X plate Citroen Saxo diesel - 2000 Saxo Diesel cold running 63000 miles

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Wed 14 Jan 2015 22:55
X plate Citroen Saxo diesel - 2000 Saxo Diesel cold running 63000 miles - marksaxosales

I have a Saxo diesel 2000 X plate. Full history, regular oil/filter/fuel filterchanges. Recent glow plugs and 10,000 miles ago a cam belt and water pump plus a battery.

It drives, idles and starts without fault apart from the following fault; when cold it starts first time and ildles perfect , at the moment I have to wait 5 minutes for it to warm up and all is good and I can drive off. if I touch the accelerator before it warms up it stalls and excess smoke due to me trying to restart.

Searched through the internet which gave me some ideas. Purchased a Wax Stat (Fast Idle Device) which assists cold start, one of these was listed for my car but it doesn't fit as there is a blanking plate where it should go so I guess it fits an earlier model. Will try a temperature sensor to see it this helps as I assume it is linked to the ECU and replace the fuel filter as they are cheap. Also read about a 'Thermostatic Valve' in the fuel line which looks like a promising answer to my problem....are they expensive, easy to get at for a D.I.Y machanic and can they be repaired/cleaned? Also read that air could be entering the fuel system but it drives so well after 5 minutes so not sure about that one. I also assume there is no post ignition glow plug interaction after start up which aids cold starts.

Any advice or corrections to my points would be greatly appreciated. As mentioned before it starts, drives and idles perfect as long as you don't touch the accelerator pedal and let it warm up for 5 minutes or so.

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Wed 14 Jan 2015 23:59
X plate Citroen Saxo diesel - 2000 Saxo Diesel cold running 63000 miles - Peter.N.

Does it have a hand primer, if so pump it up hard before driving off and see if it makes any difference, if it does it will be air ingress. If it doesn't have one fit a length of clear tube to the pump inlet pipe and see if there is a lot of air when you start.

Air is the most likely problem but when ticking over it is drawing very little fuel and so probably has enough until you rev it when any air will enter the pump, after it has been ticking over for a while it could have pumped most of the air back to the tank via the return pipe.

Have you changed the fuel filter lately?

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Thu 15 Jan 2015 00:29
X plate Citroen Saxo diesel - 2000 Saxo Diesel cold running 63000 miles - marksaxosales

Thanks for getting intouch.

The last time it had a fuel filter was 9,000 miles ago in time well over a year so I guess due for a change which I intend to do while the problem persists.......also read somewhere that the fuel filter housing could cause a problem. Back to your point, it does have a hand primer so I will try what you mentioned.

If it is drawing in air where do I start looking.......one of the new glow plugs needed tightening up recently but made no difference to my problem.

Thanks again.

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Thu 15 Jan 2015 08:39
X plate Citroen Saxo diesel - 2000 Saxo Diesel cold running 63000 miles - elekie&a/c doctor

Is this a Bosch or Lucas diesel pump?

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Thu 15 Jan 2015 09:23
X plate Citroen Saxo diesel - 2000 Saxo Diesel cold running 63000 miles - jc2

I usually remove the whole filter assembly to fit a new filter rather than try to fit it on the engine.It's easier to check the seals.

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Thu 15 Jan 2015 11:03
X plate Citroen Saxo diesel - 2000 Saxo Diesel cold running 63000 miles - marksaxosales

I usually remove the whole filter assembly to fit a new filter rather than try to fit it on the engine.It's easier to check the seals.

I've never removed a filter assembly before, I'm learning all the time. Will have a go and look at the seals, I seem to remember Citroen want around £200 plus V.A.T for a new fuel filter housing, I can get a secondhand one for £25 but would that be as bad? There has been a few filters put on over the past years so I guess it could be a good place to start looking for leaks. The new seal on the filter could curemy problem I guess, I can hope.

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Thu 15 Jan 2015 11:15
X plate Citroen Saxo diesel - 2000 Saxo Diesel cold running 63000 miles - dieselnut

" If it is drawing in air where do I start looking "

As Peter has suggested above, you need to fit a piece of clear tube to the fuel line immediately before the fuel pump & check for any air in the fuel.

If there is air showing you will need to do the same after the primer bulb, if ok there, after the fuel filter.

The car is 15 years old, if it has the orignal fuel pipes, they could be starting to perrish & allowing in air.

Remember, the whole of the fuel system is under negative pressure when the engine is running, Any slight leak anywhere between the tank & pump will draw in air.

If it has a Lucas pump, they also can suffer with air leaking past the seals where the shafts pass through the body. A splodge of thick grease around the shaft will provide a temporary cure to that, but ultimately would require a replacement pump or your pump reconditioning.

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Thu 15 Jan 2015 22:39
X plate Citroen Saxo diesel - 2000 Saxo Diesel cold running 63000 miles - marksaxosales

" If it is drawing in air where do I start looking "

As Peter has suggested above, you need to fit a piece of clear tube to the fuel line immediately before the fuel pump & check for any air in the fuel.

If there is air showing you will need to do the same after the primer bulb, if ok there, after the fuel filter.

The car is 15 years old, if it has the orignal fuel pipes, they could be starting to perrish & allowing in air.

Remember, the whole of the fuel system is under negative pressure when the engine is running, Any slight leak anywhere between the tank & pump will draw in air.

If it has a Lucas pump, they also can suffer with air leaking past the seals where the shafts pass through the body. A splodge of thick grease around the shaft will provide a temporary cure to that, but ultimately would require a replacement pump or your pump reconditioning.

Thanks for the informed advice. This minor problem has taught me alot about diesel engines after some research. I am being drawn to the air leak theory. I will try what you say plus replace the fuel filter and the temperature sensor now I have one but it sounds like the sensor will make no difference. I can see the car ending up at my local diesel specialist though. A replacement pump would be the worst case cost wise and would probably mean the end of the road for the car. This car was purchased for resale.....it had complete history, 63,00 miles, 1 owner and drove without fault on test I guess next time I should ask for a test drive from cold you are never too old to learn. I had been informed that these cars were good for many miles without a major bill and that the pumps were strong and reliable.

Thanks again for the advice given by everyone much appreciated.

Edited by marksaxosales on 15/01/2015 at 22:46

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Thu 15 Jan 2015 22:58
X plate Citroen Saxo diesel - 2000 Saxo Diesel cold running 63000 miles - marksaxosales

" If it is drawing in air where do I start looking "

As Peter has suggested above, you need to fit a piece of clear tube to the fuel line immediately before the fuel pump & check for any air in the fuel.

If there is air showing you will need to do the same after the primer bulb, if ok there, after the fuel filter.

The car is 15 years old, if it has the orignal fuel pipes, they could be starting to perrish & allowing in air.

Remember, the whole of the fuel system is under negative pressure when the engine is running, Any slight leak anywhere between the tank & pump will draw in air.

If it has a Lucas pump, they also can suffer with air leaking past the seals where the shafts pass through the body. A splodge of thick grease around the shaft will provide a temporary cure to that, but ultimately would require a replacement pump or your pump reconditioning.

Thanks for the informed advice. This minor problem has taught me alot about diesel engines after some research. I am being drawn to the air leak theory. I will try what you say plus replace the fuel filter and the temperature sensor now I have one but it sounds like the sensor will make no difference. I can see the car ending up at my local diesel specialist though. A replacement pump would be the worst case cost wise and would probably mean the end of the road for the car. This car was purchased for resale.....it had complete history, 63,000 miles, 1 owner and drove without fault on test I guess next time I should ask for a test drive from cold you are never too old to learn. I had been informed that these cars were good for many miles without a major bill and that the pumps were strong and reliable.

Thanks again for the advice given by everyone much appreciated.

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Thu 15 Jan 2015 10:50
X plate Citroen Saxo diesel - 2000 Saxo Diesel cold running 63000 miles - marksaxosales

I'm not sure which make of pump it is will try and find out over the weekend when I fit a new fuel filter.

Thanks.

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Fri 16 Jan 2015 13:02
X plate Citroen Saxo diesel - 2000 Saxo Diesel cold running 63000 miles - Gibbo_Wirral

If you post the last 8 digits of your VIN I can check of Citroen Servicebox.

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Fri 16 Jan 2015 16:44
X plate Citroen Saxo diesel - 2000 Saxo Diesel cold running 63000 miles - marksaxosales

If you post the last 8 digits of your VIN I can check of Citroen Servicebox.

Will do thanks. I have just replaced the fuel filter at work and filled it with a cleaning agent from my local motor factors for good measure. After pressing the priming bulb a few times it started and there are no bubbles in the visable fuel lines. It seemed to be keener to start but I guess the cleaning agent burns better......not sure on that one. No leaks at all from the filter. Some of the fuel lines are very close to the engine so they must expand and contract alot, if they are cheap I will replace them. May try an engine flush and filter tomorrow as well for good measure which will I assume aid the overall function of the engine. I will have a go at other points mentioned if I am feeling brave. There appears to be two what look like temperature sensors close to each other.....I wonder if one is for the ECU and the other is for the dashboard will check with Citroen, no doubt it won't help but worth a try. Going to spend around £120 and then call it a day and hand over to the professionals or sell it advertised with a known fault to be fair. Just hope it's not a fuel pump fault as it would be ashame.

Another point to mention is that it only happens when left overnight or longer. If driven and then left standing for a few hours no problem and starts and runs fine. It doesn't like cold air, fuel etc.

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Fri 16 Jan 2015 20:08
X plate Citroen Saxo diesel - 2000 Saxo Diesel cold running 63000 miles - marksaxosales

VIN 57323288

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Sat 17 Jan 2015 11:31
X plate Citroen Saxo diesel - 2000 Saxo Diesel cold running 63000 miles - marksaxosales

Started the car this morning, it was frosted over. The visable fuel line from the filter to the pump was full of bubbles so it does look like air in the system. The problem is before the pump I think so things could be worse.

The priming pump was very hard, could be the cold I guess or is full of air coming up from the tank making my leak towards the tank end of the car or the priming pump itself (new priming pump around £70 from dealer after market universal £10 but would it fit?).

Any further advice welcome.

Edited by marksaxosales on 17/01/2015 at 11:37

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Fri 23 Jan 2015 20:22
X plate Citroen Saxo diesel - 2000 Saxo Diesel cold running 63000 miles - marksaxosales

CONCLUSION

After much speculation mainly by me and informed advice from this site and others, I am pleased to say my car is now fixed.

It was air in the fuel system but only when cold. The priming pump has been removed and the car now runs fine so I guess it wasn't air tight. My local Citroen dealer no longer list fuel lines and priming pumps for a car this old so if I had needed parts the breakers would be an option or ebay for a universal priming pump (£10) .A fast idle device is listed for a 2000 X plate Saxo by my local motor factors but it doesn't fit as there is what looks like a dealer fitted blanking plate where it should go.....initially I thought this would cure my problem until I received advice from this site. If this problem had been caused by my fuel pump then it would have been expensive and meant a final trip to the breakers for the car. I put a new fuel filter on which didn't help this problem but may have done so was worth doing.....this was hand tight only as advised but continued to leak while cold so I had to use a belt wrench.

I hope the above information helps a 'driveway D.I.Y mechanic' like myself.

Happy motoring.

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Sat 24 Jan 2015 12:50
X plate Citroen Saxo diesel - 2000 Saxo Diesel cold running 63000 miles - dieselnut

Pleased that you got to the bottom of the problem.

Would suggest you fit a priming bulb of some sort, or you will have no way to prime the filter or pump in future.

The engine mounted pump isn't self priming.

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