Inform DVSA (or whatever they are called today). If its that serious they will carry out a recall.
I intend to do so, I also wondered about the mechanics of finding details of other affected owners with a view to establishing a class action.
Social media. Set up a Facebook page on the subject, anyone googling the problem should find it. But a no win no fee class action would need a lot of names.
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A brake servo failure does not have to mean a total loss of brakes, a harder press on the pedal may be all that is required.
and even more alarming I lost all power applying the brakes unless I pushed very hard on the brake pedal
Even in your case the brakes were still there but they needed harder press. Unpleasant and worrying but no accident.
If multiple cars were having total brake failure I am sure any manufacturer would be organising a recall. Remember the issues with the Celerio when it was first introduced, only 2 cars affected (both in the Autocar Road Test) but Suzuki took all those already sold back into the dealerships and suspended sales. But in those it did result in total loss of brakes.
I also wondered about the mechanics of finding details of other affected owners with a view to establishing a class action.
If the DVSA won't get involved it would not be as serious as the labels may appear and remember any class action may be very expensive legally and Honda have far more money than you do.
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I’ve had ths problem, a few weeks outside of warranty. Took a month to repair. Not sure how to take this further. Any suggestions?
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I’m an affected owner. Any more of us around?
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I’m an affected owner. Any more of us around?
clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=16448.0
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I’m an affected owner. Any more of us around?
clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=16448.0
That's a helpful link - it adds to the evidence that this problem is affecting a whole range of Honda cars of a similar age.
I've contacted Which, who sent me a draft of a letter to send to the dealership that first supplied my CR-V, but so far the dealership haven't responded. I've also written to the Sunday Times, but they haven't followed it up - perhaps it needs to a case of "the more the merrier" (though I'm not feeling very merry about it!)
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I will write to both Which and Sunday Times
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Thx ma***
My Jazz has now been fixed but I’m not sure how reliable it’s going to be after this problem.
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My Jazz has now been fixed but I’m not sure how reliable it’s going to be after this problem.
Pleased to hear your Jazz now fixed - I've been waiting since before Christmas. I completely identify with your reservation about future reliability, having always had problem-free Hondas in the past.
I'm seriously tempted to sell my CR-V when its repaired and go back to runnning a Toyota!
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In other news, the 2013 CRV my son and family owned was bought some 5 years ago by one of my colleagues, did them both a turn.
During sons ownership the aircon compressor was replaced under Honda approved used warranty to the tune of some £1400 (apparently not unusual) but every year my colleague informs me of a clean MOT pass and reliable motoring, he has it serviced once a year by his indy and it still looks pristine, should have bought the thing myself.
I still reckon one of the ecu/component repair workshops could sort these brake accumulators out, Robson and Francis in London are known in Landcruiser circles to be able to fix the accumulators which fail eventually on LCs for circa £200, taken to the dealer you're into £3000+ for a combined accumulator/master cy/ABS unit.
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Yes - currently in Honda awaiting a discussion with the service manager regarding my CRV (70 reg) brake servo failure and the repair bill of £2300. Will update shortly
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My Honda Jazz Hybrid, first registered Sep 2020 has recently suffered a failure of the brake simulator. Now out of warranty and the initial quote from my local Honda dealer to fix the problem was just over £2K. They agreed to contact Honda to request a “goodwill” payment and the response from Honda was to reduce the cost of the replacement part by 40% thus reducing the overall cost to £1500. Still far too much considering the car is only 3.5 years old and has 9000 miles on the clock. There is also likely to be a considerable delay in obtaining a replacement part from Japan so my car will be off the road for quite a while. Not good enough Honda. I am considering taking legal advice.
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I'd be interested to know which component fails/breaks down in these modules. Probably a 10p resistor.
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Seems no one is interested in seeking repair of the offending item.
Those of us on the Landcruiser forums get our brake accumulators repaired in London when they fail, at a cost of some £250 when the complete ABS/master cyl/accumulator unit would be well over £2000 plus fitting at the dealer.
I'd be making some phone calls and sending emails to ecu testing/repair specialists, you have nothing to lose bar the cost of a phone call or two and some well spent research and typing time, someone's got t be the first to find a get around.
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Seems no one is interested in seeking repair of the offending item.
Those of us on the Landcruiser forums get our brake accumulators repaired in London when they fail, at a cost of some £250 when the complete ABS/master cyl/accumulator unit would be well over £2000 plus fitting at the dealer.
I'd be making some phone calls and sending emails to ecu testing/repair specialists, you have nothing to lose bar the cost of a phone call or two and some well spent research and typing time, someone's got t be the first to find a get around.
Agreed, if it's a known problem, then surely someone like BBA reman would have heard of it and have a fix at considerably reduced (sensible) cost.
When my climate control failed on my BMW, I sent it to a guy in Cornwall who repaired it for £25. One thing I like about this country after watching some of the car restoration programmes is the number of talented people in companies and one man bands in sheds in the middle of nowhere who can put things right however difficult it initially looks.
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"if it's a known problem, then surely someone like BBA reman would have heard of it and have a fix"
BBA reman went bust/closed down some time ago.
find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk...5
find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk...2
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"if it's a known problem, then surely someone like BBA reman would have heard of it and have a fix"
BBA reman went bust/closed down some time ago.
find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk...5
find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk...2
I should have checked, it's been a while since I read about them. There are others.
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Seems no one is interested in seeking repair of the offending item.
As the OP who first flagged this issue in January (in my case a CR-V but I am aware of several Jazz affected) - I'll reply.
It seems that all the units have failed on 2020 vehicles, just out of the 3 year warranty.
As such I am still seeking recompense from Honda UK (via the Honda agent who sold the vehicle) under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 which attributes liability to the manufacturer for manufacturing faults up to 6 years from date of construction.
Under these circumstances I don't want to jeopardise my claim by using non-Honda parts, and in any case would be reluctant to seek repair of a safety component on a 3 year old car - whereas I would certainly follow up your suggestion for a component affecting a non-safety critical issue such as air-conditioning.
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Under these circumstances I don't want to jeopardise my claim by using non-Honda parts, and in any case would be reluctant to seek repair of a safety component on a 3 year old car - whereas I would certainly follow up your suggestion for a component affecting a non-safety critical issue such as air-conditioning.
Ironically aircon failure is something else that effects Hondas too, thankfully in my sons case they bought the vehicle with Honda approved warranty and it failed within the 12 months guarantee, a £1400 job.
I can understand your reluctance but there must come a point when you resign yourself the maker is not going to behave as one might expect and seek other methods to keep yourself mobile at sensible cost, who's to say the new replacement part won't fail again unless its been modified and if it has then they definately need to stump up, the very last thing i would want to do if they continue to baulk is put another penny of my hard earned their way and would be seeking alternative workshops etc for all future work servicing etc, i appreciate others see things differently, hope the maker does the right thing in these cases.
The Toyota brake accumulator motor failure issue happens rarely, with vehicles typically in their late teens or twenties and with seriously high mileage, the London workshop (Robson and Francis rewinds) rebuilds the accumulator motor which is the usual culprit, at a cost of around 1/10th that of replacing the whole brake unit.
Might be interesting to give Robsons a ring and see if they've had any of the Honda units in for refurb already.
Edited by gordonbennet on 15/04/2024 at 14:38
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I spoke to my dealership on Friday and again this morning. I've taken advice from a local trusted garage (who also has a Jazz in for Servo repair), Which and I have reviewed the DVSA complaints process. Below is a brief resume of Fridays dealership discussion:
- the conversation was frank and clear and I must commend the service manager for their pragamatic and professional attitude throughout.
- I stated that it was my view that the car was sold to me with a part that was not fit for purpose or of suitable quality. It should be expected that the brake servo should be expected to last the lifetime of the car.
- I was aware that under the consumer services act 2015 that it states that goods can be fully refunded or repaired at the sellers cost if they suffer major failure within 6 years of purchase if they were not fit for purpose at the point of sale.
- that I was aware that this was a wider problem via the online discussions, evidence from local garage (70 Reg Honda Jazz in for brake servo repair) and the 9 vehicles that the dealership currently had in for repair for the same issue.
- I asked about the timelines for repair and was informed that there was a likely 6 week wait. This reaffirmed my view that the part is in high demand due to the incidence of failures.
- I was offered a possible 40% goodwill discount on the repair and then asked what my intended outcome was. I stated that the repair was required due to a manufacturing fault and As it was not fit for purpose then I expected a repair at Hondas expense. This was to be escalated to Honda UK for resolution.
My bottom line is that this is a manufacturing fault present at the point of sale. Honda needs to acknowledge this and recall the affected models before the DVSA compels them to do so.
One final point. It was clear that Honda UK are passing this problem down to the dealers rather than addressing this at the National / European level. This needs to change as the dealerships cannot absorb the repair costs and have no option but to pass it on to the customer.
This IS DEFINITELY a Honda manufacturing fault and the Brake Servo was not fit for purpose or of suitable quality at the point of sale.
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I spoke to my dealership on Friday and again this morning. I've taken advice from a local trusted garage (who also has a Jazz in for Servo repair), Which and I have reviewed the DVSA complaints process. Below is a brief resume of Fridays dealership discussion:
Thanks for the update ... I am in complete agreement that this should be recognised, and repair funded by, Honda UK - rather than individual dealers as the fault must relate to components fitted in the manufacture of the vehicles.
I understand that the brake servo units fitted to the CR-V and Jazz differ, but my dealer acknowledged that the likelihood is that both have a common component which is failing after 3 years of normal driving.
I am still awaiting a response to my email and (signed for) letter sent to the Honda dealer that I purchased my CR-V from in 2020, quoting the Consumer Rights Act 2015 - but as I live 160 miles away I have not had a face-to-face discussion!
Edited by Theophilus on 16/04/2024 at 13:17
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Still no response from the Honda dealer that sold me the CR-V but I have sent a report to the DVSA detailing my concern that "there is a serious safety fault affecting the brake servo module on Honda CR-Vs and Honda Jazz manufactured in 2020, although it appears that other years have also been affected".
I did this online at Vehicle recalls and faults.
The DVSA seem to have taken my experience seriously, asked for more details, and have contacted Honda UK giving 28 days to respond.
If the DVSA receive more reports from owners of other vehicles this will add pressure to Honda to recognise that this requires a recall, and hopefully liability for the costs of both parts and fitting will be acknowledged.
The DVSA emphasised that they do not get involved in any financial settlement, but if they receive more reports it should seriously strengthen our case for Honda UK to fully cover the costs.
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Following an email to the MD of Honda UK I received a phone call from a member of his staff to say that although my Jazz was 6 months beyond the warranty Honda were now prepared to pay the total cost of the part but I would still have to bear the labour cost, around £500. However, when I went to pick up my car on Monday of this week The dealer told me that Honda would now fund the total cost of replacement, parts and labour. It seems that Honda have now realised how much this problem is damaging their reputation.
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Following an email to the MD of Honda UK I received a phone call from a member of his staff to say that although my Jazz was 6 months beyond the warranty Honda were now prepared to pay the total cost of the part but I would still have to bear the labour cost, around £500. However, when I went to pick up my car on Monday of this week The dealer told me that Honda would now fund the total cost of replacement, parts and labour. It seems that Honda have now realised how much this problem is damaging their reputation.
It sounds very much like that Honda Motor Europe UK have had "words of wisdom" from the DVSA and modified their approach to the problem, in that it's their faulty product.
Having said that, I would be concerned that if faulty units are being replaced, are the replacement units used as replacements built to a higher/ modified standard than the original failed units?
Otherwise it just kicks the can down the road until the units fail again.
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That's great news Chris ... hopefully indicates a change of heart by Honda UK (incidentally what email address did you find for the MD?)
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