Honda Civic - Please help me choose a Honda Civic -Your opinions - eustace

After much analysis and thinking, I've sort of settled on buying a Honda Civic, 9th Generation car (post 2012). This will be the second car in the household.

We will be retaining our existing 2008 Focus, that has done just 60,000 miles and I have had that car for the last 7 years. And hope to keep it going as long as it lasts.

My budget for this purchase, is hopefully under £7000.

Please can you offer your thoughts as to which of these listings on AutoTrader, offer the best value?

www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search?sort=price-asc&...n

autotrader

Is it the 2 private ads, though they don't seem to be significantly cheaper compared to the rest? One is a very low mileage car. Would it be sensible to consider the low mileage 62 plate private one, or the 63 plate dealer listed cars, but with higher mileage?

My own mileage would be perhaps 8000, maximum of 10,000 per year. I hope to keep the car long term. At least 7 / 8 years, perhaps much longer.

All thoughts / opinions / advice appreciated...

Honda Civic - Please help me choose a Honda Civic -Your opinions - badbusdriver

Without seeing the cars in the flesh or looking up mot histories, it's hard to recommend one over any other. But rest assured that the civic 1.8 petrol is a very good, and very reliable car. It is exactly the kind of thing that the forums resident motor trader SLO suggests on a very regular basis!. Naturally aspirated petrol engine, manual gearbox, and it's a honda. So you can't do much more to ensure long term reliability. None of those cars have particularly high mileage, so assuming the service history is full and proper, there is nothing much to worry about. In addition, the civic is one of the most spacious cars in its class. Rear visibility is often criticised (due to the rear window arrangement), but if you like the looks of the car, that's about the extent of any problems.

I'm guessing someone will be looking at mot histories, but until/unless something crops up there, my advice would be to go and see a couple of the closest ones to you.

Honda Civic - Please help me choose a Honda Civic -Your opinions - eustace

The MOT hostories of most of these cars are fine, as they are still relatively new (under 5 years old).

I was hoping for some feedback on; what age / mileage combination offers the best value, private vs dealer, potential dealer integrity, etc.

Honda Civic - Please help me choose a Honda Civic -Your opinions - bazza

I've just replaced my troublesome Octavia 1.9 with one, a 12 reg 1.8 manual. I'm delighted with it so far. It had a full history but due to its very low mileage, I serviced all the brakes, and changed the stop/start battery which I suspected was past its best. Underneath it's more or less like new, so I've just oversprayed with oil/waxoyl.

The rear visibility is different at first but after 3 months, I don't even think about it. The door mirrors are very good and reversing is no problem. Practicality is excellent, helped by versatile rear seats that flip up. There's no spare wheel, but I've purchased a used one, Honda Accord ones fit if you check sizes.

Gearbox, clutch are the best I've had, as is switchgear, as I said, it's in a different league to my previous car. I'm averaging 50 mpg measured over 2500 miles, driven normally. I expect that to drop slightly going into winter but should see well over 40 mpg average. The trip computer is almost spot on accurate. Many reviews suggest it needs to be revved for rapid progress, I find that it's happy to trickle at 1100 rpm in 4th, 5th and even 6th, real power needs a good 3000 rpm on the clock, no hardship with such a delightful gearbox,So far, I can only recommend.

Honda Civic - Please help me choose a Honda Civic -Your opinions - Ian D
As they are private sales, as well as the usual physical checks make sure you do an HPI check to check for major accidents/outstanding finance etc
Honda Civic - Please help me choose a Honda Civic -Your opinions - SLO76
A good choice. Not much to worry about on these but check for poor quality paint repairs (very common at backstreet dealers) and look for fake service histories (again very common at smaller used dealers) also check for clutch judder when cold and watch for slip. It's often older drivers who own these and many are hard on clutches.

Ask to hear it start from stone cold. When you turn up to view it grab the keys and pop the bonnet to feel if there's any heat in the engine. If there is then they've started it and warmed it up to hide something, most likely clutch judder on one of these. Listen also for rattling timing chains when starting from cold, this is very uncommon on these even on abused examples. Clutch issues and chain problems are very rare on the petrols, 99% of them relate to the 2.2 diesel.

As for the cars I'd favour from your list, well the safe bet is the approved used 1.8 ES at the Honda main dealer for £7495. It's too old to be bought in stock so it'll be a part ex that someone has liked enough to buy another one plus you'll get a Honda warranty, likely 12mths with it. Negotiate hard and you should get it close to if not dead on your £7k budget.

I'd also take a look at the low mileage private sale car. It's heavily overpriced for a private sale but it's has a full Honda history and low mileage plus you get to meet the last owner face to face instead of listening a salesmans bull about "just one old lady owner" etc etc. There are risks in this however and you must know what you're doing or take someone with you who does. You need to HPI it to see if there's outstanding finance or if it's been written off or stolen. Make sure you use both the reg no and chassis no or the HPI guarantee is void.

Look at the V5 and make sure the yellow trade section is there, accept no excuses, if it's missing then the seller is a fly trader trying to duck his legal obligations and the car is probably hiding faults too. The price needs to factor in the risk level too so it's at least £1,000 overpriced. As a trade in they'd get between £5 & £5.5k so anything over £6,000 is a win for them. If the car checks out offer no more than £6,200 and leave them to stew.
Honda Civic - Please help me choose a Honda Civic -Your opinions - eustace

Thanks SLO76! Great advice from you, as usual. I was really hoping that you would have time to take a look at this and reply.

What are your thoughts on the second private sale car advertised?

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201709189414413?sort=price-asc&annual-tax-cars=TO_185&quantity-of-doors=5&radius=1500&exclude-writeoff-categories=on&make=HONDA&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&advertising-location=at_cars&transmission=Manual&maximum-mileage=70000&price-to=7500&fuel-type=Petrol&minimum-badge-engine-size=1.8&model=CIVIC&postcode=rh20rn&year-from=2012&page=1

I am assuming, this is quite overpriced for a private sale too. But is the higher spec, something worth considering?

I quite like the idea of having cruise control on the car. But going for rain sensing wipers etc., (whichh are included in this spec), seems to much electronics, with chances of things going wrong, over long term ownership....

Edited by eustace on 05/10/2017 at 12:26

Honda Civic - Please help me choose a Honda Civic -Your opinions - RobJP

Just to say, I've never seen rain sensing wipers where the sensor has failed, or heard of such a case. They are about as simple as 'high-tech' gets.

You might as well worry about the electric windows.

Honda Civic - Please help me choose a Honda Civic -Your opinions - eustace

Just to say, I've never seen rain sensing wipers where the sensor has failed, or heard of such a case. They are about as simple as 'high-tech' gets.

You might as well worry about the electric windows.

There are a bunch of complaints on the net, regarding this.

http://www.civicx.com/threads/is-there-any-way-to-turn-off-rain-sensing-wipers.2747/

http://www.civicx.com/threads/automatic-wipers-not-working.10488/

https://priuschat.com/threads/problems-with-rain-sensor-wipers.181138/

Why not keep things simple? Do we really need a sensor to tell us when it is raining? :-)

Honda Civic - Please help me choose a Honda Civic -Your opinions - bolt

Just to say, I've never seen rain sensing wipers where the sensor has failed, or heard of such a case. They are about as simple as 'high-tech' gets.

You might as well worry about the electric windows.

There are a bunch of complaints on the net, regarding this.

http://www.civicx.com/threads/is-there-any-way-to-turn-off-rain-sensing-wipers.2747/

http://www.civicx.com/threads/automatic-wipers-not-working.10488/

https://priuschat.com/threads/problems-with-rain-sensor-wipers.181138/

Why not keep things simple? Do we really need a sensor to tell us when it is raining? :-)

You do not need to keep them on Auto, I do as they work really well, you can use them manually, as far as im aware the only parts you cannot turn off is collision mitigation sensor, and brake assist which is imo usefull

Honda Civic - Please help me choose a Honda Civic -Your opinions - SLO76
I'd favour condition, history, price and mileage over spec myself. Reliability is the most important issue buying used and cruse control and auto wipers add no value at this age. The low mileage car would be a better buy assuming all things are equal, I certainly wouldn't say it was worth 20,000 extra miles for a few toys.

Edited by SLO76 on 05/10/2017 at 13:52

Honda Civic - Please help me choose a Honda Civic -Your opinions - sandy56

We have run a 2010 Civic 1.8 petrol for three years and no problems. Buy one in good clean condition with a service history.

Honda Civic - Please help me choose a Honda Civic -Your opinions - Snakey

I would make sure you check the door pillars and the boot hinges for rust - my 2012 Civic had rust beginning in those areas when the car was less than 3 years old and Honda didn't want to know. Check out some of the Civic owners forums as I wasn't alone in this.

Honda Civic - Please help me choose a Honda Civic -Your opinions - catsdad
I have a 2012 petrol 1.8 bought used in 2013.

It had a few faults on delivery that the dealer failed to detect despite its being Honda approved. Bonnet psint had marks caused by the original transit film, seat belt detectors didn't work on rear seats and the off-side Magic seat wouldn't stay up. I've since read that this last one is a relatively common fault, especially on that side. These faults were remedied free by the dealer but shows how weak their presale checks were. So don't rely on them.

Since then and up to 51k miles, all its needed has been rear brake pads and tyres. Pads seem to a Honda weak point. So its worth checking and negotiating on price if they are low.

Another thing to check is whether its on fixed or variable servicing. The variable version can recommend a non-oil service only to flag up an oil service a few weeks later or vice versa. I had mine switched off by the dealer and reverted to annual / 10k. This service switch makes the service book a bit hard to follow. Not a big issue but under the pressure of buying its worth sitting down and reading it through carefully to ensure it really is complete.

Its a great car to drive. Pootle along at low revs and it will not pull the proverbial skin off a rice pudding but floor it to 3000 and beyond and it will fly. In mixed but non-urban motoring I get mid 40's mpg. I've had over 50 mpg driving at indicated 70 mph on a long motorway trip but thats exceptional.

As for the auto wipers these are the best I've ever had. They seem to read my mind! The engine stop/start only operates when the battery is fully charged so its not necessarily a worry if its not working initially.

Rear visibility is often criticised but I find the mirrors totally eliminate the over the shoulder blindspot and mine has a reversing camera. The ES has the camera as standard. It does get smeared in winter so given the choice I'd have an audible system.

One oddity is that the computer doesn't allow switching beteeen mph and range without stopping the car. Doesn't bother me but it might annoy some people.

Overall its been a very good car and I intend keeping mine for a while longer. Good luck in finding one to suit you.
Honda Civic - Please help me choose a Honda Civic -Your opinions - eustace

The comment abive from snakey, regarding rust on his Civic is worrisome.

I initially thought it was oneoff, some thing which exceptionally happens in most model of cars.

But reading more of it on the Internet indiactes that the problem is widespread on both Gen 8 and Gen 9 civics.

Gen 8 Civic

Looks like there is a potential trouble spot under the rubber seal on top of the windscreen.

http://www.civinfo.com/forum/bugs-faults-irritations/81264-rusty-roof-honda-recall-53.html

There is a 59 page thread about it, on the Civic blog.

Hoinda had issued a recall regarding this back in 2007

http://www.civinfo.com/forum/bugs-faults-irritations/4589-new-recall-inspection.html.

However a different rubber seal seems to have been installed only from Feb 2011 manufactured cars.

Apparently there is a 6 year extended warranty regarding this, but generally only applied to cars with a full Honda service history.

other Gen 8 rust threads:-

http://www.civinfo.com/forum/bugs-faults-irritations/203817-door-rust.html

http://www.civinfo.com/forum/9g-general-discussion/356378-thoughts-9th-gen-civic.html

Gen 9 Civic

gen 9 Civic, also seem to have rust issues, as posted by Snakey.

http://www.civinfo.com/forum/bugs-faults-irritations-9g/172785-door-seams.html

http://www.civinfo.com/forum/9g-general-discussion/300361-ugh-internal-rust.html

The above thread is a piece d' resistance, where one of the posters compares the amount of rust on the 9th Gen Civic, as similar to the rust issues on the eary Dacia Duster.

As a result, I'm seriously rethinking the decision to buy a Civic.

Problem is there hardly seem to be any brands / models without issues.

Looks like I might try bangernomics. So wont regret spending too much on whatever I buy, if it turns out to have issues...:-(

Honda Civic - Please help me choose a Honda Civic -Your opinions - Nomag

Why not look at 2012 Kias which will still have 2 yrs manufacturers warranty provided under 100 miles with FMDSH? I'm not sure about petrol but the diesels are chain cam. My 2011 Hyundai has the feel of a 1990s Toyota...not much soft touch stuff inside but the mechanical bits just feel well engineered and at 75k miles the only non routine servicing has been to replace a propshaft bearing under warranty.

Honda Civic - Please help me choose a Honda Civic -Your opinions - eustace

Well, the 2012 Kias / Hyundais have GDI engines. The jury seems to be out on their long term reliability.

Also, I understand that these cars too are quite prone to underbody corrosion...

Honda Civic - Please help me choose a Honda Civic -Your opinions - Avant

Every car has its faults, and remember that satisfied owners don't post on their make's forums nearly as often as dissatisfied ones.

All we can say from experience is that if you're buying used, Japanese and petrol-powered seems to be the way to go if reliability is the top priority. The advantage of the Civic 1.8 is that it has a bit more zing than the Auris 1.6 and Mazda 3 1.6.

Honda Civic - Please help me choose a Honda Civic -Your opinions - eustace

Thanks, Avant! Understand your point. But reliability is the top priority for me.

I'm trying to avoid makes that seem to have inherent problems. Can ignore one off ones though.

I'm veering towards the post 2013 1.6 Auris, now.

Honda Civic - Please help me choose a Honda Civic -Your opinions - SLO76
Relax... Seems minor corrosion around joins on some cars but I wouldn't be too concerned, I've certainly not noticed it on anything I've looked at or sold. Look at the number of older 8th gen cars on the road (now 11yrs old) in very good order. Rot isn't an issue, even if you get some minor corrosion the body and underside both resist rot very well. Civics are actually one of the better cars at holding off rot, again the best way to gauge a cars durability is to look at how many older examples are still on our roads and even up here in Scotland with our nonstop rain and heavily salted roads on winter there's loads of 15yr old plus Civics still running around. Buy with a full Honda history and the firm may assist with corrosion if it's noticeable and premature but I don't put much faith in bodywork warranties, most have more holes in them than a 90's Merc. Carefully inspec any you look at, I'm sure you'll find nothing.
Honda Civic - Please help me choose a Honda Civic -Your opinions - bazza

I thought I was a worrier Eustace but you knock me into the long grass! Don't forget that a small number of minor faults easily become magnified on the internet, because hardly anyone will post that their car is not rusting and is fine! People post the bad but not the good. If it's any help, there's not a spot of rust on my 12 reg 9th gen, and I can tell you it's not been cossetted , the previous owner ( my relative) had to park on a street for 5 years and picked up a few scrapes too. It was washed only infrequently.

The only cars I've noticed rust on are old Mercs, Seats and the Mk 5 Golf front wings. I've heard the original Ford Ka was suspect too.

I also looked at Auris, as we have an old Corolla which is now 13 years old - no rust! It's a fine car but quite dull. The hatch is nowhere near as practical and spacious as the Civic but if you can find a nice 1.6 estate, it would make a fine choice. It's basically the same as our old Corolla, the 1.6 vvti, it's bombproof but a little unispiring to drive. However it gets the job done, nothing will fall off it and everything will still work on it in 10 years time!

Honda Civic - Please help me choose a Honda Civic -Your opinions - bolt

theres a lot of 8th gen Civics on the Isle of wight (near the sea)and None ive seen have any rust on, in fact ive not seen one with a dent in it yet, paint scratches yes but no dents

Honda Civic - Please help me choose a Honda Civic -Your opinions - eustace

Thanks, SLO76 & Bazza.

That's more reassuring. I guess I am behaving quite paranoid about this. :-)

I would really prefer an engine bigger than 1.6, for a change from my Focus. Hence one of the major reasons for wanting the Civic. Actually, I would have preferred the Avensis, except for the EPB issues.

Would you recomment the 9th Gen Civic over the 8th Gen?

I can see that 2011 plate 8th Gen civic with around 60K miles are available for around £5k.

Is it worth paying £1.5 - 2K extra for the 9th Gen, given that essdentially it is the same engine? I know there have been improvements in ride / suspension, etc.

Honda Civic - Please help me choose a Honda Civic -Your opinions - Snakey

Going back to my post regarding rust, I should have also said in general I liked the car, I just didn't regard it as a long term keeper with the rust developing.

Honda's attitude was pretty dire really - on my car the rust had taken all the paint off the boot hinges, and was spreading. That was only going to get worse and they fobbed me off with comments like 'its only surface rust' However I don't expect the paint to have peeled off showing the rusted bare metal on a 26 month old car!

That aside, I did like the comfortable interior and the modern dash. The engine is nice and revvy but not very torquey - horses for courses though, diesel drivers would hate the engine but petrol heads would love it!

Honda Civic - Please help me choose a Honda Civic -Your opinions - bolt

Personally I think 9th gen is the better car though I have the diesel of which the economy has improved over the 21 months I've had it. But if I had to go back to the 8th gen I would without hesitation

But that's me....

Honda Civic - Please help me choose a Honda Civic -Your opinions - SLO76
The 9th gen is a better built car which rides better and has greater high speed stability and refinement. Economy is also marginally better too and safety is a step up also. The 8th gen is also now dropping in value faster as it becomes increasingly dated so you'll recoup part of that extra outlay at the other end. I'd go for the later car.
Honda Civic - Please help me choose a Honda Civic -Your opinions - SLO76
Regarding the Avensis EPB, I agree that it's an idiotic idea for any manufacturer to fit to a car, a complex solution to a problem that never existed in the first place and also that problems are fairly common as with any car fitted with this daft bit of tech. But it's far fr a deal killer in my eyes.

It's not as trouble prone as the system fitted to the VW Passat for example and most owners never see any hassle. The rest of the car is largely bombproof plus these are great value used. Get an approved used car from aToyota dealer and remember that at this age it's highly possible that any issues have already been sorted. I spotted this nice high spec low miler estate near you. The estate is an easy sell later on with strong demand for cheap Toyota estates. The Civic is nicer to drive and better on fuel but these are comfy and robust big family wagons. Auto Trader:

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20171003990...7

Edited by SLO76 on 06/10/2017 at 12:32

Honda Civic - Please help me choose a Honda Civic -Your opinions - eustace

Many thanks for your inputs,SLO76!

However the issue with the Avensis EPB seems to be a inherent design issue.

See below article:-

http://www.surreyelectronics.com/leaflets/TOYOTA%20AVENSIS%20ELECTRONIC%20PARKING%20BRAKE%20SYSTEM.pdf

Looks like they may have fixed it, post 2014.

I wouldn't have the confidence, to chance an earlier Avensis.

But the fix may be of interest to GordonBenett, who was otherwise considering buying a new Avensis! :-)

Edited by eustace on 06/10/2017 at 13:40

Honda Civic - Please help me choose a Honda Civic -Your opinions - SLO76
Sadly there's a much greater fear on the later Avensis if you want diesel, they use a BMW motor that's notorious for timing chain issues.

As for the EPB from what I'm reading it seems more common on cars which cover limited mileages. The majority of people I know who own these do heavy mileages, two are taxis with high six figure mileages and none have complained about this. I'd still be happy to buy one myself, in fact it's on the list to replace our CRV next year when I switch back to buying used from leasing new.

In fact speaking of which I'm sat in our local Honda dealer right now waiting on hierarchy's CRV being serviced and I'm horrified by the sticker prices on new cars. £17k for a Honda Jazz!!! The monthly payments on a PCP are higher than I'm paying on a CRV 1.6 DTEC SE-T. Who is buying new cars? I certainly won't be doing it again, there's no way I'll get close to the deal I got last time.

I was in the VW dealer the other day for a minor issue with our Polo too and a new Golf 1.4 was £21,500!!! A great car but buy one on the 4.9% APR finance they're offering and you'll lose a fortune by year three when the used market knocks a dose of reality in that price. Used is most definitely the way to go. Our Polo cost me £7k two years ago and will do anything this Golf will yet I've lost £2k at worst not the £12k the Golf buyer will haemorrhage over the same period.
 

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