Fiat 500 and Panda 1.2 Euro6 - Impossible hill starts and no throttle response - Palma500

I have just bought a new Fiat 500s 1.2 and find it impossible to make a hill start without excessive revving and seriously slipping the clutch until the car fills with a burning smell.

After discussions with the dealer and Fiat customer services they say that there is nothing wrong with the car and that I made a mistake in buying a car with too small an engine and that I just need to get used to it.

After checking the Fiat forum I have found that there are many other owners of new (euro6) 1.2 500s and Pandas who have the same issues and are getting nowhere with the dealer or Fiat. There is talk of a software update but no confirmation.

Can you help in any way? If you could possibly get access to a Fiat with the 1.2 Eu6 engine and attempt a hill start I am sure that you would be really shocked by how bad they are.

Thanks in advance for any help you may be able to give.

Fiat 500 and Panda 1.2 Euro6 - Impossible hill starts and no throttle response - Wackyracer

GB has written about how it is almost impossible to get them onto a car transporter, So I can beleive they are pretty poor at a hill start.

Fiat 500 and Panda 1.2 Euro6 - Impossible hill starts and no throttle response - gordonbennet

GB has written about how it is almost impossible to get them onto a car transporter, So I can beleive they are pretty poor at a hill start.

To be fair, that was the automated manuals, and they're not the only make fitted with such gearboxes out of their depth in similar circs, but the worse i experienced. That was prior to euro 6 which i haven't driven and am most unlikely to ever do so or want to.

Never had trouble with the manuals (stalling apart, but then i stall lots of modern cars because they lack useful low rev torque), presumably the OP is talking about a manual here?

There is reason for the stalling (i can explain if anyones bothered), its not all down to my incompetence..:-)

I wonder if this is another case of too high ratios in first and reverse, seems to be very common.

A typical test drive won't feature any terrain likely to show a cars weaknesses, so buyers must be assertive to avoid buying something not up to the job, if the dealer won't allow you a proper test drive of your own route choice, walk away and test and buy elsewhere.

Edited by gordonbennet on 07/10/2014 at 08:36

Fiat 500 and Panda 1.2 Euro6 - Impossible hill starts and no throttle response - madf

<i>A typical test drive won't feature any terrain likely to show a cars weaknesses, so buyers must be assertive to avoid buying something not up to the job, if the dealer won't allow you a proper test drive of your own route choice, walk away and test and buy elsewhere.>/i>

Precisely.

I ALWAYS test drive a new to me car by reversing it inot spaces, drive over speed humps, at 70mph on dual carriageway and up steep hils.



Fiat 500 and Panda 1.2 Euro6 - Impossible hill starts and no throttle response - Palma500

Yes it is a manual. Various other people have tried it and really struggled to pull away on an incline. Even the director of the dealership filled the car with the lovely aroma of burning clutch on his attempt but still insisted that it is normal for a car with only 69bhp.

We tried other new models with the same engine and they all performed equally poorly.

Fiat customer service also say that there is no defect although they have now decided to send a specialist technician to test it although I suspect he already has his final report written and signed.

It is scandalous that in 2014 a manufacturer can put a car on the market with such serious shortcomings.

Edited by Palma500 on 07/10/2014 at 11:26

Fiat 500 and Panda 1.2 Euro6 - Impossible hill starts and no throttle response - galileo

Yes it is a manual. Various other people have tried it and really struggled to pull away on an incline. Even the director of the dealership filled the car with the lovely aroma of burning clutch on his attempt but still insisted that it is normal for a car with only 69bhp.

Utter b*******s, 1960s Austin Cambridge/Morris Oxford and similar family cars with only 55 bhp and bigger/heavier would hill start with no problem, even do so in second gear if pushed.

As suggested this is all a result of EU emissions levels/UK tax bands and the tweaking of gear ratios and ECU mapping to scrape into a lower CO2 band on the artificial EU test.

Fiat 500 and Panda 1.2 Euro6 - Impossible hill starts and no throttle response - Wackyracer
There is reason for the stalling (i can explain if anyones bothered), its not all down to my incompetence..:-)

I wonder if this is another case of too high ratios in first and reverse, seems to be very common.

I know this situation, I have an old diesel with bags of low down torque and for some reason a very high first gear but, Can start of just on idle.

I also have a modern Turbo diesel and you can't get away without giving it some throttle due to hardly any low down torque. It reminds me of driving a petrol engined car.

Fiat 500 and Panda 1.2 Euro6 - Impossible hill starts and no throttle response - Palma500

Not sure if it is anything to do with the gear ratios. It appears to be a problem with the engine mapping or something as there is a complete lack of torque below 2000 rpm.

Apparently the previous version of this same engine (euro5) didn't suffer from this problem so Fiat have clearly made some changes in order to reduce emissions and meet the new standards. In doing so they have taken away all low end torque and made the car practically undriveable in certain conditions.

Fiat 500 and Panda 1.2 Euro6 - Impossible hill starts and no throttle response - HighC

After a major rant with my dealer and Fiat over the past few days, our undrivable 3 month old 1.2 Euro 6 Panda with 350 miles on the clock has had a software remap installed this morning (6.12.14) and they also mentioned that there is a "cluth re-learn" sensor which has been reset.

First impressions are it is a differnet car to drive, now pulls away below 2000 revs and has sufficient low down torque to be a "normal" car.

Not tried a full on hill start yet but so relieved at this improvement as the car is for my daughter and we had stopped her driving it.

Not sure if they have installed the "old" upgrade which some say has been around for several months or if I am guinea pig for the "new" upgrade which is rumoured to be scheduled for January 15.

Either way RESULT !!!!!

Fiat 500 and Panda 1.2 Euro6 - Impossible hill starts and no throttle response - Wackyracer

I wonder if this new software keeps the car in the Euro 6 rating or if it increases the emmisions to a higher level than Euro 6?

Fiat 500 and Panda 1.2 Euro6 - Impossible hill starts and no throttle response - KenC

Go to the BBC watchdog website, click on REPORTS and look for the grief on

the Fiat 500

this link may take you there

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/2KDpdL4nHCqGzWy8...0

All is explained

Fiat 500 and Panda 1.2 Euro6 - Impossible hill starts and no throttle response - Peter.N.

It isn't just the Fiat that suffers this problem, as a previous poster said the engine power is kept deliberately low to get it into a lower road tax bracket. A friend of mine recently hired a Ford Fiesta on the Isle of man and had the same problem and I have heard of other cars with the same problem. Apparantly only suitable for use in Holland or East Anglia.

Fiat 500 and Panda 1.2 Euro6 - Impossible hill starts and no throttle response - Manatee

Go to the BBC watchdog website, click on REPORTS and look for the grief on

the Fiat 500

this link may take you there

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/2KDpdL4nHCqGzWy8...0

All is explained

Hilarious.

Translation:

"There is nothing wrong with the cars, and we are working on a solution."

Meaning:

"You can trust us about as far as you could throw a Fiat 500."

Fiat 500 and Panda 1.2 Euro6 - Impossible hill starts and no throttle response - madf

And some posters complain when I refuse to buy anything not designed by the Japanese.

FIAT stands for. Ffing Italians Always Trouble.

Fiat 500 and Panda 1.2 Euro6 - Impossible hill starts and no throttle response - P the P

Interesting. Wy wife swapped her 500 in April for a new one and we have noticed the same problem. The car also appears to hesitate when driving at fairly low revs. We had no problems with her previous car which I guess did not have the Euro6 engine.

 

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