Kia Sportage 1.7 litre - Biodiesel blocked fuel filter - MartinKC

Having had a blocked fuel filter within 5000 miles from new and with my car now on 11000 miles, I am concerned that with colder weather, I will again experience what is apparently "clouding" of the diesel fuel and blockage of the fuel filter. Three times earlier this year the car engine suddenly stopped, the last time unfortunately when following the hea*** for my mother's funeral in April when the temperature was not excessively cold.

My local Kia service garage warns against using cheap supermarket diesel whilst Kia Sportage and sister Hyundai IX35 models now have warning door stickers against using biodiesel.

i regularly drive in France but have found no one aware of this problem there.

I have phoned Kia Uk who deny that there is any fault with their cars and especially fuel filters but there are many filter problems reported on the Kia owners forum web-site.

However three Shell service stations that I have approached were unable to give any advice on fuel content whilst I believe that the UK Government in common with other countries now specifies 5% or more bio content in fuel.

Have you any comments please on which is a potential life threatening accident issue - and should VOSA become involved?

Kia Sportage 1.7 litre - Biodiesel blocked fuel filter - skidpan

This has been well documented on the Kia site (my wife has a Ceed SW).

Yes there have been problems with a number of 1.7 CRDi Sportages (but It has not affected the 2.0 CRDi).

A vast majority of the issues (if not all) have been confined to the NE of England.

It only affects vehicles hen the temps are very low.

The number of owners not affected far outweighs those affected.

Other car brands have been affected in this area.

There were reports that some Kia dealers told owners not to use cheap supermarket fuel. Since some of the affected owners claimed they only ever used branded fuels this was clearly a red herring. Since all the fuel regardless of sales outlet comes from one of only a few distribution depots it was clearly a very poor argument and if Kia had stated in writing that "cheap supermarket" fuel was the cause they would have been sued by the retailers since all diesel must meet BS EN590.

Not 100% sure but I thought 7% max bio (B7) is allowed nowadays.

There was a rumour a while ago that the winter diesel sold this year would be a different mix to overcome these issues.

If you think VOSA should become involved contact them regarding a mass recall.

Kia Sportage 1.7 litre - Biodiesel blocked fuel filter - unthrottled

All manufacturers permit 5% biodiesel blends. The proportion just isn't enough to appreciably change the physical properties of the fuel.

Kia Sportage 1.7 litre - Biodiesel blocked fuel filter - cakerthon

Ive just suffered from this issue. LOS all faith in the Kia brand.

Kia Sportage 1.7 litre - Biodiesel blocked fuel filter - Railroad.
I once attended a Ford Transit broken down on a motorway. The engine had cut out and would not start. I towed it to the next exit and into a layby to look at it. The whole fuel system was blocked, and when I did eventually manage to draw up a sample of the fuel, which the customer described as biodiesel, I was amazed. It was more like vegetable soup, and no wonder the engine wouldn't run. On a modern car you're probably best sticking to using the fuel that is recommended by the industry and meets the right specifications.
Kia Sportage 1.7 litre - Biodiesel blocked fuel filter - Peter.N.

In nearly 50 years of running diesel vehicles I have never found any difference in the fuel wherever you buy it, probably half the country runs on supermarket fuel but you don't hear of many cars breaking down due to using it, only suspected breakdowns which usually turn out to have another cause.

I have probably driven over half a million miles in diesel vehicles and most of it has come from the supermarket (since we have had them of course).

Kia Sportage 1.7 litre - Biodiesel blocked fuel filter - Railroad.
Apart from an issue with supermarket fuel a few years ago which did cause vehicles to break down, and the problem was identified and resolved, I've also never known a petrol or diesel vehicle to stop due to using it. What I have always said is that I have known cars to lose that bit of edge when running on supermarket fuel, including my own.

I recently had a lady with a 2003 Toyota ask me if I knew any reason why her car was not achieving quite as many miles per tank as it used to, and that it didn't perform quite as well as it used to either. She said she drove once every eight weeks from Hampshire to visit her daughter in Yorkshire. She said it had been into a local independent garage a few times, and had been scanned for fault codes, and had the EGR valve, fuel filter and mass air flow sensor replaced. I told her that her garage were guessing and that it was obvious that they didn't really know what they were looking for. I also asked her where she bought her fuel from. She replied from Morrison's. I advised her to experiment by filling up a couple of times from the BP station which was less than a mile from her home. Just as I suspected she told me that the next time she drove her 200 mile journey to Yorkshire the car performed as it used to, leaving me in no doubt that branded fuel is a superior product to supermarket fuel. She also said she got about 40 miles more to a tank after using BP fuel. She also knew that the money she had spent in the garage had been a waste.
Kia Sportage 1.7 litre - Biodiesel blocked fuel filter - skidpan

But all that is subjective and the opinion of a user who may or may no be able to spot the benefits (if any actually exist). What we need are actual results that are repeatable and prove which is the best fuel.

One trip from Yorkshire to Hampshire proves nothing. For starters if she had a following wind in both directions it would make more difference than 40 miles a tank. The fact she spend good money having parts needlessly replaced proves she is a soft touch.

Which magazine have tried in the past and have never concluded branded is best.

I will continue to use Tesco fuel while ever I shop at Tesco and the prices are good. At the weekend I paid £1.129 a litre less £0.20 fuel save. That is £0.929 a litre. Car runs perfectly just like all my casr have since the mid 80's. It would have to do 57 mpg (instead of 45 mpg) to recoup the extra I would pay at the BP on the way to work (£1.169 a litre) to just break even.

Kia Sportage 1.7 litre - Biodiesel blocked fuel filter - madf

Shell VPower Nitro has zero efefct on my Yaris diesel fiuel consumption.

The problem is one of Kia's incompetence.

Kia Sportage 1.7 litre - Biodiesel blocked fuel filter - Railroad.
The BP and Esso stations where I live are both selling fuel at 114.9p per litre for unleaded, and 119.9 per litre for diesel. That's the cheapest I've seen for quite a while.

Information correct as of 10.00am on Wednesday 17 December 2014.
Kia Sportage 1.7 litre - Biodiesel blocked fuel filter - skidpan

The problem is one of Kia's incompetence.

Don't be so rediculous. The well documented issue affect many filling stations (not just supermarkets) in the north east and Scotland during a short period and strange as it may appear makes other than Kia were also affected.

During this period our Kia performed faultlessly on supermarket fuel despite all the tales of imminent destruction in various daily papers and web forums.

Kia Sportage 1.7 litre - Biodiesel blocked fuel filter - Railroad.
The lady with the Toyota took her garage's diagnosis of what was the fault with her car. She wasn't to know any different. As it turns out the garage didn't really know either, but that isn't entirely surprising of many independent garages, who don't know as much as they think they do.

I used to have a Skoda Octavia 1.9 TDi (ASV) engine. My ex-wife would fill it up from Morrison's when she went shopping. Over a period of time I began to notice that it didn't have the same oomph that it used to have. I have VCDS and I drove it for miles taking live data readings of both what the ECM was expecting and the actual readings for mass air flow, turbo boost and EGR duty cycle. Nothing unusual showed up. I told my wife to stop filling up at Morrison's and use the Texaco station just down the road. She did, and within a couple of hundred miles that little bit of performance that had been lost had returned. The car definitely pulled better and was more responsive.

Perhaps different engines behave differently, but mine definitely ran better on branded fuel.
Kia Sportage 1.7 litre - Biodiesel blocked fuel filter - skidpan

So the diagnostics showed nothing was wrong but since your seat of the pants dynamometer thought it felt better with branded fuel its a conclusive result.

What you need is a blind test driving the same car using different fuels. The result would be very interesting.

Kia Sportage 1.7 litre - Biodiesel blocked fuel filter - Railroad.
On the contrary. It's what led me to decide the loss of performance could be due to the fuel itself. The lines on the graph that represent mass air flow and turbo boost pressure followed the expected values pretty well. They never follow exactly, but a sizable difference would indicate a problem. VCDS cannot measure engine brake horse power, (wouldn't it be good if it could)? So I pondered over the possibility that the calorific value of the fuel itself, or the way different fuels may combust may produce varying results. We all know that octane is a fuel's resistance to flame, and use of higher octane petrol means that an engine can run with the ignition timing more advanced with less of a risk of pre-ignition. I wondered if something similar could happen in a diesel engine with different additives in fuels.

My old Astra 1.7 DTL used to have an annoying problem of surging which despite my efforts I could never cure. This problem is well known on this engine, and I've since been advised by my local Bosch specialist that they've cured it by replacing the pump governor springs with a modified type. Before I knew that I changed injector pipes, altered the fuel pump settings and timing, blanked the EGR system, cleaned the inlet manifold and God only knows what else, and I could never cure it, but a shot of Millers at each fill up definitely improved it.
Kia Sportage 1.7 litre - Biodiesel blocked fuel filter - injection doc

Clogging Diesel filters very common now, partly due to the high filter content. Puegeot/Citreon recently suffered with filters clogging in as little as 1800 miles on their 1.6 psa range of engines and changed the spec from 60 microns to 40 microns !

I wont use supermarket diesel and yes there is a difference ( I dont care what any one says about what it conforms too ) & when my wife used to fill hers up with supermarket fuel the MPG dropped everytime and so did the performance.

The quality of the addatives in the non supermarket fuels are superior andf modern engines requires these to keep running at their best.

Just found this on a Kia forum with the response from Kia. Basically sums up what i thought !

We’re sorry to hear that you’ve experienced fuel filter problems with your Sportages.

Our investigation into this is on-going, so far we have yet to find a fault on any our products and we have found the concern is isolated to two geographical areas.

We are not, and have not, stated that supermarket fuel is to blame for this problem. However the better the quality fuels are less susceptible to ‘waxing’ in very low temperatures.

Please be assured that we will continue to work on a long term solution for this concern and will update customers once it is available.

Thanks again for posting.

Kia Customer Service

0845 6017521

Visit www.kia.co.uk

Join In www.facebook.com/kiamotorsuk

Enjoy www.youtube.com/kiamotorsuk

Edited by injection doc on 17/12/2014 at 20:27

Kia Sportage 1.7 litre - Biodiesel blocked fuel filter - Railroad.
Even lower than that. Modern ultra low sulphur diesel is now less than 15 microns. I totally agree with every word you said about supermarket fuel. My experience is the same and that's why I don't use it in my own car or my work van. People who do use it do so for one reason only. It's cheaper and they think they're getting a bargain. But as we all know, what may appear to be cheaper initially very often isn't cheaper in the longer term.
Kia Sportage 1.7 litre - Biodiesel blocked fuel filter - skidpan

Just found this on a Kia forum with the response from Kia. Basically sums up what i thought !

That is quite an old response from Kia. Kia backed down from blaming "low quality fuel" when owners asked Kia to confirm in writing that the fuel was at fault so that they could take action against the retailers.

When this was happening owners using Shell and other so called "quality" fuels were also having problems in the small geographic area affected.

I will continue to use supermarkety fuels since like all sensible people I fully understand that the only difference is the snake oil additives that may or may not work.

Kia Sportage 1.7 litre - Biodiesel blocked fuel filter - Gibbo_Wirral

I will continue to use supermarkety fuels since like all sensible people I fully understand that the only difference is the snake oil additives that may or may not work.

Good for you, so don't critcise other people's choices of fuel or additives unless you have any concrete evidence to prove it. Its not your money they're spending.

Is it worth posting the 5th Gear Redex dyno tests video? With you and your opinion I doubt it.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=03nL8Z0dRkI

Kia Sportage 1.7 litre - Biodiesel blocked fuel filter - skidpan

Good for you, so don't critcise other people's choices of fuel or additives unless you have any concrete evidence to prove it. Its not your money they're spending.

Simply pointing out the facts and giving people an opposite truthful view to that expressed by people who claim that supermarket fules are rubbish.

Is it worth posting the 5th Gear Redex dyno tests video? With you and your opinion I doubt it

If the fuel test was as well devised as the tyre test I saw on 5th gear recently it will not be worth watching. For those who did not see it they tested 3 types of tyre, the OEM Conti eco tyres, brand new budget and used with 3mm tread. The Conti's and 2nd hand were obviously well scrubbed giving them an instant advantage so not a fair test for starters. Then they tested them for wet braking, the Conti's were poor as expected and finished last but the brand new unscrubbed budget finished only 2nd probably because they still had the release compound on the surface. If they had been driven for a few hundred miles I suspect the result would have been different.

Kia Sportage 1.7 litre - Biodiesel blocked fuel filter - Railroad.
I had a pair of Kleber tyres on the front of a 1982 Vauxhall Cavalier I once owned. They never wore out. Trouble was I couldn't go around roundabouts in the wet either so I eventually changed them for Michelins.
Kia Sportage 1.7 litre - Biodiesel blocked fuel filter - skidpan
I had a pair of Kleber tyres on the front of a 1982 Vauxhall Cavalier I once owned. They never wore out. Trouble was I couldn't go around roundabouts in the wet either so I eventually changed them for Michelins.

We have Kleber Quadraxers on 3 of our cars, superb tyres. Made by Michelin. Avant uses them as well.

If you could not get around roundabouts in the wet there was one simple problem, you were going way to fast.

Kia Sportage 1.7 litre - Biodiesel blocked fuel filter - Railroad.
Oh god, someone please shoot me.
Kia Sportage 1.7 litre - Biodiesel blocked fuel filter - madf
Oh god, someone please shoot me.

post your sddress and when you are there... ...

Kia Sportage 1.7 litre - Biodiesel blocked fuel filter - Railroad.
Buckingham Palace, London SW1. If I'm not in I'll be walking the corgis.
Kia Sportage 1.7 litre - Biodiesel blocked fuel filter - madf
Buckingham Palace, London SW1. If I'm not in I'll be walking the corgis.

Yes Your Majesty..

Kia Sportage 1.7 litre - Biodiesel blocked fuel filter - mark999
I worked in the additives industry a few years ago. We ran a fleet of field test vehicles to demonstrate the effectiveness of our formulations. A good additive package makes a significant difference to keeping inlet valves and injectors clean. Not all additives are the same, the better ones have a more effective (heat stable) detergent.
Premium fuels have these at a clean up dose rather than keep clean.
Mark
Kia Sportage 1.7 litre - Biodiesel blocked fuel filter - alastairq

I fill up at Asda [diseasel]...now, whenever the opportunity arrises. Largely due to Asda's overall pricing policy [I don't 'shop' there]..

I achieve consistently, the same fuel consumption as obtained if I happen to fill with Shell, BeePee, Jet, etc.

Even obtained a consistent fuel consumption having inadvertently added 20-odd litres of U/L petrol!

It never fails to start, has never yet ceased functioning unintentionally, performs on the road surprisingly well for its shape, or regardless of what I appear to shove in the tank..[including a litre of white spirit a helpful friend had poured into a spare fuel can]...and will probably top up with the sundry, unwanted Christmas sprirts folk insist on thinking I need.

[More useful than pouring it down the sink?}

I change the filter annually, whether it needs it or not....and the tyres seem to be everlasting, since I am too tight of wallet to want to change them while there's still some life left. I don't concern myself about roadholding [or, lack of]..for that is subjective....what I can drive quickly & safely, others may well crash 'n burn...it's about what one is used to.

The car? An ancient [20 years old] Dai-hatsu Fourtrak...with the no-nonsense, no-gizmos 2.8 ltr. 4-pot turbo diesel engine...exactly what a proper small diesel should be.

No wiring, no silly sensors, no plugs and sockets, no fanciful ECUs, and probably poisons my grandkids every morning....

I would add, it's been driven from one end of the country to the other many times...sometimes towing trailers.....and it has a giant-killingly enormous 3.5 tonne weight towing ability...according to the factory. Given the sheer enormousness of the brakes, that cannot be denied.

b***** awful headlights, however...so maybe keeping the Forth Bridge bull bars on the front might be a good idea? :)

Edited by alastairq on 21/12/2014 at 18:12

 

Value my car