any - Intelligence Test Failed - ExA35Owner

Driving south on the M6 in Lancashire yesterday. Narrow lanes for bridge repairs, very clear signage, 50mph limit, average speed cameras (visible and signposted). Very obvious reasons for the speed limit.

Obvious thing to do as a driver: keep within the speed limit. But the matrix display said that 1036 speeding tickets had been issued in the last week! How can any intelligent driver get a ticket there???

any - Intelligence Test Failed - Galaxy

Foreign registered vehicles or not corrrectly registered UK ones.

Some people simply just don't care and they still get away with it!

Of course, you do have to assume the displayed information is correct.

any - Intelligence Test Failed - John F

....the matrix display said that 1036 speeding tickets had been issued in the last week! How can any intelligent driver get a ticket there???

Out of the hundreds of thousands of vehicles which passed the cameras that week there would have been quite a few stupid drivers, as even some of those on the far left of the Bell curve of intelligence can presumably pass the UK driving test. And probably among those 1036, there will be some that haven't.

any - Intelligence Test Failed - brum

....the matrix display said that 1036 speeding tickets had been issued in the last week!

Do you believe everything you read without question?

Don't you think this may be simply a scare tactic?

Has anyone checked if this figure changes from week to week?

If it said 1036 speeding tickets were issued in this particular stretch of road during the dates of ........ I might be more inclined to believe it.

Perhaps a freedom of information request would answer the question.

any - Intelligence Test Failed - bathtub tom

I was on the M1 yesterday on a 'smart' section that was displaying a 60 limit. Two of the cars in front of me would brake at every vernier painted on the road under a gantry (the verniers were nearly completely worn out). I guess some people don't understand average speed cameras.

any - Intelligence Test Failed - brum

The standard HADECS cameras installed on smart motorway gantries are not average speed cameras. They are variable speed cameras.

SPECS cameras as used in temporary roadworks areas are used as an average speed measuring network (if actually connected up, calibrated and working). AFAIK where there are Specs cameras there is always a sign clearly stating average speed check. Note that specs cameras use APNR continually which could be used by DVSA to check illegal vehicles, tax, Mot, sorn etc and by the police to locate and/or track individual vehicles. Whether they do or not, I have no idea.

Edited by brum on 12/07/2021 at 15:51

any - Intelligence Test Failed - Engineer Andy

....the matrix display said that 1036 speeding tickets had been issued in the last week!

Do you believe everything you read without question?

Don't you think this may be simply a scare tactic?

Has anyone checked if this figure changes from week to week?

If it said 1036 speeding tickets were issued in this particular stretch of road during the dates of ........ I might be more inclined to believe it.

Perhaps a freedom of information request would answer the question.

Given the government's recent admission of using covert (and sometimes not so covert) scare tactics on 'other matters of importance', I wouldn't put it passed them.

I also wouldn't be at all surprised if many people were caught becuase they still don't understand that many of these cameras often will nick you if you drive fast, then slow past the camera. Many people also over-estimate their vehicle's speedo over-read, given it mostly will be higher at 70 than it will be at 50.

any - Intelligence Test Failed - Bromptonaut

Given the government's recent admission of using covert (and sometimes not so covert) scare tactics on 'other matters of importance', I wouldn't put it passed them.

I'm not clear what this refers to.

I also wouldn't be at all surprised if many people were caught becuase they still don't understand that many of these cameras often will nick you if you drive fast, then slow past the camera. Many people also over-estimate their vehicle's speedo over-read, given it mostly will be higher at 70 than it will be at 50.

Spot on. The concept of average speed seems beyond some folk.

any - Intelligence Test Failed - FP

"Given the government's recent admission of using covert (and sometimes not so covert) scare tactics on 'other matters of importance', I wouldn't put it passed them."

What on earth is this about? What 'other matters of importance'?

Is it an attempt to slip some larger (and potentially contentious) political point, without actually saying so - because you know the row that will erupt - again?

any - Intelligence Test Failed - madf

Given the government's recent admission of using covert (and sometimes not so covert) scare tactics on 'other matters of importance', I wouldn't put it passed them.

I also wouldn't be at all surprised if many people were caught becuase they still don't understand that many of these cameras often will nick you if you drive fast, then slow past the camera. Many people also over-estimate their vehicle's speedo over-read, given it mostly will be higher at 70 than it will be at 50.

1. I don't understand "covert scare tactics".

I assume it's another conspiracy theory. I am told these are believed in by the weak minded .

2 .People who speed in "average speed camera " marked areas are obviously dangerous to themselves and others.

They deserve - and NEED - a fine to ensure they read road signs .Some might suggest another lot of weak minded people. And if they lose their licence due to repeated speeding, serves them right.

any - Intelligence Test Failed - Engineer Andy

Given the government's recent admission of using covert (and sometimes not so covert) scare tactics on 'other matters of importance', I wouldn't put it passed them.

I also wouldn't be at all surprised if many people were caught becuase they still don't understand that many of these cameras often will nick you if you drive fast, then slow past the camera. Many people also over-estimate their vehicle's speedo over-read, given it mostly will be higher at 70 than it will be at 50.

1. I don't understand "covert scare tactics".

I assume it's another conspiracy theory. I am told these are believed in by the weak minded .

If you recall, the government's own you-know-what expert advisors recently (and publicly) admitted they 'went too far' in such an exercise carried out on the entire nation in order to do as they wanted.

I deliberately kept the subject out of it (and still here) so as not to re-open any 'old wounds' - it was an example to show how psychology can be used to get people into doing the bidding of those in charge. The point here is that none of us know whether those 'X number of deaths' or 'Y numbers of people caught speeding' signs are true.

I've seen other tactics such as dropping speed limits from 60 to 40, where the latter is certainly not indicated - 50 would be far more appropriate, but the authorirites presumably think everyone will speed at the limit +5 to 10mph so that will 'do the trick' Unfortunately, in such circumstances, the reason why there's a problem is that many reckless drivers ignore whatever speed limit is place, precisiely because there's no houses, etc around so people can easily take video of the car speeding.

A road close to my parents' home town had this scenario, because there was this sort of speeding, with one fatality. The problem still exists today despite the limit being dropped from 60 to 40 because the same lot still ignore that limit, just planting on the anchors as they reach each speed camera - dangerous in its own right, especially in bad weather.

The car involved in the fatal crash was tarvelling at 80mph.

Many people (stupidly) ignore speed limits imposed on sections of motorway roadworks because they are often unduly low (40) when no-one is actually working - even during the daytime. The same goes for the 'variable' speed limits on motorways, which as we've discussed before, often stay in place for well after they are needed, if they were at all in many circumstances.

Common sense is what's needed, and I think the overwhelming amount of drivers will respond reasonably if the authorities treat them as such. Go after the bad ones, not 95% of the rest of us because it's easier.

2 .People who speed in "average speed camera " marked areas are obviously dangerous to themselves and others.

They deserve - and NEED - a fine to ensure they read road signs .Some might suggest another lot of weak minded people. And if they lose their licence due to repeated speeding, serves them right.

Indeed it does, though see my comments above.

any - Intelligence Test Failed - Andrew-T

<< It was an example to show how psychology can be used to get people into doing the bidding of those in charge. The point here is that none of us know whether those 'X number of deaths' or 'Y numbers of people caught speeding' signs are true. >>

Unless he works in the particular branch of statistics concerned, I don't see how Joe Public could 'know' whether any published figures are 'true' - which is why so many conspiracy theories are invented by people who don't want to believe the numbers.

Especially percentages. Any impressive number can be quoted to make a point, often with little evidence. They can sound very convincing, done properly. People who aren't scientifically based can be persuaded of a strong argument.

But that doesn't mean they are all government-supported B/S.

any - Intelligence Test Failed - FP

"I deliberately kept the subject out of it (and still here) so as not to re-open any 'old wounds'..."

"...the government's own you-know-what expert advisors..."

Spare us the piety.

You are trying to sneak in controversy while simultaneously trying to disown it.

There was absolutely no need to introduce this reference and you are now compounding the problem with further wink-wink nudge-nudge stuff. There's only one word for it: dishonesty.

any - Intelligence Test Failed - Engineer Andy

"I deliberately kept the subject out of it (and still here) so as not to re-open any 'old wounds'..."

"...the government's own you-know-what expert advisors..."

Spare us the piety.

You are trying to sneak in controversy while simultaneously trying to disown it.

There was absolutely no need to introduce this reference and you are now compounding the problem with further wink-wink nudge-nudge stuff. There's only one word for it: dishonesty.

Charming. If if was trying to politicise a discussion, don't you think I'd specifically mention the subject I was deliberately trying not to? I don't think you trying to raise the temperature here helps matters.

I was geneuinely pointing out that psychology has been frequently used in the past and a very public recent case to get people to do what the authorities want - including sometimes by inflating/massaging the truth, even if it was for a 'good cause'.

Under the circumstances, I think the analogy was fair comment, especially as I chose not to go into any specifics. I never once tried to 'disown' anything - I think you made a controversy where there was none. No-one took issue with the comments as you did.

Let's just leave it at that and get on with discussing the main issue, ok?

any - Intelligence Test Failed - FP

" If if was trying to politicise a discussion, don't you think I'd specifically mention the subject I was deliberately trying not to?"

If you were trying to AVOID politicising a discussion you wouldn't mention anything. Your "hint", combined with your history on this forum, means that people were encouraged to draw conclusions.

"I was geneuinely pointing out that psychology has been frequently used in the past and a very public recent case to get people to do what the authorities want - including sometimes by inflating/massaging the truth, even if it was for a 'good cause'." If we were sure what you were thinking about we might be able to judge how "genuine" your comment was; as it is, it's not unreasonable to assume it's the old right-wing conspiracy stuff, which some of us are heartily sick of, but you hid behind the vagueness.

"Let's just leave it at that and get on with discussing the main issue, ok?" If you now wish you hadn't put what you wrote it would be nice if you said so. If you are going to stick with it, have the honesty to say what you were really talking about - "the government's recent admission of using covert (and sometimes not so covert) scare tactics on 'other matters of importance'."

any - Intelligence Test Failed - Engineer Andy

Calm down, sir. You're taking a minor aside comment and taking it way out of proportion. I suggest that you take Xileno's suggestion to heart.

any - Intelligence Test Failed - Bromptonaut

If it said 1036 speeding tickets were issued in this particular stretch of road during the dates of ........ I might be more inclined to believe it.

Perhaps a freedom of information request would answer the question.

We're talking a trunk motorway with thousands of vehicles an hour.

A bit of me is surprised the number not understanding 'average speed' is so low.

Edited by Bromptonaut on 12/07/2021 at 22:05

any - Intelligence Test Failed - Andrew-T

[1] Do you believe everything you read without question?

[2] Don't you think this may be simply a scare tactic?

[1] No, but neither do I automatically assume it is an invented number or a conspiracy theory.

[2] No, but if it works as one that may be a good thing ?

any - Intelligence Test Failed - galileo

....the matrix display said that 1036 speeding tickets had been issued in the last week! How can any intelligent driver get a ticket there??

Out of the hundreds of thousands of vehicles which passed the cameras that week there would have been quite a few stupid drivers, as even some of those on the far left of the Bell curve of intelligence can presumably pass the UK driving test. And probably among those 1036, there will be some that haven't.

It appears that just over 7% of cars in Bradford, Oldham, Manchester and Northwest London are uninsured. Given the proliferation of ANPR cameras, so the drivers of these don't care about being fined for no insurance and won't care about speeding tickets either.

It may be that these cars are stolen, on cloned plates or just 'pool' cars used by criminals, 7% is a large number of cars. The same source of data estimates the chance of one of these being involved in an accident is about 1 in 14.

Be careful out there!

any - Intelligence Test Failed - tim10597

I also saw that sign yesterday and can well believe the number is accurate. Whilst we were in that section, an 07 plate Focus went past us at probably 70mph or so, and was closely followed by someone in a Vauxhall.

I commented to my wife that neither of them obviously valued their licence as the signs were very clear as to the speed limit…..

any - Intelligence Test Failed - brum

May have been undercover police or trainees.

any - Intelligence Test Failed - alan1302

May have been undercover police or trainees.

May have been, but unlikely especially in older cars...just some i****s is more likely.

any - Intelligence Test Failed - tim10597

Could have been, but both cars fairly old and the Focus definitely not in brilliant condition. If that’s what they were giving people to drive, I’d be a bit concerned.

Edited by tim10597 on 13/07/2021 at 16:42

any - Intelligence Test Failed - Miniman777

There are many who dont understand the concept of average speed. Or simply believe the cameras are working.

I often see cars brake for the first cameras, speed up, then brake for the end of limit cameras. This is where I find a speed limiter very useful in avoiding points too.

Sadly very few intelligent drivers around, just thick and selfish ones.

any - Intelligence Test Failed - Xileno

Given the government's recent admission of using covert (and sometimes not so covert) scare tactics on 'other matters of importance', I wouldn't put it passed them.

I'm not clear what this refers to.

Neither am I but what I do know is none of the sub-discussion is relevant to the original theme of the thread.

Can we return to discussing the speed camera issue please.

Edited by Xileno on 14/07/2021 at 06:51

any - Intelligence Test Failed - Engineer Andy

Given the government's recent admission of using covert (and sometimes not so covert) scare tactics on 'other matters of importance', I wouldn't put it passed them.

I'm not clear what this refers to.

Neither am I but what I do know is none of the sub-discussion is relevant to the original theme of the thread.

Can we return to discussing the speed camera issue please.

As I explained above, authorities, in my view, are not averse to using psychological tricks, massaging the truth (and sometimes a lot more) to get people to 'comply' with their wishes, in the case the OP describes, they may have bumped up the figures, and as I suggested earlier, they've done this with 'road death' figures on 'blackspots' - I've see ones both in my locale and when on holiday where they've inflated the figures or left a sign up from 20+ years ago when accidents were a lot higher than now - confirmed by talking to locals.

I also mentioned this sort of thing when the GATSO type speed cameras have been put up on roads near to where I've lived over the years despite them not meeting the unabiguous criteria for doing so.

Taking the topic off to one side, perhaps, but certainly not off topic or politicising it as one or two may believe. It was feeding into my comments that many people feel agrieved at many of these (often very low) speed limits being imposed when there's no work going on in the vicinity to merit them being so low, even if them subsequently breaking those limits and possibly being caught because they misjudge their average speed is unwise at best.

My point was that the limits should be reasonable taking into account the conditions (including whether work is going on - in my view, it wouldn't be that difficult to have variable limits of that type for roadworks sections, and to be honest about what they're doing and have done (i.e. those caught speeding and the number of accidents due to speeding).

any - Intelligence Test Failed - Andrew-T

<< ... authorities, in my view, are not averse to using psychological tricks, massaging the truth ... to get people to 'comply' with their wishes, >>

You can easily understand why that approach is necessary, because a large proportion of Brits resent being told what to do, unless they can be persuaded that it is a good idea. Impressive stats may be a way to achieve that, as most people will be unable to disprove them.

In a Similar Vein - Bromptonaut

A lorry driver involved in an accident with a Skoda car grossly inflated his claim including faking being a wheelchair user. £60k in costs and 26 weeks in the slammer for contempt of court:
www.judiciary.uk/judgments/one-insurance-ltd-v-bea.../

Edited by Bromptonaut on 14/07/2021 at 14:08

In a Similar Vein - brum

A lorry driver involved in an accident with a Skoda car grossly inflated his claim including faking being a wheelchair user. £60k in costs and 26 weeks in the slammer for contempt of court:
www.judiciary.uk/judgments/one-insurance-ltd-v-bea.../

And what has that got to do with average speed cameras?

Mods please close the thread, its just an excuse to pontificate and call other people iijuts