A couple of inches of slush and the traffic england map is full of stretches of red and black (=non-moving traffic). A14 closed due to difficulty removing jack-knifed HGV.
We can now be fined for running out of petrol on motorways. Perhaps large fines for those who paralyse a significant proportion of the country's GDP - number of person-hours + tons of static goods-hours x £10? Might concentrate the minds of cavalier HGV drivers and haulage companies with virtually slick tyres on their vehicles in winter conditions.
I can fully understand about fines for running out of fuel, but HGVs jack-knifing etc is rather too much of a generalisation - way too many accidents in poor weather (not just snow and ice) are caused by other drivers, such as cutting people up (especially when combined with braking manuevres) and filling the (adequate) breaking space in front, which adversely affect larger, heavier vehicles that cannot just avoid these idiots as a car might (though not always). Yes, many HGV drivers tailgate eachother for 'slipstreaming' purposes to save fuel, but just as many cars cause HGVs to have accidents.
Take each accident as they come - if the Police finds evidence of careless, reckless/dangerous driving, then fine, through the book at them.
I just hope the A14 is OK tomorrow - both my parents and myself will be using it and the M11 to visit my sister and brother-in-law near to Cambridge. I'm more concerned about the slush turning to ice when the temperature drops to -2degC overnight and only reaches +2degC by Thursday afternoon. Snow you can see and drive accordingly, ice is far more tricky (especially when its patchy and black ice at night) and far too many people drive too fast and leave way too little space in front/time to brake and maneuvre in such conditions.
What would be nice is if all the councils show on maps which of their roads have been gritted and how long ago (I'm assuming that ALL trunk routes managed by the Highways Authority are done so), which could easily be done via simple GPS-led apps for drivers' phones in the gritting lorries - some councils only grit bus routes, other do far more, which would help everyone plan routes better and avoid everyone congregating on main roads only when other routes are actually fine (Google maps is useless in this regard - if no-one uses a road, then we don't know if its ok to use it, only the level of congestion/speed of traffic denoted by the colour).
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The gritters were fighting a losing battle yesterday whatever happened.
Constant rain across the midlands late afternoon which didn't lift off until it turned to snow sometime just before midnight, at what point should the gritters cover every single mile of main route and at what cost? re wasted wages (Boxing Night rate) and thousands of tons of grit washing straight down the drain.
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The gritters were fighting a losing battle yesterday whatever happened.......
If only they did actually use grit - like they do in Alpine regions. On well known black spots like the hilly bits of the western A14 and northern M11, a designated grit (not salt) lorry should have been out there at midnight just doing those stretches. Then sweep it up afterwards and return it to the depot. The salt from the 'gritters' just dissolves and provides no purchase for the wheels. Why is the Highways Agency so incompetent?
And why aren't chains available for these slick-tyred trucks? Although I suppose the drivers aren't up to 'ice road trucker' competence when it comes to fitting them.
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And why aren't chains available for these slick-tyred trucks? Although I suppose the drivers aren't up to 'ice road trucker' competence when it comes to fitting them.
Quite, you'll be pleased to know we've been dumbed down, just like the rest of the country, as i said before the harvest of what has been sown here for decades is being reaped many fold, the irony is painful.
The vast majority of lorries in use in our country are one size fits all parcel speciification artics, one axle driven out of 6 being the third axle on a tractor unit, increasingly difficult for the driver to transfer weights onto that single drive axle as things get more automated and even when you can transfer weights because the fith wheel trailer connection is in front of the drive axle much of the weight transfer is lost to the steer axle, some makes have no weight transfer facility whatsoever, almost every single modern lorry any weight transfer acility is deactivated above 20kph.
Chains will have little effect on a vehicle specifically designed to have limited traction on its drive wheels, and soon as the snow is cleared will rip the road to shreds, then where exactly are the the umpteen thousand lorries servicing our stupidly overpopulated England supposed to park whilst they fit and strip off chains?
By all means carry on shooting the messenger, the messenger doesn't sport gelled hair pointy shoes or a shiny suit so has no input whatsover on the tools he is issued with, if you want to change things find someone in the DoT who knows anything about the industry at all, and who hasn't been instructed by the vested interests what to do, or is remotely interested in actually doing something useful, good luck in your search...if you do find such a person ask them why young tipper drivers are descending steep hills fully freighted in too high a gear relying solely on the brakes and what could possibly go wrong... what you will get in return is a suggestion to go with the new British motto....Keep Quiet and Carry On.
Happy to be have been of no service whatsover.
Edited by gordonbennet on 27/12/2017 at 15:19
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Very informative contributions here - lots of things a bog standard car driver needs to learn before ever going out on a public road. In an ideal world, the driving test would include a couple of short films - with compulsory comprehension testing! - about the reality of riding a motorbike and driving an HGV (and even riding a bike!), so that people who will in all likelihood only drive cars in real life, will at least appreciate the nature of driving/riding other forms of transport. Even if one accident can be saved by a diesel car driver NOT brimming the tank, or if just one driver swings wide to overtake a cyclist to warn following traffic as well as lower the risk of buffeting to the cyclist...
In an even more ideal world, ALL car drivers would have HOURS of motorway tuition before gaining a licence and might just remember which lane to be in. And a system similar to Spain's, which involves a ten yearly test of eyesight, hearing, reflexes and hand-eye coordination, to renew a driving licence, would not come amiss.
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Hello one and all,
First I hope you all had a good xmas, and all the best for the new year.
I don;t know how many of you keep up to date with the latest ideas that are going to come into force, not many i am assuming from only some of the comments made here, WHY DON'T DRIVERS UPDATE THEMSELVES.
ok it is going to happen that learner drivers will be allowed on our motorways, however it must be with a duel control vehicle and only with a qualified instructor from a driving school, who has booked the lesson. In other words an instructor will not be bale to take his best mate for a quickie lesson, nor will he be able to use anything other then the official car. I don't agree with it but it is going to happen.
What does professional mean ? People use that word too freely these days, look folks stupid drivers is something we are all going to have to get used to, they are not going to go away, or disappear from our roads, so, we have to adjust our driving to avoid a collision, and yes that sometimes means giving way when we should not, you have to deal with the drivers around you, for example if someone refuses to give way on a mini roundabout, does that give you the right to drive straight into them even though they are stupid, of course not. I have heard so many people say it does not matter because I can clalm of the insurance, isnt that rather beside the point ?
Sorry getting distracted, let me ask you all something if there is a collision between a car and a truck, and lets say it is 50/50 for the sake of this argument, is it not the case that if both parties are 50% responsible for being involved in the collision, then they are equally to blame for not avoiding it ?
As a hgv driver, or psv driver don't you shoulder the majority of the blame in a 50/50 situation, why, because you are supposed to be better then the car driver, and being better does not only mean driving better, it means being better at spotting trouble BEFORE IT BECOMES A PROBLEM, better at spotting bad driving and using your professional skill at avoiding it giving idiot drivers more space and time then you would normally afford them, isnt that what be a professional is really all about, or am I wrong ?
Eg if you are on a motorway and you see someone weaving all over the road, would a professional try to get past or hold back ? Would a professional be looking into his/her mirror to try and warn others of the danger ahead or simply leave them to find out the hard way.
Country roads are hard on drivers of large vehicles, and tractors as well, tractors especially because the bigger tractors are wider then a hgv, yet how many of you go flying around blind corners without thinking there may very be a tractor/goods vehicle coming the other way. Is it professional to stay on your side and think oh well its tough if they don't have enough room on their side, I can claim of the insurance because they have taken some of my road, is that going to satisfy you when you put your child in a coffin because you didnt show due care and attention even though you saw the bend in good time.
And if you think it's just car drivers you are wrong, the speed at which I have seen truck drivers take the twisty country lanes is frightening, showing no preperation for another large vehicle coming the other way, and what makes it worse is they know a large vehicle will need some of their road, but apparently do not give a fig.
I am particularly critical of drivers and children,why is it so hard for drivers to look to the pavement/middle island, and providing it is safe to do so, just stop to let them cross from the island in the middle to the pavement, whenever I see children in a dangerious situation I always let them continue safely, much to the annoyance of others, now you are saying but they are safe there ( they are not ), have you ever seen those bollards completely stop a vehicle, the asnwer is no, they will go over the first one and settle on the second one, and thats just in a car.
The roads have changed, driving has changed, and you have to change with it if you still want to consider yourself a good driver. Previous performance is no guarantee of future performance, and be honest with yourself and know when its time to get a bus pass, for everyones sake.
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Have you ever looked up the word "condescending"? Your username gives a bit of a clue right from the off.
If you spent a little more time keeping the contribution more concise and better composed and spent less time talking down to other mere mortals from a position of self importance and self righteousness then the post might have more impact and get a better response.
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Things should be left as they are These incidents dont happen enough in this country for it to be a major problem
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Hello one and all,
First I hope you all had a good xmas, and all the best for the new year.
I don;t know how many of you keep up to date with the latest ideas that are going to come into force, not many i am assuming from only some of the comments made here, WHY DON'T DRIVERS UPDATE THEMSELVES.
ok it is going to happen that learner drivers will be allowed on our motorways, however it must be with a duel control vehicle and only with a qualified instructor from a driving school, who has booked the lesson. In other words an instructor will not be bale to take his best mate for a quickie lesson, nor will he be able to use anything other then the official car. I don't agree with it but it is going to happen.
What does professional mean ? People use that word too freely these days, look folks stupid drivers is something we are all going to have to get used to, they are not going to go away, or disappear from our roads, so, we have to adjust our driving to avoid a collision, and yes that sometimes means giving way when we should not, you have to deal with the drivers around you, for example if someone refuses to give way on a mini roundabout, does that give you the right to drive straight into them even though they are stupid, of course not. I have heard so many people say it does not matter because I can clalm of the insurance, isnt that rather beside the point ?
Sorry getting distracted, let me ask you all something if there is a collision between a car and a truck, and lets say it is 50/50 for the sake of this argument, is it not the case that if both parties are 50% responsible for being involved in the collision, then they are equally to blame for not avoiding it ?
As a hgv driver, or psv driver don't you shoulder the majority of the blame in a 50/50 situation, why, because you are supposed to be better then the car driver, and being better does not only mean driving better, it means being better at spotting trouble BEFORE IT BECOMES A PROBLEM, better at spotting bad driving and using your professional skill at avoiding it giving idiot drivers more space and time then you would normally afford them, isnt that what be a professional is really all about, or am I wrong ?
Eg if you are on a motorway and you see someone weaving all over the road, would a professional try to get past or hold back ? Would a professional be looking into his/her mirror to try and warn others of the danger ahead or simply leave them to find out the hard way.
Country roads are hard on drivers of large vehicles, and tractors as well, tractors especially because the bigger tractors are wider then a hgv, yet how many of you go flying around blind corners without thinking there may very be a tractor/goods vehicle coming the other way. Is it professional to stay on your side and think oh well its tough if they don't have enough room on their side, I can claim of the insurance because they have taken some of my road, is that going to satisfy you when you put your child in a coffin because you didnt show due care and attention even though you saw the bend in good time.
And if you think it's just car drivers you are wrong, the speed at which I have seen truck drivers take the twisty country lanes is frightening, showing no preperation for another large vehicle coming the other way, and what makes it worse is they know a large vehicle will need some of their road, but apparently do not give a fig.
I am particularly critical of drivers and children,why is it so hard for drivers to look to the pavement/middle island, and providing it is safe to do so, just stop to let them cross from the island in the middle to the pavement, whenever I see children in a dangerious situation I always let them continue safely, much to the annoyance of others, now you are saying but they are safe there ( they are not ), have you ever seen those bollards completely stop a vehicle, the asnwer is no, they will go over the first one and settle on the second one, and thats just in a car.
The roads have changed, driving has changed, and you have to change with it if you still want to consider yourself a good driver. Previous performance is no guarantee of future performance, and be honest with yourself and know when its time to get a bus pass, for everyones sake.
I`m critical of so called profesional drivers who preach to others about their driving, when you get behind them they are the worst drivers of all. I`ve been behind a couple I know and they are terrible drivers on their own. so I wont be taking advice from a pro!
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ok it is going to happen that learner drivers will be allowed on our motorways, however it must be with a duel control vehicle and only with a qualified instructor from a driving school, who has booked the lesson.
I'm struggling with the idea of a duel control vehicle.......
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I'm struggling with the idea of a duel control vehicle.......
Indeed, you wouldn't want to cross swords with the driver of such a vehicle.
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Yet another report of motorists stranded for hours on end in the freezing cold because the authorities allow unsuitably equipped HGVs onto snowy M-ways. It doesn't happed in hilly southern Europe, why should it happen here?
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Yet another report of motorists stranded for hours on end in the freezing cold because the authorities allow unsuitably equipped HGVs onto snowy M-ways. It doesn't happed in hilly southern Europe, why should it happen here?
Neither Shap nor Beattock sections of M6/M74 have snow-gates but it's not difficult for the police or Highways Agency to shut a section if appropriate - both Drumochter and Slochd on the A9 have snow-gates which are closed when neccessary but they're higher than Shap/Beattock.
Humza Yousaf, Scottish Minister for Transport seems to have a case to answer.
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Yet another report of motorists stranded for hours on end in the freezing cold because the authorities allow unsuitably equipped HGVs onto snowy M-ways. It doesn't happed in hilly southern Europe, why should it happen here?
Are you suggesting that there would be no problems on the M74 if it was only used by cars during the severe weather John? I worked for a company that used to do interdepot night trunking between Wakefield and Moss End, during the winter the HGV drivers were told to take full night out kit with them as it used to happen just as much back then and that was over 20 years ago. That company had mostly new trucks and they always had tyre tread you could fall down.
The difference between a fool running out of petrol and a HGV driver getting stuck in snow is that one can be foreseen with little thought and the other not always so.
Anyone who goes on a motorway with less than the amount of fuel required plus a healthy margin for unknown events is deserving of a fine.
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Yet another report of motorists stranded for hours on end in the freezing cold because the authorities allow unsuitably equipped HGVs onto snowy M-ways. It doesn't happed in hilly southern Europe, why should it happen here?
Are you suggesting that there would be no problems on the M74 if it was only used by cars during the severe weather John? I worked for a company that used to do interdepot night trunking between Wakefield and Moss End, during the winter the HGV drivers were told to take full night out kit with them
No, but if there was a snow gate at the beginning they could wait on the inner lane/hard shoulder until the plough/gritters followed by only 4x4s had dealt with it. As things stand, the gritters can't deal with it because of stationary traffic. And regular users of well known snowy hills in bad weather should carry and be able to deploy chains.
The difference between a fool running out of petrol and a HGV driver getting stuck in snow is that one can be foreseen with little thought and the other not always so.
But it is barn-door obvious that in blizzard conditions, which in this country usually only last a short time, slick-tyred HGVs will get stuck on the well known hilly bits which should have such controls like they do elsewhere (I recently drove across the Rockies where they really do have snow - and lots of 'semis' ) and effectively block the road for all others, including gritters. The Highway Authority is pathetically incompetent, bleating 'oh....it doesn't happen sufficiently often to do anything.......'.
Edited by John F on 18/01/2018 at 12:37
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Having driven to work this morning through Durham/Sunderland to Tyneside it became blindingly obvious which councils had done something about the snow.
In Durham - main roads and dual carriagways blocked/single lanes of two tracks in the snow - but when you hit the county border with Sunderland there was literally a line where the two lanes had been gritted and ploughed and were fully usuable.
Durham council have always been next to useless when it comes to gritting but it really highlighted it today!
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