Mixing All Saeason and Summer Tyres - motormouth

My Front tyres could do with a change soon. I'm attracted to the idea of All Season Tyres with winter straight ahead, and the level of road clearance and gritting locally frankly getting more tardy year on year.

As the rears are fine, and pennies being a bit tight ( as is storage space) I'm wandering if All season tyres could go on the front drive wheels and not on the back until they need replacing..?

I know its a no no supposedly with winter tyres, but wandered if it was any different to having different brands on the front and back really if done with all seasons ?

Mixing All Saeason and Summer Tyres - RT

It's generally best to put the better tyres on the rear, regardless of tyre type or FWD/RWD.

Be aware that All-Season tyres are a compromise - not as good as Summer tyres in summer and not as good as Winter tyres in winter - but better than either in the wrong season so ideal if you can't cost-justify two sets of tyres.

Mixing All Saeason and Summer Tyres - skidpan

Mixing tyre types is not advisable. In snowy/icy conditions the all season tyres will give you much better grip at the front that your worn summer tyres will at the rear and the result will be that you end up going off the road backwards possibly injuring yourself or a 3rd party. Your insurance company may not be too happy with the tyre mix and an argument could be protracted about paying for repairs.

In the next few weeks I have got to sort replacement tyres for dads Micra. 2 are OK but the other 2 are down at 2.5 mm. I will be fitting 4 new all season tyres and will keep the 2 best as emergency spares, might put them on e-bay eventually.

The tyres are about £40 each so if I only bought 2 I would save £80, enough fuel for about 500 miles.

Safety is my priority and not cost cutting.

Mixing All Saeason and Summer Tyres - Dabooka

I did just this on our car when I switched from summer to all season with no issues whatsoever. I certainly noticed the difference in that first winter, namely getting out of our farm track which is tricky in snowy conditions and often strands cars.

We replaced the rears about 6 months later and now have four matching. For the record they are Kleber Quadraxer and find them fine during summer months, although the 1.4 lump in Nissan Note won't be terribly taxing for them.

Mixing All Saeason and Summer Tyres - Cyd

I did just this on our car when I switched from summer to all season with no issues whatsoever.

There are plenty of people who smoke but live well into their 90s. Is this evidence that smoking is harmless?

The problems will not occur during "normal" driving. Particularly if you are a careful driver or never venture onto anything tricky.

However, have a car/motorbike/whatever pull out in front of you (possibly even in the dry) and have to perform an avoidance manouvre and you are likely to swap ends completely out of control. This is exactly the sort of situation ESP is for and I have personally seen the power of ESP in this kind of situation (in controlled testing). Your cars handling characteristics (particularly when under duress) are heavily dependant on the tyres. There are many other tricky situations where this condition could leave you or others in danger.

You put out a dangerous message which seeks to undo all the ££billions car manufacturers spend on safety. I would urge the moderators to edit out that sentence.

Mixing All Saeason and Summer Tyres - Dabooka

I did just this on our car when I switched from summer to all season with no issues whatsoever.

There are plenty of people who smoke but live well into their 90s. Is this evidence that smoking is harmless?

The problems will not occur during "normal" driving. Particularly if you are a careful driver or never venture onto anything tricky.

However, have a car/motorbike/whatever pull out in front of you (possibly even in the dry) and have to perform an avoidance manouvre and you are likely to swap ends completely out of control. This is exactly the sort of situation ESP is for and I have personally seen the power of ESP in this kind of situation (in controlled testing). Your cars handling characteristics (particularly when under duress) are heavily dependant on the tyres. There are many other tricky situations where this condition could leave you or others in danger.

You put out a dangerous message which seeks to undo all the ££billions car manufacturers spend on safety. I would urge the moderators to edit out that sentence.

How sanctimonious of you. You seem to be comparing this to mixing cross ply and radials, not simply replacing two worn tyres for alternatives. Considering how many millions of cars are on the road with mixed brands / age of tyres on the SAME AXLE, I think I know what I would rather be driving around in thank you very much. Is it ideal, certainly not, but to suggest to do so will send cars barelling along the road in balls of flame is a little bit much.

Are you going to suggest the comment is pulled about selling part worn tyres on eBay as the inherent risks associated with that for the unaware buyer?

Mixing All Saeason and Summer Tyres - skidpan

Are you going to suggest the comment is pulled about selling part worn tyres on eBay as the inherent risks associated with that for the unaware buyer?

There is nothing wrong with selling part worn tyres on e-bay, I would not sell them if they were damaged or had been repaired.

There is something very wrong about mixing tyre types, ask your insurers if they will allow you to do it. When I have rung mine up about fitting all season/winter tyres they have always insisted that they are fitted in sets of 4.

If you wish to carry on driving an unsafe car do so, any issues that arrise will be on your consience but don't advise others to do so.

Mixing All Saeason and Summer Tyres - Dabooka

I agree there is nothing worng with SELLING part worn tyres on eBay. As you say you wouldn't sell them with any damage. However buying them is a different propostion altogether, as not all sellers are concientuous, or may be aware of hidden damage. Maybe they didn't own the tyres form new even.

The OP asked the question, I responded in kind. Not the same as advising to do so. I acknowledge it isn't ideal, but compared to two new summer tyres at the front and two part worn at the back? Probably of different brands?

Insurance companies will insist all tyres are fitted in 4s if asked.

Mixing All Saeason and Summer Tyres - skidpan

Insurance companies will insist all tyres are fitted in 4s if asked.

No they won't. Providing all the tyres are the correct OEM size, speed and load rating they are not interested. If they were virtually every car involved in an accident would have its claim refused because they had different make tyres on different corners. Personally I have done many 1000's of miles with different brands on the front and rear but I always ensure that tyres on each axle are matching.

They are only interested if you are fitting "cold weather tyres" or changing form the OEM size. When I had my BMW I asked about using 16" wheels all year instead of the 17" run flat factory fits. Their only condition was that I fit them in a set of 4, no extra to pay.

Mixing All Saeason and Summer Tyres - Dabooka

BMW state that the supplied tyres are unsuitbale in the user manual and that winter tyres must be fitted (at least they did in my 320cd guide) and that might make a difference? The boards are littered with insurance issues when trying to fit all season / winter tyres.

I personally always try and ensure that all tyres are matching brand in all four corners, the fact was the Note when purchased had Contis on that were legal, but not great, at the fornt and I chose to switch them over. With no ill effects, just like your 1000s of miles with odd brands front to back. Odd that.....

Mixing All Saeason and Summer Tyres - skidpan

I personally always try and ensure that all tyres are matching brand in all four corners, the fact was the Note when purchased had Contis on that were legal, but not great, at the fornt and I chose to switch them over. With no ill effects, just like your 1000s of miles with odd brands front to back. Odd that.....

Nothing odd about it whatsoever.

I had 4 "summer" tyres fitted to the car with the best i.e. the newest on the rear.

You had 2 "summer" 2 "all season" tyres fitted to your car with the newest i.e. all seaon tyres on the front.

My mix is the recomended way of fitting 2 new tyres to the car.

Your mix is not recomended by anyone who understands the simple laws of car handling and is potentially unsafe especially in an emergency avoidance situation.

In truth I have not done 1000's of miles with different brands front a rear, I have done litterally tens of 1000's like that with no issues.

Quotes from a couple of web sites

"Never, under any circumstances, mix summer and all-season tires on the same car. This can cause instability and inaccurate handling."

"If only one axle set of all season tires are used, then it is recommended to install them on the rear axle. Placing greater traction on the rear axle is recommended to prevent a possible oversteer condition and loss of vehicle stability on slippery surfaces"

The last comment might be of benfit on a RWD car but would be pointless on a FWD car. But I have seen it on cars before. Shows people do not have a clue which are the driving wheels.


Mixing All Saeason and Summer Tyres - oldtoffee

Putting all season on the front will help with traction on snow or slush putting them on the back will mean you don't get rolling at all unless on the dead flat. However the advice here is right, once rolling and assuming you have to corner or brake there's a high chance on anything slippery the back will let loose however carefully you take it and however much you anticipate ahead.

Maybe look around now on the web for the all seasons as prices will be lower than in six to eight weeks time and see if a local tyre fitter will fit them in exchange for your used front tyres. I'm doing this soon for my wife's car where the front are 3/4 worn and the rear less than half but they're lousy in the wet any time of year. Looking at Vredestein Quatrac 3 - reasonably priced and very good performance.

Edited by oldtoffee on 19/08/2014 at 14:19

Mixing All Saeason and Summer Tyres - Dabooka
The last comment might be of benfit on a RWD car but would be pointless on a FWD car. But I have seen it on cars before. Shows people do not have a clue which are the driving wheels.

That's true enough. I recall having a chat with an instructor afer a play on a skid pan, and his take was rear wheel skids hardly ever happen if ever (more likely on a RWD car, but still unlikely). Basically the loss of steering with terminal over / under steer is what results in loss of control.

Mixing All Saeason and Summer Tyres - skidpan

I recall having a chat with an instructor afer a play on a skid pan, and his take was rear wheel skids hardly ever happen if ever (more likely on a RWD car, but still unlikely). Basically the loss of steering with terminal over / under steer is what results in loss of control

The man had no idea whatsoever.

With the best tyres on the rear of any car regardless of drive wheels you will get initial understeer because the rear has more grip.

With the best tyres on the front you will get oversteer since the front has more grip.

Rally gods might like oversteer in a controlled environment but on public roads with oncoming traffic you do not want to experience it even once.

Mixing All Saeason and Summer Tyres - Dabooka

I recall having a chat with an instructor afer a play on a skid pan, and his take was rear wheel skids hardly ever happen if ever (more likely on a RWD car, but still unlikely). Basically the loss of steering with terminal over / under steer is what results in loss of control

The man had no idea whatsoever.

With the best tyres on the rear of any car regardless of drive wheels you will get initial understeer because the rear has more grip.

With the best tyres on the front you will get oversteer since the front has more grip.

Rally gods might like oversteer in a controlled environment but on public roads with oncoming traffic you do not want to experience it even once.

Not really, he was talking in context. In reality it's down to more than just tyres; suspension type, axle types etc play their part too. I didn't mention wishing to experience oversteer, I pootle about quite nicely thank you very much

Mixing All Saeason and Summer Tyres - madf
The last comment might be of benfit on a RWD car but would be pointless on a FWD car. But I have seen it on cars before. Shows people do not have a clue which are the driving wheels.

That's true enough. I recall having a chat with an instructor afer a play on a skid pan, and his take was rear wheel skids hardly ever happen if ever (more likely on a RWD car, but still unlikely). Basically the loss of steering with terminal over / under steer is what results in loss of control.

Obviously he has lead a sheltered life. In cold winters here, rwd cars on summer tyres are undriveable due to rear wheel skids.

Taking advice from an ignorant who has no idea one way of doing youself a nasy.

Mixing All Saeason and Summer Tyres - Cyd
How sanctimonious of you. You seem to be comparing this to mixing cross ply and radials [1], not simply replacing two worn tyres for alternatives. Considering how many millions of cars are on the road with mixed brands / age of tyres [2] on the SAME AXLE, I think I know what I would rather be driving around in thank you very much. Is it ideal, certainly not, but to suggest to do so will send cars barelling along the road in balls of flame [3] is a little bit much.

Are you going to suggest the comment is pulled about selling part worn tyres [4] on eBay as the inherent risks associated with that for the unaware buyer?

[1] I don't recall making any mention of cross plys

[2] mixing brands and ages is not too bad provided they are of the same type

[3] I don't recall mentioning balls of flame either

[4] what's wrong with part worn tyres? My 260hp Saab 9-3 is currently running on a set of part worns. All Goodyear Eagle F1s, 5.5mm front, 4mm rear. Working nicely thank you.

There are 10's of 1000's of Professional Automotive Engineers like myself all round the globe, working for inumerable companies, working tirelessly to make modern cars safer year on year. I count myself to be very lucky to be part of such a community.

using my own knowledge gained from professional experience, from friends and colleagues and from 10 years of rally driving I can tell you that your assertion that it is ok to mix tyre types on a vehicle is wrong. Wrong, wrong, WRONG.

like I said the problem will not occur on that pootle to the shops, but during that emergency avoidance manouvre

From a professional pov, I care very much that people should enjoy their motoring safely. I work toward this end every day.

Personally, if you can't take good advice, I don't give a rats whatsit.

Mixing All Saeason and Summer Tyres - thunderbird

BMW state that the supplied tyres are unsuitbale in the user manual and that winter tyres must be fitted (at least they did in my 320cd guide) and that might make a difference? The boards are littered with insurance issues when trying to fit all season / winter tyres

Had a BMW 118D and I can 100% gaurantee that there was no mention in the handbook that the "supplied tyres were unsuitable and winter tyres must be fitted".

In fact I drove through quite a bad winter when the car was nearly new with the standard tyres the car came with and it surprised me how good it actually was in poor conditions, better than some FWD cars I had owned.

I did fit winter tyres to the car because I saw it not only as a safety measure but a long term cost saving one. The wheels were cheap off e-bay and the tyres were way less than a set of OEM run flats. My insurers were perfectly happy provided that I fitted 4 and they were an orginal size and rating fitted to my model, no extra cost.

Mixing All Saeason and Summer Tyres - Dabooka

BMW state that the supplied tyres are unsuitbale in the user manual and that winter tyres must be fitted (at least they did in my 320cd guide) and that might make a difference? The boards are littered with insurance issues when trying to fit all season / winter tyres

Had a BMW 118D and I can 100% gaurantee that there was no mention in the handbook that the "supplied tyres were unsuitable and winter tyres must be fitted".

In fact I drove through quite a bad winter when the car was nearly new with the standard tyres the car came with and it surprised me how good it actually was in poor conditions, better than some FWD cars I had owned.

I did fit winter tyres to the car because I saw it not only as a safety measure but a long term cost saving one. The wheels were cheap off e-bay and the tyres were way less than a set of OEM run flats. My insurers were perfectly happy provided that I fitted 4 and they were an orginal size and rating fitted to my model, no extra cost.

As I mentioned in our former company 320cd, it stated the tyres were unsuitable for winter use, but I couldn't talk for all BMWs. As it was, it was virtually undrivable in icy conditions and on occasion the missus refused to drive it.

Mixing All Saeason and Summer Tyres - Dabooka
[1] I don't recall making any mention of cross plys

Sarcasm

[2] mixing brands and ages is not too bad provided they are of the same type

Subjective

[3] I don't recall mentioning balls of flame either

Again, sarcasm

[4] what's wrong with part worn tyres? My 260hp Saab 9-3 is currently running on a set of part worns. All Goodyear Eagle F1s, 5.5mm front, 4mm rear. Working nicely thank you.

Nothing wrong with part worn. However, plenty of established safety groups have tried unsuccessfully to try and ban the practice (quite right in my view). Personally I wouldn't dream of buying them and fitting them myself, but a close neighbour has done for years. Each to their own I guess.

There are 10's of 1000's of Professional Automotive Engineers like myself all round the globe, working for inumerable companies, working tirelessly to make modern cars safer year on year. I count myself to be very lucky to be part of such a community.

using my own knowledge gained from professional experience, from friends and colleagues and from 10 years of rally driving I can tell you that your assertion that it is ok to mix tyre types on a vehicle is wrong. Wrong, wrong, WRONG.

My assertion was it caused me no problems, that is all. And it is interesting you can rely on personal experience and that of your friends, yet mine is worthless. Okay, glad we cleared that up.

like I said the problem will not occur on that pootle to the shops, but during that emergency avoidance manouvre

From a professional pov, I care very much that people should enjoy their motoring safely. I work toward this end every day.

Personally, if you can't take good advice, I don't give a rats whatsit.

That's the beauty of the internet. Well done you.

Mixing All Saeason and Summer Tyres - Dabooka

Right, my final word on the subject.

I'm so sorry I appear to have committed a mortal sin on these boards, I replied to a question in good faith based on my experiences. I know plenty of other people, whose opinion I value, who drive in bad conditions for more frequently than I do, who basically suggested putting them on the front would be fine. I did this prior to making all four tyres match.

However, rather than informing me of the error of my ways with a "Hey, Dabooka, not a good idea to do that old bean" I get flamed by seemingly intelligent board members. I see on these boards all too often crappy attitudes aimed at buyers of faulty cars, those who ask for advice regarding SP30s etc and can't help but think it'd be better all around if people shared their experiences as opposed to simply condescending those posters for asking. I don’t understand the motivation behind these at all.

Should I have responded in kind? Probably not.

Is it any wonder it got my back up? I don't think so.

Thanks for your patience and understanding, have a lovely evening.

Mixing All Saeason and Summer Tyres - gordonbennet

I see nothing wrong with Dabooka's postings or actions, he fitted the combination he wanted, it worked for him, end of...he wasn't urging every half wit incompetent in the country, many of whom shouldn't be allowed out on their own in a moving car, to fit casters to the rear end.

The fitting of all seasons to the front, would be no different to fitting two brand new Chinese ditchfinders to the rear wheels (as authorised allowed encouraged recommended in lowest common denominator nanny state britain) whilst leaving two 5mm tread Uniroyal Rain Experts on the front wheels, the Uniroyals will grip in wet conditions the ditchfinders might as well be inner tubes, but heads would be nodding sagely because this fitment of new to rear regardless was approved.

I too have been drving long enough to know how my cars handle, if i was unfortunate enough to own a FWD car, heaven forbid, and only needed 2 new tyres i would fit them to the fronts, we're not all imbeciles mincing 3 miles a day who only manage to stay out of the scenery because our vehicles are stuffed to the gills with stability and traction controls.

Mixing All Saeason and Summer Tyres - Avant

Thanks GB - very well said as always. Whether you agree or not, everyone has a right to their views.

I would just say that in my experience Kleber Quadraxers are excellent tyres - good value, long-lasting and equally fine in snow and ice as in summer. My personal strong preference would be to have the same type of tyres on all four wheels.

Mixing All Saeason and Summer Tyres - gordonbennet

My personal strong preference would be to have the same type of tyres on all four wheels.

Agreed, thanks for the reminder, i can't remember the last time i bought tyres in batches of less than 4, rotate regularly.

Mixing All Saeason and Summer Tyres - Ed V

Are all-weathers that much better in their lateral grip?

I'd have thought that summer and winter have similar grip when cornering, but that summers would have much less grip in braking or accelerating in low temperatures?

Mixing All Saeason and Summer Tyres - mark999

I would avoid mixing if possible. I have the Goodyear 4 seasons on the octavia and also had them on my old SLK230. Very impressed with the grip in all conditions.

Mark

Mixing All Season and Summer Tyres - J0HNuk

When we had a bad winter about 3 years ago, I struggled to get up a nearby hill in my Focus. I bought a pair of Kleber Quadraxers and put them on the front. I got up the hill no bother, and was very impressed with the grip. Naturally I was was aware that the back had less grip. Roundabouts were 'fun' when I felt brave enough, but I wasn't expecting the rear to try to overtake the front when simply braking in a straight line. I WAS STUPID.

If you really must mix all weather (or winter) with summer tyres, put them on the REAR. It's safer, for most drivers, to have better grip on the rear. Modern cars are designed to understeer for a reason. It's easier to handle.

By far the best thing to do is have four good tyres with good tread all of the same type. I got a full set of alloys on eBay for £120 and keep them for winter. When my Klebers get past half worn I'll use them in the summer and get 4 winter tyres on the spare set.

 

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