ford focus 1.6 5d 02 plate 68k miles - bristol Dealership and Warranty problem

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Tue 23 Jul 2013 23:21
ford focus 1.6 5d 02 plate 68k miles - bristol Dealership and Warranty problem - jaruler

Hi All

In may i bought a 12 year old focus. great condition and 68k miles on the clock from GMT cars in bristol. However straight away it has developed a weird fault. The dealership say they wont fix it because they don't know what the fault is and pawn me off with its 10 years old and its ok i should expect it!

The problem is that it losses power/acceleration when when you just set off or changing gear. In the morning the car is fine until 30 minutes use. But if i leave it in the sun the problem starts right from get go or within 5 minutes. In the morning you see it is in complete shade. that is the only difference. I cannot see how temperature would effect the driving of the car so must be just a coincidence. However when i have this loss in power on a hill it is a nightmare and almost had two accidents as i cannot pull away properly.

The dealership tried to cover up the dip and flat spot when they drove it by keeping the reves at 4-5k! As if i am a fool and will just accept this as normal driving. i made them drive up hill from still and they also experienced the problem but again tried to play it down. I have already lost faith that they will even want to do the right thing and fix it after already seeing them try and con me by trying to mask the possible flat spot by over reving it.

I have a 3 month warranty and it ends next month ion 25th. it says that the dealership needs to fix any problems with the car and the warranty is as if the car was new and i am governed by the same standards as any other when purchasing goods and if faulty request it be fixed. I have done this but they want me to go and pay a garage to find out what the problem is when i cannot afford it. can anyone please provide help in 2 areas,

1, what the problem could be so i can ask them to look into and fix as they say they need to know what to fix and without knowing what to fix they wont touch it.

Some say it can be the cat converter?

2 help with what legal ground i stand on in making sure the fix the problem? Many thanks to you all

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Tue 23 Jul 2013 23:58
ford focus 1.6 5d 02 plate 68k miles - bristol Dealership and Warranty problem - tony g
Hi,reference the fault with your car ,I wonder if its caused by fuel evaporation or the fuel and air mix is to lean .Perhaps while the car is running rich on the auto choke its not a problem .It used to be common on cars a few years ago ,perhaps that's the problem .

With regard to your right as a car buyer ,the car is clearly faulty ,the dealer has tried to fix it and failed .

Therefore your entitled to reject the car and recover your money ,possibly through the small claims court .

Your difficulty will be what to do if the dealer refuses to return your money ,it will cost you £300 in fees in the SCC to begin your claim . You will recover the fee and the money you paid for the car when you win your case .

However if the dealer has no money or goods to seize ,you won't get paid .

You need to think carefully before you act ,it could be that your throwing good money after bad .

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Wed 24 Jul 2013 01:08
ford focus 1.6 5d 02 plate 68k miles - bristol Dealership and Warranty problem - jaruler

Hi I cant say if the dealer has tried prior to fix the problem as i dont know if it was a problem before or if known.

when i bought the car it seemed ok and only started doing this anout a month back. it gets worse in hot weather.

It is a main dealership and they have around 30 cars at any one time, been around they said for 20 years on a main road. I find ity funny though they put it through a mot and it passewd with no advisorys which is unheard off in all my driving years! so my mind is also asking questions to itself about how much can i trust that.

There is a small hole in the box part of the exhust but smaller than 5 pence peice correoded with rust. the car does get slightly louder when having this problem.

when you auto choke, what is that? even though i like to get in the engine and have dabbled a bit i wont call myself anywhere near a mechanic level.

thanks

Also regarding tires, the front ones on this car keep going down from 34 to 25 after just 3 days use or 30 miles. woudl that be classed as faulty and unsafe to have been sold with a new MOT with no advisory?

Thanks

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Wed 24 Jul 2013 07:37
ford focus 1.6 5d 02 plate 68k miles - bristol Dealership and Warranty problem - Armitage Shanks {p}

Re your tyre problem I had something similar, casued by a porous alloy but to have two at the same time would be odd. wouldn't be an MOT fail as a slow puncture would not be detected in the course of an MOT

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Wed 24 Jul 2013 11:46
ford focus 1.6 5d 02 plate 68k miles - bristol Dealership and Warranty problem - tony g
Well ,some good news ,you bought your car from a main dealer ,so your likely to get paid if you win your case .

It's not that unusual for a car to pass an mot without advisories ,about one in three of the cars I sell are the same .

Auto choke allows a car to start when the engine is cold , by increasing the amount of petrol in the fuel and air mix .When the engine warms up ,the auto choke gradually turns off ,reducing the amount of petrol being delivered into the engine .petrol cars need the correct petrol and air mix to run efficiently .
I don't think it's something that you could alter yourself , it's possible that it can't be altered at all .You need to have it checked by a competent mechanic .
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Wed 24 Jul 2013 11:53
ford focus 1.6 5d 02 plate 68k miles - bristol Dealership and Warranty problem - thunderbird

Auto chokes died when the carburettor died. Cold enrichement on all modern electronically managed engines is done via one of the many maps in the ECU and is certainly not user or dealer adustable (unless the dealer has an update he can download).

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Wed 24 Jul 2013 11:57
ford focus 1.6 5d 02 plate 68k miles - bristol Dealership and Warranty problem - Andrew-T

I find it unusual that a 'main dealer' is selling a 12-year-old car - places like that don't put such things on their forecourt, so I assume you bought it from 'round the back'? It would be interesting to know how much you paid. It can't (shouldn't) have been much over a grand or a bit more. That is because (a) most buyers want something more trendy, and (b) you can expect to spend what you save keeping the car running. If it was much more, the car should be a bit special and certainly fit for purpose.

Follow Tony G and Shanks' advice and call on your 3-month warranty as long as poss. If that fails, bite the bullet and take the car to a place which knows how to fix engines rather than just sell cars.

The tyres - sounds like leaks due to surface corrosion round the bead, assuming the wheels are alloys. Any tyre place will clean them up for little money.

Edited by Andrew-T on 24/07/2013 at 12:02

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Wed 24 Jul 2013 12:11
ford focus 1.6 5d 02 plate 68k miles - bristol Dealership and Warranty problem - bathtub tom

It's an old car with a holed exhaust and (probably) punctured front tyres!

1. With tyres deflating that quickly I'd be looking for something puncturing them. Have you had a look? It's possibly dangerous. If you're not capable then take it to someone who is.

2. Have you had the codes read? It may help in diagnosing the problem.

3. A holed exhaust can affect the Lambda sensor, causing a wrong mixture. Having the codes read may detect this, but it seems like it's going to need a new exhaust anyway.

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Wed 24 Jul 2013 19:23
ford focus 1.6 5d 02 plate 68k miles - bristol Dealership and Warranty problem - jaruler

Hi all

Sorry it is not from a ford dealer, i meant dealership that has been around 20 years called GMT cars in bristol winterstoke rd. has around 30 cars on average on sell. the car cost me £1900.00 with 69k miles. spotless inside and good onthe outside but of course they used a heck of a lot of polish just that morning i seen it and it coverered up a few scratches etc.

The tyres are alloy yes, there does not seem to be a puncture that i can see. I am broke as i just spent everything on this car so i could continue to see my sons each weekend and thought thet finally geting a decent car would make me hassle free for once and wont stop me seeing my boys. Its imparitve i have a motor if not for that. i said to them i need one that i can rely on at the point of sale that wont break down.

the mornings the car is brilliant from cold. Its just sluggish and difficult when hot and either been left out in sun all day or been driving for 30 min. The tyre problem has always been there since i bought it so they must have been aware of that. the passenger wingmirror is superglued on and wont fold in. They didnt tell me that!

any thoughts on the problem being the catalititic convertor?

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Wed 24 Jul 2013 23:51
ford focus 1.6 5d 02 plate 68k miles - bristol Dealership and Warranty problem - galileo

As advised, pursue the 'warranty' route, a quick look at Autotrader shows lots of Focuses of this age and mileage for a lot less than £1900, for that price it shouldn't have self-deflating front tyres (not safe at all).

At the very least they ought to fix that problem for you, fixing the engine fault may not be simple or quick.

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Thu 25 Jul 2013 00:07
ford focus 1.6 5d 02 plate 68k miles - bristol Dealership and Warranty problem - tony g
Hi,
It's interesting that you consider a 12 year old car as a decent car ,its just not a realistic viewpoint ,I've just bought a 13 year old focus in good running condition for £150 ! I'll tidy it up and sell it for £600 .You paid to much .

The deflating tyres and the wing mirrors would be acceptable faults on a much newer car than the one you've bought ,to remove the tyres and reseal the rims would cost about £5 a wheel to sort out , it would be a simple fix ,you're better just to pay and have it sorted .

It seems almost certain to be a weak fuel mix that's causing your problem ,have it diagnosed by a competent garage that has the correct equipment to analyse the cause of the problem . Then try and recover your outlay from the selling dealer .
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Thu 25 Jul 2013 21:41
ford focus 1.6 5d 02 plate 68k miles - bristol Dealership and Warranty problem - jaruler

well its good for those i suppose that have the measn and place to do that, i envy you,. i love getting inside the engine and finding out things. fixing it and feeling proud of myself. I am no mechanic though but i have managed to take off injectors and replace them after cleaning on a mondeo tdci and tale off manifold,. egr, fuel pump, exhust recycling system to find a problem and in the end i just put a blocking plate on teh egr valve and it sorted it. but that was another car and different problem.

For me the car looks good and i have to say it is well looked after with only 68 k miles. I am not very good with the ins and outs on fuel ratio and mixtures. would this be a sensor thing or a machinical issue? I have it going in to brunel ford on wed as a friend works there and will have a look at it. I wont dare pay anything on the car to get done if they dont fix it i will demand my money back and buy a cheaper car as i could do with the money now actually as moving home.

any further ideas guys? wheni open the fueling cap to put petrol in it seems to be doing a large intake of air liek a vacumn sucking air throigh the petrol intake. is that normal, not heard this before on any other car i had.

so far we have possible fuel mixture problem, or air leak, somene also said its "pointed to the accelrator pot" dont know what that means though. The potentiometer was a nother possible reason and a catalitic convertor?

Thanks again

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Thu 25 Jul 2013 23:27
ford focus 1.6 5d 02 plate 68k miles - bristol Dealership and Warranty problem - tony g
(any further ideas guys? wheni open the fueling cap to put petrol in it seems to be doing a large intake of air liek a vacumn sucking air throigh the petrol intake. is that normal, not heard this before on any other car i had.)

Could the running problem be something as simple as the wrong fuel filler cap ,it sounds from your description that's there's a vacuum being created in the fuel tank ,perhaps that's restricting the flow of fuel to the engine ,it could be worth trying a vented fuel cap .
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Fri 26 Jul 2013 11:16
ford focus 1.6 5d 02 plate 68k miles - bristol Dealership and Warranty problem - Andrew-T
It could be worth trying a vented fuel cap .

... or even checking whether the present cap's vent is blocked ....

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Fri 26 Jul 2013 21:53
ford focus 1.6 5d 02 plate 68k miles - bristol Dealership and Warranty problem - bathtub tom

Fuel caps are no longer vented directly to the atmosphere and it's quite normal to hear a hiss as it's opened. However the fuel tank still needs venting.

A simple way to check if that's the problem would be to remove the filler cap when the problem presents itself and see if that cures it, althought you shouldn't drive far with it removed to avoid spillage.

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Sat 27 Jul 2013 00:13
ford focus 1.6 5d 02 plate 68k miles - bristol Dealership and Warranty problem - Andrew-T

A simple way to check if that's the problem would be to remove the filler cap when the problem presents itself and see if that cures it, although you shouldn't drive far with it removed to avoid spillage.

If that is the cause of the problem, all you would need to do is release the cap to equalise pressure, then replace it. No chance of spillage.

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Sat 27 Jul 2013 11:16
ford focus 1.6 5d 02 plate 68k miles - bristol Dealership and Warranty problem - jaruler

Hi if this is not the problem as not tried it yet could it be a cat converter problem? or any other thoughts? as i intend to share this with dealers to give them a clue where to look.

thanks

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Sat 27 Jul 2013 23:50
ford focus 1.6 5d 02 plate 68k miles - bristol Dealership and Warranty problem - Avant

Try the filler cap first before you spend a lot of money with a dealer.

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Mon 29 Jul 2013 20:23
ford focus 1.6 5d 02 plate 68k miles - bristol Dealership and Warranty problem - jaruler

tried realising the cap and then putting it back on after pressure equalised and no difference really. will try again however as it was only half as bad today than normal.

any other thoughts?? This week has been notiable better from saturday as we have had cooler days and rain. SO AS MAD AS IT SOUNDS somehow temperture somehow has an effect.

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Thu 1 Aug 2013 00:23
ford focus 1.6 5d 02 plate 68k miles - bristol Dealership and Warranty problem - legacy95
If ford use a similar system to Vag group cars I would suspect a faulty MAF sensor. When cold a default air fuel mixture is used until a certain temperature is reached, after that the Various sensors which control the mixture are taken into account.
The vacuum in the fuel tank could be caused by the emission control system which sucks fuel vapour from the tank into a charcoal filter for storage until it can be burnt by the engine at an appropriate time. If the the control valve which controls the process fails an inrush of air can appear at the fuel tank filler cap.
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