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I thought that misfuelling a diesel (more than a tiny amount) rapidly leads to major issues, rather than 'building up' to an engine failure of the type you describe. Surely the test drive of the car would have picked up some worrying sings, unless the misfuelling was carried out by the seller in between that and handing it over?
It's unfortunate that there's no practical way that the new owener can prove anything - they certainly could've done it themselves and just pretended it was the previous owner/dealer to cover up their own mistake. It could've also been a dodgy batch from a filling station.
I do recall one of the TV motoring shows (Fifth Gear, perhaps) doing an item on misfuelling, and it appeared that some diesel-engined cars are more hardy and resistant to damage from misfuelling than others, perhaps the old 80s - early 2000s designed engines compared to the more modern 'common rail' ones onwards.
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“I thought that misfuelling a diesel (more than a tiny amount) rapidly leads to major issues, rather than 'building up' to an engine failure of the type you describe. Surely the test drive of the car would have picked up some worrying sings, unless the misfuelling was carried out by the seller in between that and handing it over?”
He’s had it for months but isn’t mechanically minded so I wonder if anything was noticeable such as a noisy fuel pump on test drive or perhaps either he or darling wife has made the mistake themselves.
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Not quite in the same league as this but I recently posted a sad tale about an owner of. Q7 who filled the diesel tank with Adblue before filling up with diesel. The car has two filler pipes inches apart. £15,500 damage which the insurers refused to cover as accidental !
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Well I call BS on the garage involved. If the diesel pump disintegrated, then the the first thing would be low fuel pressure (which should be picked up by the fuel pressure sensor) and debris would contaminate the common rail and block ithe injectors. The car would not be able to run or start.
New fuel pump, common rail and pipes, new injectors, fuel filter, and it should be good to go.
As I said any modern DI petrol, e.g. TSI units have a high pressure fuel pump, they don't require any lubricant.
SLO cites that you don't know if a used car had been misfuelled, although the statement is true, its also true that any used car has potential unknown history of abuse, petrol or diesel.
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Well I call BS on the garage involved....
SLO cites that you don't know if a used car had been misfuelled, although the statement is true, its also true that any used car has potential unknown history of abuse, petrol or diesel.
Can't help feeling that in this case and the one Steveieb mentioned, that the dealers have taken the opportunity to fleece the punter for as much as they possibly could. I'm assuming that in both these cases that it is main dealers who are diagnosing and not trusted indies.
If the tank has had petrol put in (by mistake) then several tanks of diesel, how could the "Engineer" possibly tell it had been miss-fuelled? Were the "Engineers" employed by either the dealer or manufacturer? In either case it's in their interest to blame the punter. There are limits to what a manufacturer will pay the dealer for a warranty repair, but there are no limits, as to how much, they can charge a punter.
I agree with focussed and brum. I don't see how the engine could have ingested anything.
Even a brand new car could have been miss-fuelled (at the dealer) before you take delivery!
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If the car had been misfuelled then how long before damage is done? I did a misfuel but realised before I started the engine. The AA guy said he is called out many times for this issue, I have had several diesel cars second hand with no problem, indeed the V70 has just passed 150k and is a real workhorse. I have had two petrol engines fail so I tend to favour the diesel.
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It's an interesting thread as like BBD, I am looking at van based cars for a particular reason of huge practically to transport bikes inside, camping gear and general outdoor junk. The problem is the usually recommended makers, Toyota, honda, Mazda don't do one and the ones that do eg VW caddy, ford connect, petrol ones are like gold. The PSA group sell their 1.2 puretech version which is apparently fast gaining a reputation for destroying itself after a couple of years! So one is left with a choice of 1 5 DCI, ( nv200), 1.6 or 1 5 PSA diesel, (same as Ford's), or the 1.6 vag unit. There are millions of all these on the road and I don't see hordes of them broken down, so are the problems just magnified enormously and in fact a reasonably new diesel with a good service history is a safe enough bet given the caveat of frequent oil changes and a good run once a week to exercise the dpf etc. ?
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There are millions of all these on the road and I don't see hordes of them broken down, so are the problems just magnified enormously and in fact a reasonably new diesel with a good service history is a safe enough bet given the caveat of frequent oil changes and a good run once a week to exercise the dpf etc. ?
Most of my cars over the last 35 years have been pretty much trouble free. That list includes a 2004 Clio which I had for 8 years. Also includes 3 Fiesta's, a Micra and a couple of VAG vehicles.
The exception to this rule was the Yaris and i20 (both bought as pre-reg). These cars caused nothing but grief.
You can do all the homework you like, but sometimes it just comes down to luck if you get a good car/ van.
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Diesels have a far higher attrition rate than petrol equivalents as they age. Think about the older family and prestige cars you see on the road. The bulk of Mondeo, Vectra and BMW survivors into old age are petrol despite more diesels than petrol having been sold. In the sort of price range I typically was dealing at (sub £3k) they were a total liability and most legitimate traders avoided them like the plague. They more complex and thus there’s more to go wrong. The misfuelling issue is common and causes damage, often severe if it’s allowed to run without sufficient lubrication from diesel in the tank and when you buy one you’ve no idea if it’s happened.
I like the torquey nature of a Diesel engine, they’re relaxing to drive and there’s usually an economy saving as a sweetener but the costs can rapidly mount up as they age and they rarely make financial sense on a tight budget. In fact I typically won’t recommend one below £8,000. Ive witnessed many a motoring disaster relating to cheap diesels over the years and for every pain free story there’s two that end in financial woe.
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Misfueled myself once. Put in about 4 litres of petrol before realising. The fuel gauge light had been on so there was little fuel in the tank. I just put 65 plus litres of diesel on top of it. The car, a Pug 406 never missed a beat and went on to do sterling work for 115K miles before going back to lease company. Maybe I was lucky or maybe back in 1999 diesel were not as sophisticated and therefore less prone to my stupidity. Don't recommend it though.
Cheers Concrete
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My friend Terry filled his Nissan Micra MK 1 with diesel by mistake
He only paid £100 for the car so a tank full of fuel was a significant investment.
So he carried on driving it followed by clouds of black smoke until the tank was half full.
He then topped it up with petrol and continued to run the car until the MOT.
My son has a garden machinery business and has machines bought to him that won't start. First thing he smells the fuel , if it's diesel he drains the tank and carb and a squirt of starter spray and it's off. Owners storing two kinds of fuel in the garage is the usual problem.
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When I wa working at the M1 garage I managed to fill a Lorry with 20 gallons of petrol before realising. The driver understandingly was fuming. Luckily we had our own workshops wher the fuel was drained out and I didn't dare ask what happened to the drained fuel !
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Diesel engines are normally bigger than the equivalent petrol so therefore do last longer according to most sites I've found. Current diesel 2.4 on 151k which is better than any petrol I've had in 50 tears. Never blown a diesel but have had two petrol go. Many many taxis which do huge miles are diesel too.
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Not quite in the same league as this but I recently posted a sad tale about an owner of. Q7 who filled the diesel tank with Adblue before filling up with diesel. The car has two filler pipes inches apart. £15,500 damage which the insurers refused to cover as accidental !
But I bet that the DPF was never cleaner! :-)
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Ok SLO , two Diesel engines that don't seem to have a high attrician rate are the XUD and VW PD which was fitted to various VAG cars.
Some of these reached monumental mileages and lots were taxis so didn't get the best of treatment.
So maybe it was the introduction of the common rail diesel that was its downfall ?
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So maybe it was the introduction of the common rail diesel that was its downfall ?
The increasing sophistication probably plays a part, but I'd think most of the blame can be laid at the door of two factors. The combination of emissions related stuff like DPF's along with most diesels being run in conditions likely to cause problems, i.e, short, stop-start journeys.
Also, while the VAG PD TDI was undoubtably very reliable, it did go through the oil!. I worked at a VW dealer when the PD first appeared and when picking up their new car, customers were told to check the oil level regularly and given a container of oil away with them to top it up between services. Needless to say, not adhering to this, could easily cause an engine failure.
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Ok SLO , two Diesel engines that don't seem to have a high attrician rate are the XUD and VW PD which was fitted to various VAG cars.
Some of these reached monumental mileages and lots were taxis so didn't get the best of treatment.
So maybe it was the introduction of the common rail diesel that was its downfall ?
It’s not the Diesel engine itself, it’s all the emissions control equipment which cause the trouble. From EGR valve to complex injection system to particulate filter, it gums and soots up and costs a fortune in repairs as they get into old age. The old gen diesels are very different beasts. The XUD and PD motors were brilliant things.
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