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Any car's ride quality is determined far more by the suspension characteristics and standard tyre size than any minor subjective differences in tyre brands - surely ?
I choose tyres on the basis of grip - I include ride comfort when choosing cars though.
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Any car's ride quality is determined far more by the suspension characteristics and standard tyre size than any minor subjective differences in tyre brands - surely ?
I choose tyres on the basis of grip - I include ride comfort when choosing cars though.
I suspect as some cars are designed and set up to ride in a sporting manner (I doubt if Jamie's S-Type is - its likely to be geared more towards comfort than a beemer), that choice of tyres makes more difference than those that aren't. I found that on my Mazda3, going from the hard-wearing but noisy (and not good in the wet) Bridgestone ER30s (original factory-fit) to Dunlop SP Sport FastResponse made the ride a lot more comfortable, much less noisy and fine for grip, for a reasonable price (there were better ones all-round, but 25-30% more expensive).
Of course, some people prefer a firmer or softer ride anyway, so its all very subjective. Given that most Japanese cars (almost exclusively what I buy from) have reasonably firm suspension, my choice of tyres (replacements at least) becomes all the more important.
Edited by Engineer Andy on 28/04/2013 at 22:06
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I suspect as some cars are designed and set up to ride in a sporting manner ... that choice of tyres makes more difference than those that aren't. I just don't see the point in buying a car with "sporting manner" which inevitably means sacrificing ride quality but then trying to rectify that shortcoming.
I quite understand those who buy a car with "sporting manner" - I just don't understand those that buy cars with a characteristic and then try to change it.
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Interesting, since Micheldever Tyres have always been cheap enough to very nearly match the cheapest online prices, including for the last set of Primacy HPs that I bought. Add their excellent service into the equation, and for me it's a no-brainer to go there.
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I had the size 205 55 16 on a Passat and Uniroyal Rainsport 2 were the most comfortable I had compared to Goodyear Eagle F1 and Michelin Pilot something or other I had before.
On my A8, 235 55 17 I have NEXEN N8000, a Korean tyre which did well in German reviews and is very comfortable but wears quickly. I really like them, the price is low, and grip is excellent, and they are of a soft compound.
www.camskill.co.uk/m62b0s291p60262/Nexen_Tyres_Car..._
www.tyres-pneus-online.co.uk/car-tyres-NEXEN/N8000...l
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A quick google reveals that Nexen are a joint venture between Michelin(!) and Woosung tyres of Korea (although I suspect that actually what's going on is that Michelin snapped up Woosung when the entire Daewoo chaebol went spectacularly bust).
By sheer coincidence, the best tyres I ever had for handling and grip on my old MGB were a set of Woosung's...... Better than the Dunlops, Goodyears and Michelins I'd had over time and considerably cheaper too. While they did wear quite quickly, the cost saving more than offset the shorter life.
Unfortunately, when I went to look for a second set, Daewoo had gone to the wall and they were not available any more.
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The joint venture with Michelin only lasted 4 years and ENDED over 20 years ago when Nexen started a joint venture with Otsu under the Woosung brand www.nexentire.com/international/about/about_1_3.asp Otsu's main brand was Falken, now part of Sumitomo, along with Dunlop.
Other than as a supplier of tyres, there seems to be no connection with Daewoo.
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The poster never said there was a connection with Daewoo.
(Needlessly offensive remark deleted)
Edited by Avant on 29/04/2013 at 22:39
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The poster never said there was a connection with Daewoo.
The poster mentioned Daewoo, not me, but they don't enter the story - Nexen's joint venture with Michelin was from '87 to '91, almost a decade before Daewoo's problems.
Edited by Avant on 29/04/2013 at 22:39
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I find it hard to believe any amateur driver can tell the differences from one tyre to another - at least to the extent that 'shrugs' does. I agree with the poster who feels wheel size and tyre size must be 95% of the variable factors in tyre choice - which probably form only 50%, if you include the car's suspension set up etc.
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I find it hard to believe any amateur driver can tell the differences from one tyre to another - at least to the extent that 'shrugs' does. I agree with the poster who feels wheel size and tyre size must be 95% of the variable factors in tyre choice - which probably form only 50%, if you include the car's suspension set up etc.
Come on, please credit me with some intelligence! My BMW is not a sports car, nor would I ever want anything with sporting pretensions - it is a good handling car that perfectly well shows up differences between tyre types, whether it's my winter Michelins or the new EcoContact 5 tyres. I posted the comments about EcoContact 5 tyres because I thought that there may be other car owners out there who are (like me) increasingly irritated by hard riding, sharp steering cars that seem to have been set up for notional boy-racers or Autocar testers. I favour comfort and a quiet ride above all else, provided that the tyres do have grip and are of good quality. The EcoContact 5 tyres deliver on both those criteria, at the expense of sharp steering and scythe-like handling. This is a reasonable compromise in my book, but may not suit others.
There are differences between tyres, sometimes extreme. Some years ago I bought a new Seat Arosa TDi which came on quite fat little Firestone tyres, but these tyres had laughably low grip, even on dry roads when it was possible to lock up the wheels (no ABS on that car) when stopping for pedestrian crossings etc, at speeds well below 30mph. I changed them pretty swiftly for equivalent size Continentals and the car was transformed, with normal levels of grip. I would never even consider a Firestone tyre after that experience. My brother has a Mini Clubman Cooper D which has a rock-hard ride on its standard fit run-flats (Continentals in his case) - he replaced the worn fronts with Avons that are far more comfortable, although still pretty uncomfortable by my standards.
Perhaps I'm alone in despairing of new cars with hard ride? My BMW was chosen not because I wanted a sports car, but because (at the time) it was clearly the best small estate car with an automatic 'box. The broadly equivalent Audi A3 Sportback that I tested was beautifully crafted but blighted by a 'Sports' badge and suspension that could have come off a steamroller. Careful tyre choice can make a car more comfortable, and online reviews can help to identify the best choice. My choice of EcoContact 5 tyres was made on the basis of these reviews www.tyretest.com/summercar_tyres/continental/eco_c...l
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but these tyres had laughably low grip, even on dry roads when it was possible to lock up the wheels
Most of the objective tyre comparisons I've seen showed little measurable difference between brands on dry tarmac, even spanning the range of premium to budget. Much bigger differences were observed in wet or icy conditions.
When you change tyres you're virtually always swapping old tyres for new ones and usually having the tracking re-aligned at the same time. Even the most indifferent driver will feel a subjectve difference-but the comparison is new vs worn, rather than brand X Vs brand Y.
As far as tyre reviews go, I only take notice of perceived noise and longevity, because these variables can be easily (albeit qualitatively) measured. As far as 'grip' goes, seat of-the-pants analysis is worthless. Does a bootful of throttle cause the tyre to let go or not? Nothing more.
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Perhaps I'm alone in despairing of new cars with hard ride?
Believe me, you are not. I'm having trouble choosing the right one myself, I really don't know why they are doing that, it's really horrible.
Edited by Piowolf on 02/05/2013 at 15:50
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For me it's as obvious as different footwear.
I find it hard to believe any amateur driver can tell the differences from one tyre to another - at least to the extent that 'shrugs' does.
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Other than as a supplier of tyres, there seems to be no connection with Daewoo.
Well Woosung used to be part of the Daewoo empire. The logo on Woosung tyres was the same as the one on everything else made by Deawoo (including the car badges) and the small print on the sidewalls had "Daewoo" in it.
I thought that those two were a bit of a giveaway at the time.
You have to remember that Daewoo did everything from shipbuilding to toys, via cars, electronics and construction. It was broken up and the various bits flogged off when the wheels came off.
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I have Michelin primacy on a E46 and they are fantastic and I did not get them at MT they are far to expensive..
We thought you lived in Germany ? so why would you use Micheldever tyres ?
I've only been reading this forum a few weeks and you have to be the most annoying contributor.
How come you need to latch on to each and every thread with some negative remark, If you have nothing positive or interesting to contribute to the discussion, why bother ?
Anyone else agree ?
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No I do not agree, I like Collos' posts.
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As a moderator I certainly agree with you, Alf.
The worst of it is that when he is rude to new posters they can be put off from ever coming back to us. The rest of us welcome new members on here; sometimes their problem is self-inflicted and the correct answer to them isn't what they want to hear. But it's perfectly possible to tell it straight without being rude or patronising.
This particular thread is a good example of a discussion where everyone is entitled to their opinion whivh will be based on their own experiences. I'm keeping the Kleber Quadraxer all-weather tyres on all year from now on my Octavia vRS estate, as (apart from being much better in snow) they give a better ride than the original Continentals with negligible difference in handling.
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Mum help I'm in a room full of rude old men!
Tyres are a personal thing, someone younger might feel that tyre noise and harsh suspension was just the job. I remember having top of the range Michelin Pilots once for a mercifully short time before they wore out, gawd were they noisy. I suppose on a car with soft suspension they may have been bearable, but that would have defeated the point.
I suppose they did handle but my motorway journey just made them a waste. I think it's more a consumer thing like a tight shirt and a brand of lager, more bragging to your mates for 30 year old professionals with more money than sense, than anything.
After a fast journey you'd climb out to a smell of burning rubber. What woman could resist that?
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Nothing to add but want to give support to Moderator and others with their comments about making sure posts are polite. The purpose, I think, of a forum is for people to share knowledge/experience and help each other : not rude point scoring which has no place here or anywhere. Unpleasantness detracts from a point of view as well as being both unnecessary and undesirable.
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I ditched the run flats on my 535d and because I was getting a set of 4, budget mean a set of Kumho KU39s went on. The ride is a great improvement over the Dunlop SP1 RFTs but that's not saying much. Grip is also better but still not great, so I intend to go for the Conti Sport 5s.
Going off track a little, the Mrs's Santa Fe came with Kumho so I stuck with them. Needed 2 new ones so got some Genreal Grabber UHPs on the front and it has transfored the car, even before the tyres have scrubbed in. Wheel spin seems to have all but disappeared. Comfort levels - can't say I notice much difference.
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I'm keeping the Kleber Quadraxer all-weather tyres on all year from now on my Octavia vRS estate, as (apart from being much better in snow) they give a better ride than the original Continentals with negligible difference in handling.
I reckon those are a very fine tyre. I ran a set on a Zafira and in my opinion, the handling on those was actually better then on the Michelins which preceeded them. The Zafira normally suffers from pig-awful understeer and the grippier tyres seemed to significantly alleviate this. Less road noise too(!)
Downside is that they really need to be swapped at 3mm of tread, if that happens around winter time, to preserve the snow capability and the softer compounds used wear a bit more quickly. The advantage of seperate winters is that the summers can be run down to the limit and only the winters have to be changed at 3mm, getting a shade more life out of each full set of eight.
Now, whether the cost of swapping twice a year is greater or less than the cost of slightly shorter life is an interesting question. My guess would be that if you have two sets of wheels and swap/store them yourself, seperates win. If, on the other hand, you pay for swap/storage or swapping on one set of wheels, the all-seasons probably have it.
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I agree totally.
We put a set on our Nissan Note (1.4) which is used for tootlin' and commutin' and I've been well impressed; we're keeping them on all year, but then again it only does ~4k a year so it's worth it. However, we regularly get snowed in on our track with even relatively shallow snow fall and drifts (it's more the freezing temperatures which cause the issue). This winter I was able to crawl out no problem, leaving most other non 4x4 cars stuck behind.
And they're dirt cheap.
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I found it worthwhile to buy a set of 16" steel wheels (the standard alloys on mine are 18"). In my experience tyre shops will change wheels free of charge but changing tyres on wheels can cost £15-£20 a wheel.
If I were younger I would change the wheels myself, but certainly wouldn't change a tyre on a wheel.
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Perhaps I'm alone in despairing of new cars with hard ride?
Believe me, you are not. I'm having trouble choosing the right one for myself, I really don't know why they are doing that, it's really horrible.
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I'm also fed up of the fixation for "fashionable" (and expensive) low profile tyres. Mainly for the reason of the ride and the cost of replacement.
I've just sourced some new Renault 16" wheels in readiness to replace the 18" wheels and tyres on my Laguna coupe.
This has a firm suspension anyway, but the low profile tyres do no absorb the road imperfections. This causes the interior to rattle and bang a lot, as well as being a bit of a pain. My hope is that it will help turn the car into a more comfortable "cruiser" as opposed to full on "sporty" set up - which is what perhaps one would have expected of a nice French car in the past - more in the way of comfort.
I've not had a chance to get tyres yet but hope to in the near future.
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