Jeep Cherokee CRD KJ - ABS Light and brakelight on dash - alfapat
Hi ,
I am trying to fix the ABS on the above jeep , front bearing replaced including abs sensor as it was s/h it was better to include the abs this way and was guaranteed and resolved the bearing issue it had .
The sensor has a resistance of .624 ohms and the rear sensor on the diff is also .625 or as near, this I thought was needing replaced as there is no speedo reading . Checked the speedo for functionality and it works ok.The front drivers ABS reads .623 also. I am therefore wandering if the readouts I am getting are all wrong or right , I have no idea what they should be but I read on other articles reading should be around 1000 ohms .
What I havEn,t done is test the sensors while revolving the wheels individually.
The lights are still on of course and no ABS functioning.
Can you help with further suggestions as I am stuck a bit at the moment .
The car is out of test and tax so npo hope of getting to a dealer, they are out my expenditure any way.
Should I be checking for power to the abs as well?
Cheers Pat
Jeep Cherokee CRD KJ - ABS Light and brakelight on dash - slkfanboy

You can't fully test an abs sensor in this way. A reading of .625 looks good. Ideally you need to test for a pulse train coming from the sensor if you have a frequency meter. You may need the sensor power up depending on type

Jeep Cherokee CRD KJ - ABS Light and brakelight on dash - alfapat

Thanks for your reply.

I have tested the bearing and sensor I put on and allthough I get .654 ohms , I dont get it to fluctuate when I spin the wheel .

So if all the sensors , that is the drivers side and rear diff do the same I am in the dark even more , I will be able to do this tomorrow evening.

So perhaps I should get a more sophisticated fluke . This is very possible as I work amoungst these types all the time.

Jeep Cherokee CRD KJ - ABS Light and brakelight on dash - alfapat

I be able to get a frequency meter today so will post back

Jeep Cherokee CRD KJ - ABS Light and brakelight on dash - alfapat
What frequency should I be looking for on this test would anyone know please ?
Also if I was to measure for milliamperes in series a cross the back of feed lines what should I be looking for there also , 7-14 or less , this would be spinning the wheel also , although not sure if that would work?
Cheers Pat
Jeep Cherokee CRD KJ - ABS Light and brakelight on dash - elekie&a/c doctor

Lots of figures of amps and resistance being thrown around here,,but what is actually wrong with abs system?Does the diagnostic system show any fault codes and live data?

Jeep Cherokee CRD KJ - ABS Light and brakelight on dash - alfapat

Only fault code visible on dash that is applicable is the code p0500 and the rest are related to engine manage ment . This why I am trying to test manually as a diagnostic is out of reach at the moment..

As I say the speed sensor is saying a resistance of .625 ohms so I want see if I can pick up some signal to rule it out or replace this sensor , a waste of 50-60 pounds otherwise.

The indication is the fault lam,ps.

Edited by alfapat on 04/07/2014 at 13:50

Jeep Cherokee CRD KJ - ABS Light and brakelight on dash - alfapat

surely someone out there has a true test to finding out which sensor is at fault without using a diagnostic tool.

Jeep Cherokee CRD KJ - ABS Light and brakelight on dash - Big John

If you have engine management fault codes as well - double check the brake light switch just to make sure. As well as throwing up brake problems plays havoc with engine management. Probably not - but worth checking/replacing.

Jeep Cherokee CRD KJ - ABS Light and brakelight on dash - The-Mechanic

Have you checked the VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor) on the gearbox ?

P0500 relates to VSS 1 which is on the left hand side of the gearbox. If there's a fault with it or it's wiring it flags up the P0500 code as the wheel and rear diff sensors won't correlate and the speedo won't work.

In regards to checking the wheel sensors, you'll need to use an oscilloscope and see if the wave pattern matches the other known good ones as the wheel is rotated. Checking resistance will show you nothing except the resistance of the component. Sensors like these need a dynamic not static test.

Good luck.

Edited by The-Mechanic on 07/07/2014 at 08:44

Jeep Cherokee CRD KJ - ABS Light and brakelight on dash - madf

Have you checked the VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor) on the gearbox ?

P0500 relates to VSS 1 which is on the left hand side of the gearbox. If there's a fault with it or it's wiring it flags up the P0500 code as the wheel and rear diff sensors won't correlate and the speedo won't work.

In regards to checking the wheel sensors, you'll need to use an oscilloscope and see if the wave pattern matches the other known good ones as the wheel is rotated. Checking resistance will show you nothing except the resistance of the component. Sensors like these need a dynamic not static test.

Good luck.

Err.. not quite.

An infinite resistance shows a wire is broken.. a common sensor fault...

And no resistance shows an internal short..

So using a multimeter can identify two major causes of failure.

Edited by madf on 07/07/2014 at 09:33

Jeep Cherokee CRD KJ - ABS Light and brakelight on dash - Wackyracer

Even if you do replace the faulty component, The ABS light and the fault code won't just go away on it's own. You'll need to reset it using a diagnostic tool.

If you get the car up on axle stands and run it with a diagnostic tool, You'll be able to see the road speed from each wheel given by the sensors. It is the best way of testing them.

I'm often bemused why people think diagnostic testing is a waste of money. at around £60 and yet will spend a shed load of money playing parts darts with lots of parts they don't really need.

Jeep Cherokee CRD KJ - ABS Light and brakelight on dash - alfapat

{If you get the car up on axle stands and run it with a diagnostic tool, You'll be able to see the road speed from each wheel given by the sensors. It is the best way of testing them}

What diagnostic tool are you talking about here , are you in the UK and is it available here?

Cheers PAT

Jeep Cherokee CRD KJ - ABS Light and brakelight on dash - The-Mechanic

madf,

You are of course correct, but I don't think you understood where I'm coming from. The OP has already tested the resistance of the sensors and found them roughly the same so that would suggest they are electrically sound. However, testing this way won't show if the sensor is actually reading the reluctor ring for whatever reason : poor air gap, dirt/debris on the magnet, missing/broken reluctor etc.

The most reliable way to test if all four wheel sensors are giving a [correct] signal is on a reasonably good diag computer (I've used the Bosch KTS many times for this) but there are others available, and using the live data you can select the four wheels and see what the readings are.

Alternatively, if you have access to a good quality multimeter that has an oscilloscope function, you can attach the leads ( to the sensor wiring plug ) and get a wave pattern like the one shown in the PIC of this link : www.tme.eu/html/EN/digital-multimeters-with-oscill...l

Hopefully, this has cleared up the confusion ?

Edited by The-Mechanic on 08/07/2014 at 08:54

Jeep Cherokee CRD KJ - ABS Light and brakelight on dash - alfapat

OK, many thanks guys , I didnt see the editd post by madf, I will have a look at his suggestion of multimeters.

I have since done another test with a more sophisticated meter and founfd that there is possibly a diode in the diff sensor and it measures resistance both ways one higher than the other, this of course the diode only lets current one way. So by switching the fluke to Ma and passing a metal object , (this is out of the housing by the way) it shows fluctuations so a good indication something is working , next step is to try this sensor back in the diff.Then I can test the rest.

Does anyone know where I should be looking to spot the other speed sensor please on the gearbox , I have a feeling that this where all my problems lie.

Jeep Cherokee CRD KJ - ABS Light and brakelight on dash - madf

madf,

You are of course correct, but I don't think you understood where I'm coming from. The OP has already tested the resistance of the sensors and found them roughly the same so that would suggest they are electrically sound. However, testing this way won't show if the sensor is actually reading the reluctor ring for whatever reason : poor air gap, dirt/debris on the magnet, missing/broken reluctor etc.

The most reliable way to test if all four wheel sensors are giving a [correct] signal is on a reasonably good diag computer (I've used the Bosch KTS many times for this) but there are others available, and using the live data you can select the four wheels and see what the readings are.

Alternatively, if you have access to a good quality multimeter that has an oscilloscope function, you can attach the leads ( to the sensor wiring plug ) and get a wave pattern like the one shown in the PIC of this link : www.tme.eu/html/EN/digital-multimeters-with-oscill...l

Hopefully, this has cleared up the confusion ?

I spun each wheel quickly when I tested with a multimeter...

Jeep Cherokee CRD KJ - ABS Light and brakelight on dash - The-Mechanic

I spun each wheel quickly when I tested with a multimeter...

It must have been the older, passive type of sensor you tested then. These types would give a differing ohm reading when operated as the resistance will change slightly when the wheel is spun up ( usually above 5 MPH ).

I'm not sure if the sensors on the Jeep are this type, I'd have thought it'd have the active ones ? The way to check is how many wires you have going to them. Two wires are the older, passive type, three wires are active. Active types will require either a diag computer or 'scope to read the signals as they don't produce a current that can be read by a multimeter.

The passive sensors give a sine wave pattern when working, the active type give a square pattern. Also, active sensors require the ignition to be on and the sensor connected as they rely on system voltage to work, unlike the passive ones which will generate their own [small] voltage when operating even when disconnected from the wiring harness.

Jeep Cherokee CRD KJ - ABS Light and brakelight on dash - alfapat
Ok I didn't realise there were two speed sensors , so that's good , I'll check
that out.
Checked the brake switch out by looking at the brake lights. And got them , perhaps like the speed sensors there are two brake switches?

Eventually I might take the car to a diagnostic but I want to avoid this by asking you guys out there by using a cheaper method.

So by an old fashioned method I'm looking at a reasonable way of checking each sensors output with a measurement from a metering device and so far I have not seen something I can check or use in what ever parameter that's possible.
So yes I have measured the resistance but not pulse so how do Ido this .
Will look for the gearbox sensor soon.

Edited by alfapat on 08/07/2014 at 00:48

Jeep Cherokee CRD KJ - ABS Light and brakelight on dash - The-Mechanic
Ok I didn't realise there were two speed sensors



There's also two sensors on the gearbox. One front, one rear.

The front measures input shaft speed, rear, output shaft speed and it's this one that gives the speedo it's signal.
Jeep Cherokee CRD KJ - ABS Light and brakelight on dash - alfapat

I have had the front abs sensors giving a pulse on Mv but nothing off the rear sensor on the diff , although it measures the same resistance as the front two.

The sensors have two wires and seem to have a diode in them as the resistance shows higher one way to the other.ie 3.20ohms compared to 18.3 the other way , perhaps explains the plus and minus showing in the plug end.

I have looked at the gearbox and only found what looks like a reverse switch on the passenger side , nearside UK.Petrhaps this is the VSS sensor someone mentioned?

I think someone is thinking of a different model here, unless I am mistaken of course?

Edited by alfapat on 10/07/2014 at 14:28