for certain this evening.

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Mon 8 Jun 2015 18:22
parking penalty - ticket blown over - Bromptonaut

Thanks for the comprehensive reply DVD :-)

I am pretty sure it is a PCN not an FPN. I'll know for certain this evening.

There are, I think, only a few councils left in England and Wales that use FPN. Other relevant question is whether OP is in Scotland where rules may be different.

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Tue 9 Jun 2015 20:01
parking penalty - ticket blown over - Trilogy

The same thing happened to me a few years ago in Norwich. I appealed and was successful, although they did warn me that if it happened again I wouldn't be successful.

Good luck!

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Wed 10 Jun 2015 12:01
parking penalty - ticket blown over - mike hannon

Sometimes I wonder whether, after 14 years abroad, I should return to the UK. Then I read a barely believable thread like this and realise that I am destined to die in exile from the land I once thought of as sane.

An upside-down ticket? Have I missed something here?

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Wed 10 Jun 2015 13:42
parking penalty - ticket blown over - HandCart

What's barely believeable, Mike??
The ticket was back-to-front, so none of the 'time purchased' etc details were visible. Did you think the ticket was just upside down? Even if it had been, I'm sure SOME over-zealous warden somewhere might have issued a penalty notice.
Or is it barely believable that I made such a banal post when anyone would surely suggest "Well try - what have you got to lose?"

The penalty is only £25/50, rather than the £300 -type amounts extorted by clampers, but as it happens, SWMBO and I have a lot on our plate this week, and could do without having to compose fawning letters to councils, so I was just sounding-out whether it was likely to be worth it or whether to just pay up, out of 'convenience' to ourselves.

A letter has been composed and sent, so we'll see what happens... :-)

But this land passed into insanity a long time ago. In today's news a scientist chap is being hauled over the coals because he deigned to suggest that when female and male scientists work in the same department, sometimes they start falling in love, and this distraction may be to the detriment of either or both persons' scientific research.

The feminazis seem to claim that speaking such words is demeaning to their gender.
Sigh..........

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Wed 10 Jun 2015 18:07
parking penalty - ticket blown over - Bromptonaut

But this land passed into insanity a long time ago. In today's news a scientist chap is being hauled over the coals because he deigned to suggest that when female and male scientists work in the same department, sometimes they start falling in love, and this distraction may be to the detriment of either or both persons' scientific research.

If he'd restricted himself to a wry/humerous observation about colleagues falling in love he'd have been fine. The offence arose because not only did he pursue the 'detriment of their work line' but went on to suggest female employees could not take criticism without turning on the waterworks.

A dinosaur.

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Thu 11 Jun 2015 13:05
parking penalty - ticket blown over - HandCart

Say it quietly, but I suspect that he HAS actually experienced that from a female colleague in the past, and he's then extrapolated it as far as a generalisation.

Ironically, exactly the same faulty-logic-process (re criticism of men) on which the whole of Feminazism is founded. But they're allowed to get away with it, because it would be construed as chauvinistic to criticise them. D'OH !!

;-)

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Thu 11 Jun 2015 15:24
parking penalty - ticket blown over - mike hannon

Oops - missed that, sorry.

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Wed 10 Jun 2015 13:11
parking penalty - ticket blown over - Brit_in_Germany

I would guess that the chances of an appeal being succesful are higher if the ticket is one of those where you enter the car registration into the pay terminal.

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Wed 10 Jun 2015 13:19
parking penalty - ticket blown over - skidpan

An upside-down ticket? Have I missed something here?

The top of the ticket shows the date and time of purchase and expiry. The underside is mostly an advert of free voucher.

If it was OK to put an old ticket on the dash upside down we would all be doing it.

But its not OK and I think we can assume that is what the warden took into consideration when they posted a ticket.

Edited by skidpan on 10/06/2015 at 13:22

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Wed 10 Jun 2015 15:32
parking penalty - ticket blown over - Dwight Van Driver

The 'fine' is not for overstaying the parking limit or non payment - henious crimes but for incorrect display of the ticket on the vehicle. Bearing in mind no gummed edge to stick on the windscreen and the fact that internal turbulence can turn a ticket over then this IMHO is a very very minor matter.

Whilst the CEO may not have been able to see what time/date on the ticket and has issued a Notice and was not aware due fees had been paid, this will be apparent in a letter as suggested. In line with advice from HMG - not to be severe on parking offences - then Council should NFA the ticket.

dvd

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Thu 11 Jun 2015 01:29
parking penalty - ticket blown over - Avant

This whole problem could be avoided if car manufacturers would just THINK for a moment, instead of doing what the stylists want - and fit a little clip for car park tickets at the bottom O/S corner of the windscreen, as on my humble Skoda (and I think a few other makes).

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Thu 11 Jun 2015 13:40
parking penalty - ticket blown over - slkfanboy

You mean like my old volvo had!

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Thu 11 Jun 2015 18:23
parking penalty - ticket blown over - Avant

Yes, I thought Volvos had them, or at least used to. We test-drove a V60 recently and I forgot to look to see if the clip was there.

Volvos are normally designed thoughtfully, but a bad exception on the V60 was (apart from having an electronic parking brake in the first place - boo) the switch for said brake being placed down in front of the driver's right knee, instead of near the left hand as it should be. Barely acceptable on an automatic, but completely impossible with a manual gearbox

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Fri 26 Jun 2015 00:17
parking penalty - ticket blown over - HandCart

Just briefly, in thanks for the many responses you folks gave me, I thought I'd let you know the outcome:
Success! The council's response to our letter was to let her off the penalty.

They added a paragraph to the effect of: "But you probably won't get let off next time", but enclosed a self-adhesive transparent plastic ticket holder frame thingy, so all in all that seems very fair.

:-)

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Fri 26 Jun 2015 10:34
parking penalty - ticket blown over - Andrew-T

They added a paragraph to the effect of: "But you probably won't get let off next time", but enclosed a self-adhesive transparent plastic ticket holder frame thingy, so all in all that seems very fair.

That seems a very fair result, as presumably there is nothing to connect your photocopied ticket with your vehicle, as Skidpan says above?

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Fri 26 Jun 2015 11:13
parking penalty - ticket blown over - HandCart

The ticket didn't have any of the car's registration number on it.

It did, however, have a ticket serial number on it, which was on both the front and the back of the ticket, so it's just possible that the warden might have taken note of (or a photograph of) that number, if it was visible on the upside-down ticket (I wasn't there, so I don't know exactly where/how it had ended up being positioned). However, that ticket serial number was not noted anywhere on the penalty charge notice that was issued.

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Fri 26 Jun 2015 12:57
parking penalty - ticket blown over - FP

"The council's response to our letter was to let her off the penalty."

Glad you got a good result.

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Fri 26 Jun 2015 09:37
parking penalty - ticket blown over - craig-pd130

Yes, I thought Volvos had them, or at least used to. We test-drove a V60 recently and I forgot to look to see if the clip was there.

Volvos are normally designed thoughtfully, but a bad exception on the V60 was (apart from having an electronic parking brake in the first place - boo) the switch for said brake being placed down in front of the driver's right knee, instead of near the left hand as it should be. Barely acceptable on an automatic, but completely impossible with a manual gearbox

The clip is still there :)

What version V60 did you try?

The EPB switch location could be better but you quickly get used to it, as you do with any new car's controls. On hill starts, it auto-releases so no need to juggle; on the flat at traffic lights etc, just pop the car into first, left hand back on wheel, flip switch with right hand.

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Fri 26 Jun 2015 11:05
parking penalty - ticket blown over - Tester

My 2001 Citroen C5 has one, too. As you say, you'd think it would be universal: simple, cheap and effective!

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