Bad news for anyone waiting for hydrogen fuel cell vehicles to hit our streets in the near future. Stellantis has decided to cancel its HFC development programme, citing high costs and negligible fuelling infrastructure. The same lack of infrastructure that has caused BMW to announce that they won’t be bringing their HFC car to the UK when it launches in 2028. Renault’s joint venture into HFC vans went into liquidation earlier this year due to, again, crippling development costs and lack of infrastructure.

The Laws of Physics win again.

Currently offered discounts on e-Meganes are larger than that. £12.5k reductions on pre-reg... Government interventions are clueless.

One for you MCB..

went around to the Renault dealer this morning with a friend and yes The R5 E looks pretty tidy.

And it looks much better in the metal than it does in photos.

Yes it does. And the Bigster in the car park still with the protective stuff all around looked quite good too.

‘ Why so much? ours is getting replaced in a fortnight for £500, obviously thats not including a battery car charge point, but unless we buy a plug in hybrid there's no need for one.’ No need for a dedicated home charger for a plug-in hybrid. They’re designed for use with a three pin plug, their charging rate doesn’t usually come near the output of a home charger. They just need a decent quality socket and don’t use cheap extension leads - it’d be pulling 2kW for a few hours.

Handy to know, thankyou.

‘ Why so much? ours is getting replaced in a fortnight for £500, obviously thats not including a battery car charge point, but unless we buy a plug in hybrid there's no need for one.’ No need for a dedicated home charger for a plug-in hybrid. They’re designed for use with a three pin plug, their charging rate doesn’t usually come near the output of a home charger. They just need a decent quality socket and don’t use cheap extension leads - it’d be pulling 2kW for a few hours.

I do't have a charger for my BMW i3 .. just use 13amp plug..Upgraded socket to cope.. 60Amp fuse in Control unit is fine. Charge overnight with zero issues including winter..

‘ I don't think it is very difficult. Most drivers adapt to an auto and an EV within about 10 minutes. What they don't then want to do is go back to a manual and increasingly often they don't want to go back to a ICE either.’ Same here. I’ve test driven so many people new to automatic, and it’s a matter of minutes. Don’t remove your left hand from the wheel and your left foot won’t go looking for a clutch that isn’t there.

Despite being an ancient pensioner, I drive an automatic, other half's car is a manual, hire cars (used for 2-3 month a year in Spain) are frequently manual.

It takes about 10 minutes to fully adapt. Only real source of error - forgetting to change gear, up or down, when required - easily spotted through high revs/noise, or juddering - and easily solved.

Personally having driven autos for the last 8 years I would not contemplate going back to manual for the main car.

<< It takes about 10 minutes to fully adapt. Only real source of error - forgetting to change gear, up or down, when required - easily spotted through high revs/noise, or juddering - and easily solved. >>

I've only rarely driven an auto - a holiday hire car, naturally - but the only difficulty has been having to stop at short notice, when both feet on the Stop pedal shakes up the passengers.

Interesting point - if your usual drive is a manual, fault mode is left foot pressing hard on brake pedal having mistaken it for the clutch normally applied in a manual as you come to a halt.

If your usual drive is an auto, fault mode is failing to depress clutch either coming to a halt or changing gear - autos don't have clutches!!

I first started driving auto's at the tender age of 18 when I got a job at the Saab dealer in Aberdeen, and I've never had any difficulty going from one to the other. Also got my first taste of column change manuals there and really enjoyed that too!.

As for older drivers taking up auto for the first time, if my hapless (re driving) Mother in law can do it at the age of 66, and take to it like a duck to water, anyone should be able to!. IMO, an auto makes her a safer driver, and she happily admits to enjoying driving now much more than she did before.

Forcing a very large coterie of elderly drivers to go from a manual to an auto

I'd also be interested to learn who is "forcing" a very large coterie (whatever that is) of older drivers to go from manual to auto?

First of all, nobody has to have a new car. A fact you should be well aware of given the age of your 3 Andy!.

But, given the ban on new ICE cars is not going ahead till 2030 (which assumes that it doesn't get pushed further back), and that a reliable and well looked after car should easily last 5 years, it is a decade at least before anyone who really doesn't want an automatic is at the point where they have no other choice.

Yes, there are people who get a new car every two years or every three years, but that would be their own choice.

My own experience as a window cleaner with a lot of elderly customers is that most already have an auto. This includes a lady (70's) who upon my suggestion that she try and auto (husband, deceased, always had manual), which she did and (like my Mother in law) took to it like a duck to water. My pal let his Dad (early 70's) have a try of his automatic car recently and he enjoyed it so much he's decided that his next car will be an auto.

Further, my own experience of seeing very elderly drivers in manual cars suggest that most either shouldn't be driving full stop, or at least shouldn't be in a manual as they apparently have no idea how to balance clutch and accelerator, and no idea what gear they should be in any given situation!.

Some of your points re charging an EV if you don't have off street parking, particularly if living in a high rise building, are valid. But the claims that people will be "forced" into autos is simply not true (at least not for the better part of a decade) and the changing from manual to auto issue simply comes across as making a mountain out of a molehill. My own opinion based on observation and experience is that there isn't nearly as much people who'd struggle to change from manual to auto as you seem to think.

For those who worry (perhaps unnecessarily) about changing from manual to auto, it is easy enough to take some lessons.

Edited by badbusdriver on 26/07/2025 at 18:22

‘ It has helped being an engineer in Construction as I look at the practicalities of them as tools, hence why the overwhelming criticisms of mine towards the rapid move over to EVs as well as a critical (forensic) eye on the agendas behind such moves that are not based in hard science (whatever the distorted 'facts' may tell us).’ I’ve got to ask, then, where is your contrary, forensic evidence/data/science that says we’re going the wrong way with the move towards electrification?

Too fast without the right and mature tech to use it properly;

Only for the well-heeled;

Uses generation tech that increases foreign dependency (and specifically on China, hardly a friendly country) on cars, PV panels and wind turbines as well as all the garb going with the cars and charging equipment, a lot of which uses rare Earth minerals China now controls.

Has not considered many very significant safety and security issues by ploughing ahead way too quickly without looking at mitigation first or to any proper degree, as we are now discovering;

Bankrupting many Western firms (likely to soon include a good number of car manufacturers) and probably nations due to the (including similar move to net zero a generation [at least] too early for the same misguided / nefarious reasons) that are wasting £Bns on worthless schemes that really only benefit (at best) the well off and at worst the already ultra wealthy at a huge cost to the masses.

Is causing more child/slave labour in te mining of the many rare minerals needed for components but no-one (especially those so-caring socialists) seems to be bothered about that, because...progress / 'save the planet'.

Much of the mining and processing / manufacturing / recycling of EVs is NOT environmentally-friendly and never will be.

Enough for you?

Invert the history - imagine we’d all been driving autos for the past 120 or so years of motoring. Then someone comes along that’d just invented a manual gearbox. They’d have got laughed out of the patent office. Come to think of it, the same applies if we’d all been driving EV’s since the early 20th century, then someone comes along with a noisy, inefficient internal combustion engine.

And I'm sure if someone suggested instead of a battery the passengers sit on top of a plastic tank containing 60 litres of highly flammable material which you pump at high pressure out of an open nozzle there would be no people on YouTube sitting in their bedrooms ranting about safety concerns.

Edited by pd on 28/07/2025 at 08:25

Invert the history - imagine we’d all been driving autos for the past 120 or so years of motoring. Then someone comes along that’d just invented a manual gearbox. They’d have got laughed out of the patent office. Come to think of it, the same applies if we’d all been driving EV’s since the early 20th century, then someone comes along with a noisy, inefficient internal combustion engine.

Remember that on Model T Fords you changed gear with the pedals, not with a gear lever, They sold well anyway at the time.

Invert the history - imagine we’d all been driving autos for the past 120 or so years of motoring. Then someone comes along that’d just invented a manual gearbox. They’d have got laughed out of the patent office.

So what does that prove ? I suggest it proves that some humans are always looking to invent devices which may save them 'work', especially if doing so presents a mental challenge and may turn out to be profitable. It doesn't necessarily follow that progress will result, all things considered - and I mean ALL.

Shipping giant Matson declared last week that it would no longer transport electric vehicles (EVs) or plug-in hybrids on its vessels, citing the fire risks posed by lithium-ion batteries. This decision, effective immediately, followed the catastrophic sinking of the carrier Morning Midas earlier in June. The blaze, which aerial imagery showed billowing from the ship’s stern, underscored the perilous nature of lithium-ion battery fires — intense, almost impossible to extinguish, and prone to reignition.

Lithium-ion battery fires, as seen in incidents like the Morning Midas, Felicity Ace (2022), and Fremantle Highway (2023), are a unique hazard. These fires, driven by thermal runaway — a rapid, self-heating reaction — burn hotter than conventional fires, produce toxic gases and can reignite days or weeks later. In response, some German cities have banned EVs from underground parking due to fire risks, and a Norwegian ferry operator has prohibited them outright.

Matson’s move is a stark symbol of a broader reckoning: the electric vehicle revolution, once heralded as the inevitable future of mobility, has come full circle. Like a Rorschach test, the EV experience has exposed its hollow promises, revealing a deeper pathology in Western society’s obsession with 'green' ideals.

I can't believe we have to keep going over this:

Morning Midas - Sunk, cause of fire unknown

Felicity Ace - Sunk, cause of fire unknown

Fremantle Highway - Towed to port, EVs removed intact.

Matson's decision to suspend EV transportation may or may not be a good one. I suspect they're exploiting the opportunity presented by Trump's tariffs - their main competition (deliveries direct from China) has dwindled so the risk/reward picture has changed for them.

Copying Reddits now, are we?