Another 'help me choose' thread - Greenslade

I'm looking to replace my 2004 Honda Accord 2.2 CDTi shortly, which I bought ex-demo in 2005.

Annual mileage is low - about 5,000 - which points to petrol. The car sits in the driveway Monday-Friday whilst I commute to work by train, but that low mileage does include some 250 mile round trips for business and leisure.

I'll be keeping the new motor for 8-10 years, so reliability/durability is important. Resale value/depreciation pretty irrelevant, as I will mentally write it down to zero.

I'm 6'4", slim, and have developed a few minor aches and pains, so seat comfort and ergonomics are important.

I transport infirm relatives, occasionally, so reasonable rear seat access is a must - no coupes, 3 door hatches etc.

I like a bit of metal around me, but on the other hand have a driveway of modest width, so I'm looking at cars approximately the same size as my Accord: not too much smaller, but not too much wider or longer.

I won't buy a car with an electric parking brake.

I can't see a need for a 4x4 or SUV, but a hatch or small estate would be better than a saloon.

I enjoy driving, and would do more if I wasn't ensconced in a decent job in London. (Home is Sussex, by the way, so Congestion Charge isn't an issue).

After a difficult few years personally, and witnessing colleagues in their 50s succumb to serious illness, I've decided to loosen the purse strings and purchase my first new car: a practical toy, to bring a smile to my face. Nothing too outrageous, though.

I accept this is all quite irrational, and at 5,000 miles a year I should be buying a Dacia, but I'd rather not.

So:

I could get a Skoda Octavia vRS 220 petrol for circa £25k, with a few choice options.

OR

I could get a BMW 328i Touring, with a similar specification to the Skoda, for £32k-£35k after discount.

The third option was a Mazda 6 Sport, but having looked at the dimensions this seems too large for my needs, and too wide for my driveway.

I would prefer a manual, so understand I need to check the wonky offset pedal box of the BMW to make sure my size 11s fit. On the other hand, as most of my mileage is done alone, the thought of run-flat tyres on the BMW appeals versus being stranded on a dark, wet roadside with a can of slime.

I'm not interested in badges per se, but a quality interior and overall driving experience does appeal.

In essence, if this was my only chance in life to own and drive a BMW, would I have missed anything at all in passing up the opportunity? Is 'Ultimate Driving Machine' all hype, or is there a degree of substance to it? Is there anything to separate Skoda and BMW on quality, these days - accepting there is a degree of perception in that term? Should I save the £8k, or splash it on the BMW, given I might not be buying again for a decade?

Given you sometimes don't get beyond the first dealer when buying a car from a list of potentials, should I start at the BMW palace or the Skoda shed?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

Another 'help me choose' thread - artill

Of the Skoda and the BMW i would choose the Skoda. BMWs lost their purpose when they replaced the straight 6 with the turbo 4. Its a nice car, but not worth the extra. The Skoda is good value in comparison, being at least as big inside, at least as well built, and cheaper to own. Its true the Skoda doesnt drive like a RWD car, but i am guessing that wont matter to you.

One other car i would look at, particularly as you currently drive an Accord, would be a 2.4 Accord Estate in EX trim. You wont find one to test drive, so test a 2.0. The drive is very different to the BMW and SKoda as there is less torque without the turbo, but lots of power further up the rev range when you want it.. But coming from a diesel you may not like this. However the Accord is a Japanese built Honda, so will probably outlast most cars

Another 'help me choose' thread - Greenslade

Thanks, Artill. A non-blown 2.4 petrol would almost take me back to a previous car - Volvo 850 2.5 20V. That was a pleasure to own and drive, and I still have regrets about selling it on.

I would have another Accord, which on balance has been good, but the UK pricing of the run-off model is completely unrealistic: as in about £5k more than an equivalent Mazda 6, which is bang up to date. If it listed around £23k, I'd be taking a test drive at least.

Still, whoever gets this 2012 example for circa £14k should get a few years reliable use out of it:

tinyurl.com/m6jv9rg

Another 'help me choose' thread - Avant

Happy to try and help, as I've seriously thought about a 3-series Touring several times, but am on my third Octavia vRS estate.

As I was reading through your post I was thinking 'one like mine sounds just right'. I also thought of the comfort of a Volvo, but like me you'd be put off by its not having a proper handbrake (as you've no doubt spotted, that knocks out the Golf and A3 or A4 as well.)

I've tried to like the 3-series: the last one I tried was a 330d Touring: a very good car. but the real test is often how you feel when you get back into your own car after the test drive. And the Octavia wasn't disgraced - for me at any rate.

For some people, particularly those who like to drive near a car's limits, a BMW will always be the ultimate driving machine, and they will think that the extra 'drivability' is worth the extra money. I like to get a move on (hence the vRS) but I'm perhaps too relaxed a driver (I'm also 65 years old!) to value that extra virtue. An Audi would do me fine, although the Octavia is much better value and to my mind the vRS steering is more direct than an Audi's.

Build quality - not much in it I'd say. Ultimately the 3-series was not for me as I couldn't get comfortable in it. Unless you pay about £1,000 for electric seat adjustment, you have to heave yourself up to adjust the seat height; and worse, with my figure (5' 7", average size body but short legs) to operate the pedals I'm too near the steering wheel. With all VAG cars I can have the wheel far enough away from me.

Try to get a good long test drive in each, and decide whether the BMW is worth the extra. The only thing that might nearly have swung it for me was the BMW straight-six: a 330i would be worth it over a 328i. If you don't want to pay more for this, then the Octavia vRS is going to be very tempting (and of course a lot roomier in seating and boot space). The GTI engine is terrific, and is just as happy pootling (as one has to for much of the time) as it is when you use the performance.

If you do go for a vRS, the petrol manual is much the best - basically a Golf GTI with more room and less cost, and a handbrake.

Edit - the Octavia can have a space-saver spare wheel for a small extra cost: I wouldn't have had it without. Run-flats are a mixed blessing: you can get home, but a puncture inevitably means a new tyre. And I believe they make the ride harder too.

Edited by Avant on 25/04/2014 at 23:50

Another 'help me choose' thread - Happy Blue!

My concern is the need to transport elderly and infirm people. They would appreciate a slightly higher vehicle, so a good five seat MPV or SUV may be better.

Have you looked at a Ford Kuga or an S-Max with the 2.0 turbo engine? Or an Octavia Scout? Mercedes B220?

PS dont worry about electric handbrakes. Mine has been faultless for four years.

Another 'help me choose' thread - gordonbennet
PS dont worry about electric handbrakes. Mine has been faultless for four years.

Braver man than me tempting the gods of fate.

Another 'help me choose' thread - corax

Try a BMW with the straight six 3.0 litre. Silky smooth, sublime engine that just keeps producing power all the way up the rev range. And not even thirsty considering the power, around 30mpg average.

If you are 6'4" and slim you may find that the BMW suits, as long as you are OK with the slightly offset position. I'm 6', slim with long arms and legs and size 9's - my 3 series suited me for six years with one caveat. Try to get sports seats - they are very supportive with a pull out section at the front for the back of the knees.

A friend has a BMW 330D touring for his wife and did have an Octavia VRS before he swapped to an Audi A4. He found the VRS to have lighter steering and controls, and much lighter on it's feet compared to the BMW's heavy over engineered feel.

One downside depending on your personal preference is that you would probably need to go for a sport version of the BMW to get the seats, so make sure you're OK with the ride quality, especially if it's fitted with run flats.

Edited by corax on 26/04/2014 at 15:20

Another 'help me choose' thread - Greenslade

Thanks, Corax.

I have already built my fantasy BMW on their excellent configurator, which would be a 328i Sport (NOT M Sport) Touring, with sports seats (standard) and lumbar support (optional). Plus adaptive suspension, which is a much-recommended option. I like a firm-ish ride, but it would be nice to retain an intact spine, so 19 inch 'bling' wheels are out.

The 'six' is tempting, but not needed for performance given the astonishing numbers the 328i generates - ie not much over six seconds, to 60 mph. But yes, I'm sure I'd appreciate the extra refinement, and will bear this in mind given the relatively limited price differential.

Another 'help me choose' thread - Greenslade

Thanks, Happy Blue.

There are times when *I* could appreciate a taller vehicle, given my height and slight creakiness, but I think that will be the sensible purchase in 8-10 years time. This is my final flush of youth!

At this stage, I think my elderly folk will cope with another conventional four door car: the Skoda better than the low-slung BMW, I'm sure.

In extremis, my brother has an S-Max (impressive car) for his large brood, which could be borrowed, but I hope that won't be necessary for a few years.

Another 'help me choose' thread - Greenslade

Thanks, Avant: that's very helpful.

My idea of fun is 'point and squirt' on free-flowing A-roads, and swift overtakes. I won't be cornering on two wheels, so you may be right about the on-the-limit RWD BMW capabilities being unnecessary.

As you've identified, the A3 Sportback and Golf GTi - which would have been contenders - were ruled out due to the handbrake issue. In any event, the Skoda is larger, cheaper and more practical.

I'll try to get a decent test drive in both potential cars. Two more thoughts have occurred to me about the Skoda:

1. The vRS has a deep front fettle, and my driveway is on a steep(ish) gradient that levels-off. I better make sure this car could be parked without scraping the undercarriage, before committing!

2. The vRS interior appears to be entirely black, from carpet to seats to headlining. No other colour options are available. I better think about a sunroof, on this one, to brighten things up a bit. Hopefully this option doesn't eat into the headroom too seriously, bearing in mind my height. The BMW can be specified in a vast range of upholstery and trim colours: for a price, of course.

Yes, I would go for a manual, and have a hunch this is not the natural choice for a well-optioned BMW. Although in ten years it will be worth peanuts anyway.

I would certainly specify the space-saver spare if going for the Skoda, along with the high-end Sat Nav which looks impressive, and heated seats - having been converted to that cause by Volvo, many years ago.

Thanks again for the input.

Another 'help me choose' thread - jgrahampo

not sure if it has electric parking brake but what about the recenly launched Civic Tourer of a SEAT Leon ST Cupra if available. Seat build qualitymay not be up there with the best but has come on in leaps and bounds.

Or back to Volvo and a V40 cross country petrol

for ergonomics and back comfort the Volvo will win hands down. The only reason I did not buy an Octavia Scout but got a V50 instead was that the Octavia aggravated my lower back pain. Two Skoda dealers were very good giving me a car for an afternoon and a dayand I was very disappointed the seats were uncomfy.

Do not rush your decision and push the dealers for a good long unacompanied test drive. It is a costly decision to rush and regret.

Edited by jgrahampo on 26/04/2014 at 20:25

Another 'help me choose' thread - Avant

It's worth pointing out that the Octavia vRS seats are a lot more supportive than those in lesser Octavias.

But this one will be decided on a test drive. Greenslade, you obviously have a clear idea of what you want from a car, and my hunch is that you'll get it from either the Octavia or the 3-series, but probably not both.

Good luck, and do come back and tell us what you eventually decide on.

Another 'help me choose' thread - oldtoffee

I had a vRS petrol, 06 MY and I rate the engine as one of the very best around. Maybe not as good as the BM straight six but still very very smooth, torquey and fast and over 30mpg easily even when pressing on. The brakes are fantastic - I had a Fabia vRS before and the brakes were rubbish. Handling is good, safe and being front wheel drive if you ever overcook it understeer is preferable to oversteer for most of us. Plenty of space in an Octavia, more than a 3 series I reckon.

If you were asking diesel 3 series or Octavia I'd say any 6 cylinder BMW diesel as they are in a different class. I had use of a 330d for a day, sublime.

Another 'help me choose' thread - jgrahampo

It wasnt the lack of support from the seats just something about the construction of the base. This was a Mk2 Octavia on my 1999 Mk1 SLX TDI the seats were fine

Other people have also commented that I have spoken to. Also seems a common complaint on Superb seats too.

But yes, what suits one does not always suit another which is why I cannot stress a lengthy test drive highly enough.

In mnay ways I wish I had not been lured by the scrappage scheme but put a new clutch in my Octavia and run it till it was welland truly dead. Build quality was far better than those built today. A fact mirrored by my friends P reg A4 Avant now on 300000m battered as hell but he uses it like a works van to set up signage in forest rally stages.

Edited by jgrahampo on 27/04/2014 at 11:16

Another 'help me choose' thread - Greenslade

Thought I would come back with an update, as folk here were kind enough to provide advice... which in the great male tradition I prevaricated over for months, and then completely ignored.

Having re-considered my needs and budget, I viewed and drove the following, in petrol form:

1. Ford Focus

2. Volvo V40

3. Skoda Octavia

4. Honda Civic

5. Volkswagen Golf

The Ford was a nice drive, but I wasn't a fan of the cabin design and both the rear quarters and boot seemed disappointingly small relative to the external dimensions. There was very little legroom behind the drivers seat when set for my 6'4" height.

The Volvo had a beautiful cockpit - the best of the bunch - and probably the most comfortable front seats, long term. Unfortunately the rear quarters were not only cramped but claustrophobic thanks to the swooping window line, and access to the rear seats would have been cumbersome for my ageing parents.

The Skoda won on space and accessibility. I looked at it before the Golf, and whilst I knew Skoda had come along in leaps and bounds in terms of perceived quality, it exceeded my expectations nonetheless. Basically, 90% of Golf quality (real or perceived) for 85% of the cost: and bigger, too.

On the debit side, my local Skoda dealer seemed to be suffering from their success. They have outgrown their premises, and particularly their customer car parking facilities. I was advised to visit on a Saturday afternoon when the local estate roads would be free of employee parking. The intending customer experience generally wasn't great.

The Honda dealer I was familiar with through servicing my Accord: a very relaxed, professional, personal service. I was given the keys to a Civic 1.8 Tourer and told 'see you later' with no time pressure.

I enjoyed the Civic, although I thought both the adjustable dampers and 'Econ' button had no discernable impact on the driving experience. The digital dashboard is very 'Marmite', but I could live with it.

The thing is, I neither needed nor really wanted an estate. But the Civic hatch - familiar theme - has cramped and claustrophobic rear quarters, although this time allied to a large boot. The Tourer has a vast capacity - wardrobe-sized - but I carry people more frequently than wardbrobes, and overall I was left with the feeling a higher proportion of the internal dimensions could have been applied to the rear bench and legroom.

Whilst I felt some brand loyalty to Honda, the non-turbo 1.8 VTEC engine is now quite old-tech with all the pros and cons that implies: ie well-proven and extremely reliable, but relatively dirty (149g CO2) and not very efficient in the real world, due to the need to rev it quite hard to make progress on A-roads.

More generally, when I look at Honda's shrunken range of slightly strange-shaped vehicles, I wonder who they think they are marketing to. Their older clientele (the majority, in my part of the world) must be rather bemused by the showroom full of Type R's, ordinary Civics with Star Trek dashboards and that Nissan Juke look-alike. I suppose they still have the Jazz for people who want a 'normal' car.

After all that... I ended up buying a Golf 1.4 TSI GT (manual). Five months and 2000 miles later, the special-ness of the interior and smoothness of the drive still bring a smile to my face, which the solid but dull Accord never did.

My local dealer was quite impressive, with none of the arrogance sometimes reported of VW franchises. The handover, in particular, was thorough and unhurried. They matched the best quote I obtained from Car Wow, and gave me a decent PX figure on the 2004 Accord which - frankly - was looking rather sad due to flaking alloys x4.

Mum and Dad like the relative ease of access ('better than your old car') and also the quality of the ride ('less crashy than your Honda'). The shape of the Golf really suits my needs: quite compact externally, but with a boxy and practical interior. The driving position is great, and the seat really comfy: it's a personal preference, but I love the Alcantara trim in GT spec, too.

I'm getting 40 mpg on mixed driving, and nudging 50 mpg on 6th gear motorway cruises. It spends a lot of time running on two cylinders, as my driving style is relaxed. I've never looked at the official figures as fuel economy was never my primary concern, but in the historical context of motoring, 40-50 mpg sounds good for a 150 bhp petrol motor.

Overall it's very polished, and whilst it's early days, if I won the lottery I might consider trading-up to a GTi or R.

However, I've hedged my bets with an extended warranty....

Negatives? I have a plastic squeak from the front passenger seat area, which is intermittent and I've not been able to pinpoint so far. The dealer can have a look in due course. Also, the digital radio doesn't like the countryside or tall buildings: it's pretty hopeless. The adjustable dampers and xenon headlights were good options to tick, but the big screen sat nav is difficult to justify, for the price.

And finally, the Electronic Parking Brake....

Hmm...

It works well, but I still get nervous on hill starts. Will it release too early and cause roll-back, or fail to release at all, at a tricky spot in traffic? I am one of lifes worriers, but put it this way: if I lived in Lynton, I would have bought the Skoda or Honda instead.

Another 'help me choose' thread - Avant

That sounds like a really good choice, Greenslade - the 1.4 TSI is a terrific engine, as is the 2.0 TSI, and the Golf has been well designed to be roomy on the inside without being too big externally.

Thank you so much for coming back to us.