Lexus, Toyota, GM, others - Hybrids - good to drive? how about 2nd hand

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Sat 18 Jan 2014 15:41
Lexus, Toyota, GM, others - Hybrids - good to drive? how about 2nd hand - guygamps

Hi, I was just this week in Sri Lanka being driven around in a very recent BMW 5 series with 2.0 diesel engine and stop/start technology. Even as a passenger it drove me mad, going from stationary to moving, every time hearing the diesel start up afresh. A diesel start up is hardly an enticing thing. I know the BMW in question is NOT a hybrid, but I also know that Toyota/Lexus, GM, Honda all have different approaches to their Hybrids.

I once test drove a used Lexus 400h and by memory it pulls away from stationary entirely on electic power, and the petrol kicks in when needed, this would seem to me to be a far better solution. I didn;t buy it because I don;t need something that size (though it was very nice). Due to it's size I dont think I would have got the MPG out of it either that I would expect. (50mpg would be nice).

I looked also at the CT200h, but found the interior was just lifted straight out of the Toyota parts bin (mainly the Carina used by numerous taxi fleets in some of the countries I visit on business), and I really think this is lazy, I really didn't like it...yes I know they come from the same parent company, but an Audi is far more bespoke to Audi than simply lifting VW bits. It can and it should be done for a premium brand.

I would like to find something that will seat 4, and be fun to drive, Honda CR-Z won't seat 4, and the "fun to drive" bit may be hard.

Ideally I would like something that has been around a couple of years so I can look for a 2nd hand one at dealers, but when I did look at the 400h (and before deciding it was too big for me), I also learnt that most used car warranty schemes do not cover the electric power train of a hybrid (such as batteries).

With the Prius now being around 10 years, its a good time to ask, are Hybrids a risky second hand buy?

So two questions

1 ) recommend a hybrid - not a CT-200h, smaller than an RX400, but something good to drive, and a bit exclusive. Something that has been around minimum 2 years.
2) advice on 2nd hand buys.

I would also consider a non hybrid solution, such a good diesel (e.g. Audi A4 2.0 Tdi), or a small(ish) petrol, but I currently drive Jag S Type V6 3.0, so small buzzy petrol won't float my boat, and my experience this week put me off a diesel with stop/start.

Probably asking the impossible (tin hat on)

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Sat 18 Jan 2014 16:37
Lexus, Toyota, GM, others - Hybrids - good to drive? how about 2nd hand - Auristocrat

Discounting Toyota and Lexus hybrids as you don't like the interiors, there is the Honda Insight which was introduced in 2009 - but this has been criticiized in the press (and the HJ review) for interior quality.

The Vauxhall Ampera hasn't been on the UK market for the minimum 2 years you're looking for, and again has been criticized for interior quality.

Peugeot do diesel electric hybrid versions of the 3008 and 508 - but again these haven't been on the market for your minimum two years.

So think you're back with diesel.

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Sat 18 Jan 2014 17:14
Lexus, Toyota, GM, others - Hybrids - good to drive? how about 2nd hand - guygamps

HJ is fairly scathing about how the CT200h drives as well, I think an Audi A4 diesel will likely be the way to go, a tad more scrumptious inside than a VW Golf and not as big a s Passat or Skoda Octavia. I think I will avoid the stop/start technology since anyhow I only do very short drives (3 - 5 miles) locally or quite long drives (125 - 175 miles motorway), and not much in between. On those long drives theres no benefit of the stop start really, and those short drives don't amount to much of the mileage that I do.

I did like the way the Lexus 400h drove, and I did like the 400h interior, I am not writing off all Lexus, just that I found the CT200h to be very bland insider. (I rather liked the original IS200 with it's swiss clock style instrument binnacle).

An A4 2.0 Tdi with 170bhp (possibly chipped) would be nice. if I got a loaded one a few years old with all the toys and leather.

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Sun 19 Jan 2014 12:16
Lexus, Toyota, GM, others - Hybrids - good to drive? how about 2nd hand - groaver

I think an Audi A4 diesel will likely be the way to go, a tad more scrumptious inside than a VW Golf and not as big a s Passat or Skoda Octavia. I think I will avoid the stop/start technology since anyhow I only do very short drives (3 - 5 miles) locally or quite long drives (125 - 175 miles motorway), and not much in between. On those long drives theres no benefit of the stop start really, and those short drives don't amount to much of the mileage that I do.

You better make sure you do a lot more long drives than short ones if you buy the diesel.

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Sat 18 Jan 2014 22:13
Lexus, Toyota, GM, others - Hybrids - good to drive? how about 2nd hand - Avant

At the moment (although perhaps not for very much longer) diesels hold their value better than the equivalent petrols, so you'd still need to do a sizeable mileage in a secondhand diesel to offset the extra cost with better economy.

You should have a look at a Prius - it doesn't look too bad inside and it's ideal for your short journeys as the electric motor is quite quick off the mark. Its downside is that the petrol engine coupled with CVT gets frenetic on the open road when you want some acceleration.

Otherwise I'd go along with your idea of the A4 - try a 1.8 or 2.0 petrol TSI if you can as well as the 2.0 TDI. I like Audis but I've found that my Octavia vRS is more fun to drive: Audis for me have rather lifeless steering.

For comfort and an upmarket interior, also think about a Volvo - the S60 is A4-sized but a used V40, being smaller, might be within your budget. The 5-cylinder diesel, which Volvo have for some reason just discontinued, has quite a lot of admirers. Or there's the 1.6 petrol in various stages of tune.

Finally, as long as you don't go near the unreliable diesel, the Mazda 3 and 6 petrols are worth a look.

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Sat 18 Jan 2014 22:34
Lexus, Toyota, GM, others - Hybrids - good to drive? how about 2nd hand - Auristocrat

The new Mazda 3 Hybrid uses the major components from the last generation Prius and the Toyota NIMh batteries, recalibrated for use with the 2.0 Mazda SkyActiv engine.

Edited by Auristocrat on 18/01/2014 at 22:34

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Sun 19 Jan 2014 12:05
Lexus, Toyota, GM, others - Hybrids - good to drive? how about 2nd hand - coopshere
I had a 2012 Passat 2.0tdi DSG on loan for a week and the stop start on it could be switched off, I would suspect that to be the same with most VAG models. I'm not recommending this model though as I thought it was noisy and an uncomfortable ride, was glad to hand it back.
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Sun 19 Jan 2014 14:14
Lexus, Toyota, GM, others - Hybrids - good to drive? how about 2nd hand - gordonbennet

If you can live with the small boot look at a Lexus GS450h, Porsche beating performance in almost total silence.

If the boot is a problem then maybe the replacement model, indeed all Lexus seem to be going hybrid now, but obviously the budget is going up steeply here for the latest.

We hear very little about Hybrid problems with Toyota/Lexus, usually if there are any problems then the maker involved is by far the most customer oriented one presently and has a well earned reputation.

Prius have been used extensively as taxis and seem to be lasting very well.

The horror stories about battery replacement don't appear to be founded, in practice if they were needed then they seem to be about the cost of a new clutch and DMF on an equivalent car, so if thats all the major cost that was incurred after about 8 to 10 years reliable use, leading to another similar term, i could easily live with that.

Can't say i'd be bothered with the baby Lexus hybrid either, its an ugly little brute too.

Can't say as i'd ever bother with a normal aftermarket used car warranty, but especially when owning a Toyota group car.

Edited by gordonbennet on 19/01/2014 at 14:15

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Fri 24 Jan 2014 17:29
Lexus, Toyota, GM, others - Hybrids - good to drive? how about 2nd hand - guygamps

thanks for your answers... a couple of things

Volvo V60 - I had a chance to drive one of these in D5 form a year or so back, and it was really very very good, the D5 is a peach, even a nice sound for a diesel. But by the time you loaded it with some of things I wanted, it was pricey, used ones are beginning to look good value....

Volvo V40 while I was at the dealer showroom looking at the V60, the dealers first V40 was delivered, it didnt float my boat

Mazda 3 hybrid, sounds interesting, I've seen excellent reviews on the latest 6 so Sky Active seems to do good things, but not available here yet,

GS450h, looks very interesting, might explore that, good value used now too... but I am not sure I can live with a CVT gearbox, I like a bit of rorty acceleration from time to time

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Fri 24 Jan 2014 18:00
Lexus, Toyota, GM, others - Hybrids - good to drive? how about 2nd hand - nortones2
I was passed by a 450 or similar when in my Civic type S. It flew by. Acceleration not lacking!
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Fri 24 Jan 2014 20:23
Lexus, Toyota, GM, others - Hybrids - good to drive? how about 2nd hand - gordonbennet
GS450h, looks very interesting, might explore that, good value used now too... but I am not sure I can live with a CVT gearbox, I like a bit of rorty acceleration from time to time

You'd get bored to tears in the 5.9 seconds that the 0 to 62mph dash takes, and continues up to 155mph limited, pah, Micra acceleration.

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