Ford Fiesta MK6 - 2002, 1.4 petrol - Ford Fiesta - Tapping noise - tappets clearance? - Chris Abr

Hi,

I'm having a bit of a problem with my car, it's making a lot of noise when I put my food down, it starts doing this tapping or knocking noise.

I've changed the oil for fully synthetic, but this wouldn't be it - the tappets are not hydraulic in this car.

I've suspected a number of things, but the one that seems to make most sense is tappets. As the noise only happens roughly every second revolution - so 8.3Hz/500 times a minute at 1000RPM.

I think it's the tappets because I checked the clearance, and they're above the spec (spec is 0.23mm, but the clearance is 0.24 on one of them, and 0.23 on the rest of them). Would too much clearance make this kind of a noise when advancing timing (putting my food down) ?

Have a listen, there is a shorter video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GVN09mYS6s

And a longer here, which I think has better sound quality:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kXT0ZElN6s

I'd appreciate some opinions on this.

EDIT:

Also, just to mention, the engine has had 115k miles done, and I don't think the tappets clearances were ever adjusted.

Edited by Chris Abr on 14/04/2014 at 17:35

Ford Fiesta MK6 - 2002, 1.4 petrol - Ford Fiesta - Tapping noise - tappets clearance? - Peter.N.

Dont know much about modern petrol engines but to adjust the clearances on most diesels you have to remove the camshaft and have a wide selection of shims. I wouldn't think that the difference in your clearance figures would be enough to cause the tapping and they don't usually tap only when under load, what you have there sounds like a small end bush but its not very loud, personally I wouldn't worry about it. But as I say, I don't know the engines well, maybe someone else does.

Ford Fiesta MK6 - 2002, 1.4 petrol - Ford Fiesta - Tapping noise - tappets clearance? - thunderbird

Agree with Peter than the tiny variation is insufficient to make any noise.

I would suggest that it could be a noisy injector or possibly a tiny leak in the exhaust area.

Ford Fiesta MK6 - 2002, 1.4 petrol - Ford Fiesta - Tapping noise - tappets clearance? - bathtub tom

I suggest you get your (hot) oil pressure measured. Worrying that it's more noticeable on load.

Ford Fiesta MK6 - 2002, 1.4 petrol - Ford Fiesta - Tapping noise - tappets clearance? - dadbif
It's not a fan blade catching is it, worn engine mount allowing the engine to move under load and the fan catches on something??
Ford Fiesta MK6 - 2002, 1.4 petrol - Ford Fiesta - Tapping noise - tappets clearance? - edlithgow

Did the change you noticed coincide with the change to synthetic oil?

If the synthetic oil was a trendily lower viscosity compared to what you were using before, it might alter engine sounds directly (higher viscosities tend to be quieter)

If might also influence oil pressures, which could also alter the generation of sounds, increasing the noise from an over-clearance bearing, for example.

Ford Fiesta MK6 - 2002, 1.4 petrol - Ford Fiesta - Tapping noise - tappets clearance? - Chris Abr

I see what you're saying, but the intensity of the noise is about once every two revs - wouldn't small end knocking be doing it every single rev?

Thunderbird - I have checked the exhaust area, but there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with it. Do you think it may be just a case of tightening the bolts holding the exhaust in place?

I've also ran some injector cleaning stuff from EuroCarParts, but it made no difference.

Tom - What would it be if the pressure was wrong?

I also don't understand what oil pressure would have to do with the noise?

Dadbif:

The fan is placed away from the engine, so this wouldn't be it. But I have seen that one of the engine mounts is worn, but this wouldn't be making this sound, would it? It'd just make the engine a little rough on idle (as its moving about slightly)

Edlithgow:

I don't think it did, it started hapenning after I had some misfire problems - the coil pack was not right, and as soon as I put the foot down just slightly the engine would start stuttering. It was like this for a week or two, I changed the coilpack and leads, as well as spark plugs and airfilter, and it was fine after that. The noise came a month or so after this was fixed.

But I did add some oil additive to quieten the valves (not knowing back then that my valves were not hydraulic), so the oil is a lot less viscous now. But the noise was like this before, so the oil viscosity probably didn't make any difference.

However, the noise seems to be a little quieter when the engine warms up - what could this mean?

Edited by Chris Abr on 17/04/2014 at 11:53

Ford Fiesta MK6 - 2002, 1.4 petrol - Ford Fiesta - Tapping noise - tappets clearance? - Bolt

Sounds like its pinking to me

Ford Fiesta MK6 - 2002, 1.4 petrol - Ford Fiesta - Tapping noise - tappets clearance? - edlithgow

The pinking suggestion seems to make sense, though it doesn't seem to fit the "quiter when warm" observation.

The terms in this area tend to be misused, but I think "pinking" is usually taken to mean "knocking" or "detonation"

I dunno much about recent cars, but wouldn't something this new have a knock sensor, so it'd alter the ignition timing to stop it happening?

In my 1986 Skywing I've had an intermittent sharp tap that I suspected was pre-ignition (not exactly the same thing, but a knock sensor probably couldn't tell the difference) but it was less regular than the OP describes. (my sound card is stuffed so I can't listen to the vid.)

It went away after messing around with water injection into the running engine, tending to confirm the diagnosis.

You could try that (its free and shouldn't do any harm with distilled water in a plant sprayer, though that'll take a tediously long time) and/or try upping the octane rating of your fuel and seeing if it makes any difference.

Edited by edlithgow on 17/04/2014 at 15:32

Ford Fiesta MK6 - 2002, 1.4 petrol - Ford Fiesta - Tapping noise - tappets clearance? - bathtub tom

>>I see what you're saying, but the intensity of the noise is about once every two revs - wouldn't small end knocking be doing it every single rev?

The 4-stroke cycle only fires every 720 degrees (every second revolution). The maximum load on the bearings occurs during combustion.

If the oil pressure's low, it would indicate worn bearings.

It's an old car with a good number of miles on it, although I'd expect a well maintained, modern engine to last longer. Do you know its service history?

Ford Fiesta MK6 - 2002, 1.4 petrol - Ford Fiesta - Tapping noise - tappets clearance? - Bolt

it sounds like tappets after listening on decent headphones,ps if this has the same tappets of the earlier model the tappets wear around valve stem so using a feeler guage is useless

Also had oil feed problems that I recall

I may be wrong but it sounds like it

Ford Fiesta MK6 - 2002, 1.4 petrol - Ford Fiesta - Tapping noise - tappets clearance? - Chris Abr

Right.. Are you sure about that? replacing the shims is a job, but replacing the valves too is an entirely different kind of a beast to do..

Also, the valve clearance is 0.24mm, when the spec should be between 0.17 and 0.23mm.

I've heard that the clearance is supposed to decrease, not increase?

What's wrong with it when the clearance is higher, not lower?

Would that be wear on the shim rather than the valve itself ?

Ford Fiesta MK6 - 2002, 1.4 petrol - Ford Fiesta - Tapping noise - tappets clearance? - Chris Abr

This would make sense..

I'll try to get some pressure testing equipment to check it. But the sensor is not showing any problems, so I doubt this would be the problem.

For now, I'll just see whether I can check the pressure through the OBD port.

As to the past of the car - I have no idea. But it had only one owner, it was a lady in her 70s, then it was not used for about 3 years. The dealer changed the oil, oil filter and sold it to me. But the car doesn't have full history, there are a few service (MOT) checks, but nothing else.

What do you think of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pEXfYd3wIM&feature=youtu.be

This is the noise when stationary.

When analysing it, I've slowed it down to 0.1x, and I could hear the individual cylinders firing - you can clearly hear that one of them is a lot louder than all the others.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIg6Iu1eFKs&feature=youtu.be

What do you think?

As to knocking:

Say that that was the case, wouldn't the big clearance on the valves make them open later and close earlier than needed - thus worsening the whole timing ?

What should you typically do in these situations? Adjust the tappets to make the clearance within the limits, or would it be fine for a little over the limit ?

I've no idea whether they're the same. All I know is that the 1.25l engine has hydraulic, 'self adjusting' tappets, and my 1.4 has the mechanical ones that need manual adjustment through replacement.

Do you think it's worth spending a few £ on the new shims? There's 8 of them for the inlet, so it'll be a costly thing to replace..

Edited by Chris Abr on 17/04/2014 at 20:53

Ford Fiesta MK6 - 2002, 1.4 petrol - Ford Fiesta - Tapping noise - tappets clearance? - Bolt

You get a fluctuation in clearance due to metal expansion/contraction which is allowed for in the given clearances

IMO the noise is tappets and sounds like one or 2 are worse than the rest,but that could be due to cam lobe wear, but you would need to inspect to see what if any wear there is,to me its no worse than some other Fiestas that I`ve come across

Unless its causing running problems I would leave it alone,it wont be the first to suffer it and wont be the last

Edited by magnit on 17/04/2014 at 22:17

Ford Fiesta MK6 - 2002, 1.4 petrol - Ford Fiesta - Tapping noise - tappets clearance? - Chris Abr

I have considered just leaving it alone, especially as I'm buying a new car soon, but I'm leaving this car to my gf, so this annoying sound should really go. Because pedestrians look behind when I'm passing them - the noise is so apparent.

They don't seem to be any running problems, but the fuel economy is pretty bad for this car (29mpg for a 1.4l ? And 35 on a motorway?!)

And if it is indeed just the case of new shims - which should be less than £60 to replace, and since I was going to do a timebelt change anyway, I think it's worth doing.

That is of course, if it is the clearance that's making this noise.

So you think it is it?

Ford Fiesta MK6 - 2002, 1.4 petrol - Ford Fiesta - Tapping noise - tappets clearance? - Bolt

I would be more concerned with cambelt change than tappets on that mileage

Ford Fiesta MK6 - 2002, 1.4 petrol - Ford Fiesta - Tapping noise - tappets clearance? - Chrissy hullock

5 years old but did you ever solve this problem?