I agree that the overall score of the user review can be significantly skewed by 'rouge results' from people who obviously don't know either how to drive properly and/or who run tyres 'till their bald, but I find its worth going through them on an individual basis (I believe I found Leif's far more considered one) which can sort the proverbial wheat from the chaff.

Besides Leif's (presumed) review, I found that from the QQ owner also to be 'reasonable', both of which said that their cars were very poor in the wet on roundabouts. The magazine reviews also stated that wet perfomance was lacking. Given there weren't too many user reviews, I would more likely go by the magazine ones. Some of the more popular tyres DO, however, have many user reviews and scores, and so, like with the average 'real mpg' on HJ, the outlier scores tend to cancel eachother out, and you have far more decent personal reviews to go by.

The KH27's magaine scores wouldn't fill me with confidence, as those tests also include some tyres that are either long in the tooth, very economy biased or especially cheapo 'ditchfinder' types, which means that in reality, they came near the bottom if you just included premium and mid-range tyre brands.

Unfortunately most of them only test new/unworn tyres, so its difficult to always know how such tyres will behave when even half worn or after 3-4 years of low use. I think some have started to provide this sort of test, but it still can be quite subjective as the tyres have to be artifiially worn down rather than spending many months just driving them around great distances to accomplish a 'true' wearing down. Better than nothing I suppose.

As I said before, there still seems to be large variations in the performance of some tyres from one make and model of car to another, not just FWD to RWD and 4WD as may have been in the past, which doesn't help us trying to decide. What can make a large difference would be all of us bothering to properly and (brutally) honestly reviewing our tyres when new, part worn and nearing replacement time, so others can see how they fare.

As I've said, it's far too early to make any sensible observation regarding the performance of these things - especially in the wet.

However, having done a few miles on them I'm astounded at the difference new tyres seem to make in other areas - the car is definitely quieter and definitely more comfortable insofar as it absorbs bumps and surface imperfections when compared to the old ones. I'm sure the old Goodyear Vector 4Seasons were OK when new ... yes, they developed a crack on the shoulders of all four tyres but only after six or seven years .... BUT with the benefit of hindsight they crashed and bashed over bumps towards the last few ... months or years even. In actual fact I've been increasingly unhappy with the car as it had become so unpleasant to be in but it now feels like a different car.

It's been dry today and, in any event, they're nowhere near scrubbed in therefore the handling is neither here nor there - it goes round corners and starts and stops perfectly well, as would be expected ... but the car just feels so different. I can't believe that the fact that they're supposed to be "eco" tyres and are reckoned to offer less rolling resistance could be detected, but the car even seems to roll easier and more smoothly. Clearly I'm going mad ... or at the very least I think I must be susceptible to "mind over matter" coz I even think that since putting the Millers additive in the tank the car has a bit more enthusiasm than it had before - but that must be utter nonsense on my behalf.

Time to make an appointment to get my bumps felt.

i've disposed of poor gripping tyres very early into their life several times and this applies as much to premium as budget makes.

Ditto, I've removed Michelin Primacys off two used cars I've bought when half worn, the cars were a C5 and a Nissan Primera - in both cases I found the Michelins to be dangerous in the wet - truely awful. On my Lexus RX I removed the horrible Bridgestone Duelers, again, squeally and unpredicable in the wet, and replaced them with Toyo Open Country HTs, which were light years better, the General Grabber AT3s I have on now hang on wet or dry (despite being ATs) are quiet, comfortable and if they're anything like the older versions I had on my Range Rover will last 40K miles. Also had plenty of budget tyres that have performed well, including the much maligned Nankang N607s on my C5 and my missises old C3. A set of Viking all-seasons sorted the wet handing of an ex's MX5 that was dangerous on its hardly-worn Bridgestones, Took a set of O/E Continental eco contacts off her brand new Polo too due to poor wet weather perfomance and annoying squealing in the dry, replacing them with Uniroyals which were superb. The half-worn Pirelli P6000s on my XJ8 made way for (much better) Kumhos, interestingly the Pirelli PZeroes on my XJR were superb. Took a set of Dunlops off my other half's SX4 (only one third worn) I think they had age hardened and replaced them with Firestone Multiseasons - great value and excellent so far in all conditions. (I've used all season tyres exclusively for the last ~15 years.)

(edit to remove mileage reference to Toyos, just checked my log and it was wrong)

Edited by SteveLee on 02/09/2018 at 23:43

To remove so many major manufacturer tyres has to be worrying. I wonder how many people do actually remove big name part worn tyres and bin them?

I'm obviously not driving fast enough to put these things to the test.

Probably not many (but i'm talking over the years here, not every few months), and can only speak for myself but i am not putting up with tyres which do not grip decently enough in the wet, soon as i detect that light feeling through the seat of my pants when a tyre isn't doing what it should it's off..

Same with brake friction materials, if it lacks 'feel' as some do then it's bye bye current pads no matter how much life is left in them...best pads over the years i found were Ferodo, which became very difficult to source, but recently experimenting with Brembo materials i have found that soft progressive feel and serious bite when needed, which you just don't find with other brands.

You don't have to drive fast to discover very quickly whats good and whats isn't, and anyway making good progress isn't about driving fast its maintaining constant smooth uninterrupted progress, once you get to know your vehicle you instinctively develop a feel for what's happening at the wheels, which just makes driving that more pleasurable when you know that there is a lot of grip in reserve that you don't normally use.

Things change after a few years too, tyre compounds harden and some tyres which start well morph into useless skiddoos once half worn.

I had a pair of G800s on my mk 3 Zodiac, most useless tyre i've ever bought, bald in 3000 miles of no grip whatsoever, the Unisteel from the same maker was a revelation though when i swapped them for a ditchfinding set of Michelins on my then Ventora, the Unisteels transformed the car from virtually undriveable in the wet to a decent handling safe car.

Edited by gordonbennet on 03/09/2018 at 00:22

I'm not bothered about brake feel with cars, you have stability control and ABS and can just stamp on the pedal as hard as you like and let the electronics sort the mess out.

Must be me then because i try to drive as if none of that stuff was ever invented, hence why i like 'feel', and i like a soft gentle progressive brake pedal, i simply can't abide that all or nothing brake that became the standard for many German brakes years ago, with pads so hard they didn't wear but instead wore the discs down rapidly.

Don't forget i drive lorries for a living and have done so for well over 40 years, and trust me the lack of adhesion with many lorry tyres in the wet would shock many car drivers to the bone, and yes we have all this stability cobblers which isn't actually as foolproof as some people think (especially TC/ASR), so my driving is permanently by feel for what is happening down at the road, and that has affected how i drive my own vehicles and probably why i'm much more at home in my old Landcruiser than i am in a car.

It would be an interestig experiment to disconnect all these traction/driving aids and let people see for themselves just what grip their vehicles really have on wet surfaces, and to realise it maybe isn't their driving ability keeping the car on the road but electronics saving the day for their hamfisted overexuberance, note how many BMW's (other makes are availalble) can take and leave roundabouts under what appears to be full throttle, you go back 25 years and that driving would have and did result in spin offs and bouncing off the armco regularly.

By the way, how many have noticed just how slippery the surfaces are now when wet, this summer has melted a lot of the top layer which is like glass in between the pot holes and previous cable bodging suspension proving sections, going to be an interesting autumn on the roads.

Edited by gordonbennet on 03/09/2018 at 10:24

Just a line following the protracted discussions that have gone before.

I said I would add to the the topic after the Kumhos had been on for a while.

Over the course of the time that the four Kumho KH27sI have been fitted (four months now), I have, from time to time, recalled the "slippage" that was mentioned and the subsequent comments. It has absolutely no scientific significance whatsoever, and is purely my own observation but I must report that the Kumhos have performed in very much the same way I would have expeceted them to - no slips or slides in the wet and nothing out of the ordinary.

Again I say it proves nothing ... but I most definitely haven't felt the car doing anything untoward and, at present, have no cause to regret fitting them.

^^ All received.

Don't think we'll progress much further.... it's odd to be sure.

Like yourself neither I nor the wife drive hard into bends in the wet - maybe if I were to add some more enthusiasm into the mix then it might be a bit more conclusive but you don't see 2011 Hyundai i10 automatics being driven that way round these parts very often.

Interesting. You are driving a similar kind of car as my old one, and yet they are fine. That suggests the tyre car combination is not the issue. I did wonder if I had fake tyres, but do such things exist? Or perhaps there is variation in the quality control, or several factories making them. I really am not a nutter behind the wheel, rather sedate actually, I now use a VW app that records my journeys, and I am always described as having a ‘gentle’ driving style. I currently get over 60 mpg from the petrol engine in my new Polo, so I am no throttle junky. So despite what one or two people have said elsewhere, my driving style is not the issue. All very odd.

Could've just been a bad batch. I'm not exactly sure if and how they would test the tyres before they leave the factory.

Of course, there may well be an intermediary or two between the factory and the tyre fitters, includng several HGV drivers who could swap them out with dodgy fakes for a criminal organisation, but that's getting into the relms of TV dramas.

Just be thankful that you found out they were no good without being in a serious accident and just a minor incident.

I had the RE720s (175/60 R13 H) on my old MY96 Nissan Micra 1.0 S to replace some worn out OEM Dunlops at about the same time (2003 I think) - absolutely brilliant tyres (not sure where they were made, but loved that aggressive 'v' directional tread pattern) - they almost made my car handle well, especially in the wet!

Apologies if I've missed a point already made, but I found that extra caution is needed on wet oily roundabouts in spring just after the new winter tyres have been swapped back to the half-worn summer ones. I have only had the luxury of winter tyres for one season - the difference in grip is very noticeable.

It’s a longish thread, but I’ll recap. I had been driving for several decades and never before had a skid in the wet, then I had two in the space of a month. On both occasions there were no sudden movements of the steering wheel, no sharp press of the accelerator. You might think I was too fast on the first one, but it’s a very large roundabout and everyone does that sort of speed, in fact I am often overtaken, and in the video the car to my left is at about the same speed and taking a sharper left hand bend. On the second occasion there were other cars doing the same modest speed, so why no huge pile of crashed cars? The first time I put it down to an oily wet road, after the second time I decided that the tyres were at fault. Possibly any issue with the tyres is exaggerated by having a light car with small wheels.

Lets be very blunt - we all like to believe we are drivers of supreme talent quite capable of despatching the Nurburgring in a sub 10 min time given the right motor under our right foot.

Reality is that it could be tyres, excess speed, rain, oil on road etc. I'm inclined generally to believe that most of these events are driver error, sometimes influenced by external factors.

Well you are wrong from the outset. Were I to drive that circuit, I would do badly. I have never driven a performance car, or driven in a racing circuit. Those skills take years to develop and such driving is completely inappropriate on public roads. You don’t routinely get over 60 mpg from a petrol Polo by driving ‘enthusiastically’. 20 years driving, never any points on my licence. Only ever two skids in the wet, both within a few weeks of each other, both on tyres a few months old. Sure it could in theory be any of the factors you mention, but I have no doubt the tyres were not safe.