Any - Cars to avoid buying - Steveieb

Which magazine publish their best buys and also their dont buys.

The dont buys include the Dacia Duster and Ford Mustang in view of their poor safety features.

But SLO often mentions that he would not buy a car with Multitronics gearboxes such as DSGs and Powershift.

So what are the other No Go s that we would put on the shortlist?

Any - Cars to avoid buying - RobJP

I don't think it's as simple as that.

For example, I run a diesel BMW. Yes, I know the timing chains are a potential weakness. But I also (from my work) am of a professional opinion that a lot of those problems are due to poor/infrequent servicing, and that BMW's standard 18k oil changes are far too infrequent. So I get the oil and filter changed every 9k miles. I've also taken the full BMW extended warranty, so if anything does go BANG then it's all going to be fixed by BMW at no cost to me.

'Argybargy' on here has a Ford powershift gearbox in a car. It's currently got problems, but he's running it under warranty too. Once fixed, he's stated he's likely to get rid before the warranty runs out. I suppose, if he wanted, he could enquire with Ford about the costs of extending the warranty on his car too.

So in both of those cases, we're mitigating or eliminating the risks that we know exist.

The problems come when people are buying those horribly expensive, prone-to-failure units at 6+ years old, when they've had poor maintenance (or no maintenance), and people don't do the research and know something about the potential pitfalls.

So, in one case (and the recent thread from the lady with the SEAT Leon DSG is a classic example) she'd bought the car, done no research at all, had no idea about DSG gearboxes (or t seemed, even what they were compared to TC or CVT gearboxes), and was seemingly oblivious. Hence virtually all of us, when the car had other problems and she was offererd a full refund, begging her to get rid of it.

She might have no problems at all. But if a trader's policy is simply one of "I wouldn't touch them out of warranty, too many problems to bite me on the backside", then it says a great deal.

Any - Cars to avoid buying - oldroverboy.

Personal shortlist.

No DSG or any variant of it.

Nothing French or italian, so including jeep/chrysler or nissan.

No diesel as unsuitable.

No jaguar/landrover products as after warranty there is no help with the electrical gremlins

Nothing german or variants of as over priced and underengineered nowadays.

Absolutely nothing outside of manufacturers warranty..

which leaves me with my Kia Venga with 4 and a half years warranty remaining with a nice unstressed 4 cylinder engine and manual gearbox.

Any - Cars to avoid buying - expat

>>Nothing French or italian, so including jeep/chrysler or nissan.

Add Mitsubishi to that list. They are now owned 35% by Renault/Nissan so all new models will use common parts from Renault/Nissan. The older ones are fine though.

Any - Cars to avoid buying - gordonbennet

Blimey how long have you got :-)

Within reason ncap safety ratings don't make much (any) odds in our choices, others its very important to, each of us are entitled to our choices.

My lines in the sand in no particular order are...engines lacking low speed torque, electric parking brakes, robotised manual gearboxes no matter how many clutches they have, keyless go, Diesels with DPF, stop start and automatic wipers lights etc unless they can be permanently disabled, DRL's, and the main one all external bulbs must be able to be changed with simple tools within a few minutes at most with all bulbs available at sensible prices, no built in leds such as JagXF front indicators where a failed unit will see a new headlamp at around £1000.

Edited by gordonbennet on 03/10/2017 at 13:01

Any - Cars to avoid buying - pd

There are some people here who will never be buying another car with some of the no nos..........

:)

Any - Cars to avoid buying - Gibbo_Wirral

There are some people here who will never be buying another car with some of the no nos..........

:)

Exactly! I always take their advice with a pinch of salt:

Probably because they've once bought a lemon, neglected by the previous owner, but feel they need to tell all and sundry to avoid the entire marque.

Any - Cars to avoid buying - argybargy

Yes, I'm the mug who, despite advice to the contrary, bought the Powershift.

Its an odd situation in some ways, because the B Max itself, and the other Ford variants which have that box are by and large excellent cars ruined by a rather silly experiment which has caught more than one manufacturer with their pants down. Oddly enough I don't regret buying it, because although it cost me money to buy, the extended warranty means that someone else will hopefully pay to make it into a very good car between now and next June.

Its in the garage today and I have a 56 plate Nissan Note auto loan car for comparison. Sharp off the mark, but the rev counter dances all over the place as you're driving, unlike the B Max which, when its working, is smooth as silk. Perhaps its just had a hard time.

I'm not sufficiently knowledgeable to give an informed view about which cars to avoid, but I'd concur with the above and say any auto box which is really a manual, and anything that gets a bad time from the regular contributors to this forum. Stick around, rather than relying on this thread alone and you'll soon find out which ones they are. ;0)

Edited by argybargy on 03/10/2017 at 13:43

Any - Cars to avoid buying - SLO76
While I wouldn't normally recommend an automated manual box to anyone I can understand why someone would buy or lease one new then offload before the warranty is up. VAG's DSG box in particular is a smooth operator when it's working properly and it's very efficient with no fuel penalty over the manual. I would however place it very much on the don't list if you were buying used however along with Ford's Powershift.

As for a fixed list of do's and don'ts well that's all down to budget. If you're spending £3,000 the list would be long with the basic emphasis on keeping things as simple as possible. Avoid turbocharged engines, automated manuals, some CVT's, most diesels and prestige brands. You haven't the budget for a complex car so reign in your ambitions. This is my typical stock price point and thus I have to know the risks of what I'm buying and selling.

However, if you're spending £15k and have the funds and the willingness to spend the right money on proper maintenance then I'm happy to recommend a modern diesel exec or a complex turbocharged hot hatch etc etc. Much of it is down to funds.

Plus it's hard to just eliminate any particular brand. Most have built reliable and unreliable cars. Ford being a fine example, with Yamaha and Mazda engines petrol models generally utterly reliable but PSA 1.6 diesels and Fords own 1.0 Ecoboost miserably weak in the longterm.

Peugeot, Renault and Fiat are the same. Some good, some terrible. Even the Japanese get it wrong sometimes particularly with Diesel engines, Mazda in particular and Toyota/Lexus 2.2d's and 1.4d. You have to do a little homework on any car you're interested in and asking those who sell them (but not the one trying to sell the particular car to you) and repair them is a good bet.
Any - Cars to avoid buying - SkodaIan

For me it's any car with some new 'market leading' feature or innovation. The first generation of electric parking brakes were dire, but now it's no longer a feature which would put me off.

Similarly, everyone was really worried about dual mass flywheels failing early about 10 years ago but they seem a lot better now with most getting past 100k miles with no problems.

On current cars, I think it would be the 'driving aid' features such as adaptive cruise control and collision avoidance systems. My limited experience of both on nearly new hire cars is that their operation is erratic and gets it wrong more often than getting it right.

Two complete lines in the sand for me at the moment though are diamond cut alloy wheels and touch screen controlled heaters.

Any - Cars to avoid buying - JEREMYH

I wonder how many of these magazines and reveiw sites have to support the people that put revenue their way

There is absolutly nothing wrong with the Dacia Duster it might be a bit old school but thats all

If a 40 tonnes truck hits your from behind at 60 MPH NCAP wont be doing you too many favours in any car !

Any - Cars to avoid buying - Engineer Andy

Personally speaking, I find its a bit unfair for Which and some of the motoring press to castigate manufacturers who don't achieve five star ratings for their cars - many of the latest features are, in my view, installed in cars to either help save the lives of idiots who don't look where they're going and walk into the road, or are incapcable of doing so and aren't supervised, or for drivers who's attention wanders when it shouldn't. In some ways, they actually (to me, anyway) encourage worse driving, as people start to rely on gizmos to stop them having accidents. To me, its been very noticeable over my years of driving how much faster people now drive, particularly in poor waether, probably because they think ABS, TC and SC will save them if needs be. Better driving standards would see a HUGE drop in accidents, and as a result, deaths and serious injuries.

Are such media outlets saying that ANY car that doesn't have such modern safety features should be banned - No. Many of these features add large sums to the build costs of the cars, often pushing people on a budget towards older cars precisely WITH less safety features, which to me seems daft. I do recall someone here saying that NCAP base their score on that achieved by the base model, which often is the lowest selling variant and thus not representative of the car - I would suspect that insurers take into account the extra saefty features of the middle and higher end models when deciding which grouping it will fall into.

Those cars Which listed aren't terrible cars in terms of safety, but fair-to-average in today's terms and a little better if compared to 11yo cars like mine that scored a 4star rating under the old system.

I agree with most other posters that a 'bad car' is very subjective - its often specific features of the car that make it bad (very dependent upon age and how its been previously looked after), and often very poor customer service that makes the ownership experience all the worse.

The only real way we can compare the latest cars to those from, say 10 - 15 years ago is for NCAP to make a comparison table, and for government figures for accident rates (for all different types of accidents and injuries sustained [not just death rates, as medicine improves and result in less fatalities and more full recoveries from serious injuries) to be available for all to see.

Any - Cars to avoid buying - Finguz

www.youtube.com/user/AutoExpertTV

That guy is obviously based in Australia, but he recommends avoiding the same cars that most on these forums do.

He really hates Ford and VAG with a passion too ;)

Edited by Finguz on 03/10/2017 at 17:32

Any - Cars to avoid buying - Engineer Andy

www.youtube.com/user/AutoExpertTV

That guy is obviously based in Australia, but he recommends avoiding the same cars that most on these forums do.

He really hates Ford and VAG with a passion too ;)

Good ol' John Cadogan. He hates Holden (GM's equaivalent of Vauxhall [well, until PSA bought it] in Oz) even more. To be honest, he doesn't 'hate' Ford and VAG cars per se, but he is scathing about both's poor reliability (especially their DSG and powershift gearboxes - he actually highly rates the cars in terms on performance, handling, ride, etc) and customer service.

I can understand why, as unlike in the UK, where most people can get toa garage (at the very least) and preferably a main dealership relatively easily, in a country as large as 'Stralia (his term) with large distances from communities to them and lots of arid outback, people need dependable vehicles and manufacturers who look after their customers.

Any - Cars to avoid buying - Steveieb
All the usual suspects including the LR Discovery 2004 - 17 , are on the list I referred to in the original post but the ones that surprised me were the Fiat 500 and the new Ford KA which are essentially the same car.
And the Smart four two and yes one Toyota , the Urban Cruiser which sold in small numbers.
Surprisingly Suzuki get four nominations which is unusual for this acclaimed marque.
Any - Cars to avoid buying - carl233

Maybe best to avoid the 1.0 Ecoboost unit especially those with fitted DMF's if you want to keep the vehicle for the longer term. No way are these units capable of covering the same miles as the Sigma Zetec-S (Yamaha) unit or Mazda Duratec units. Not likely to cover a quarter of the miles that the robust now discontinued Zetec-E unit could. The unit might be fine for the indebted short term 3 year PCP brigade but of little use to the long-term buyer that wants to actually own and keep vehicle for the long term.

Any - Cars to avoid buying - Avant

"I can understand why, as unlike in the UK, where most people can get toa garage (at the very least) and preferably a main dealership relatively easily, in a country as large as 'Stralia (his term) with large distances from communities to them and lots of arid outback, people need dependable vehicles and manufacturers who look after their customers."

There was a story of someone living in the outback in the days when cars needed servicing every 1,000 miles. This guy bought a new car, but lived 500 miles from the nearest garage.

He soon learned to service his car himself.

Any - Cars to avoid buying - colinh

This looks like one to avoid:

www.autoexpress.co.uk/nissan/101209/nissans-sweat-...s

Checked it wasn't 1st April

Any - Cars to avoid buying - colinh

"...when cars needed servicing every 1,000 miles..."

Takes me back to American cars in Kuwait during the '70s - if you didn't change the oil to get rid of the sand, the engine was gone within 12/18 months

Any - Cars to avoid buying - galileo

"I can understand why, as unlike in the UK, where most people can get toa garage (at the very least) and preferably a main dealership relatively easily, in a country as large as 'Stralia (his term) with large distances from communities to them and lots of arid outback, people need dependable vehicles and manufacturers who look after their customers."

There was a story of someone living in the outback in the days when cars needed servicing every 1,000 miles. This guy bought a new car, but lived 500 miles from the nearest garage.

He soon learned to service his car himself.

I still have a handbook for the 1947-1952 A40 Austin Devon (my second car in 1961). Recommends oil change (engine,gearbox and rear axle) on a new car after 500 miles, thereafter every 2000 miles.for engine, 5000 for gearbox and axle. Also recommends weekly greasing of 15 points on the chassis.

I must admit that I didn't keep to this schedule, I suspect few owners did.

Any - Cars to avoid buying - madf

"I can understand why, as unlike in the UK, where most people can get toa garage (at the very least) and preferably a main dealership relatively easily, in a country as large as 'Stralia (his term) with large distances from communities to them and lots of arid outback, people need dependable vehicles and manufacturers who look after their customers."

There was a story of someone living in the outback in the days when cars needed servicing every 1,000 miles. This guy bought a new car, but lived 500 miles from the nearest garage.

He soon learned to service his car himself.

I still have a handbook for the 1947-1952 A40 Austin Devon (my second car in 1961). Recommends oil change (engine,gearbox and rear axle) on a new car after 500 miles, thereafter every 2000 miles.for engine, 5000 for gearbox and axle. Also recommends weekly greasing of 15 points on the chassis.

I must admit that I didn't keep to this schedule, I suspect few owners did.

My 1946 Rover 16 had Luvax Bijur auto chassis lubrication. Oil reservoir, vacuum pump and meters and meters of copper piping and little control valves. And dirt and the valves blocked up. Oil changes 1,000 miles. No oil filter. I did 30k miles trouble free apart from cylinder head valves, steering and LOTS of axle tramp (scary). Brakes - rod - tended to fade.

They don't make them like they used -thanks goodness

Any - Cars to avoid buying - concrete

Which magazine publish their best buys and also their dont buys.

The dont buys include the Dacia Duster and Ford Mustang in view of their poor safety features.

But SLO often mentions that he would not buy a car with Multitronics gearboxes such as DSGs and Powershift.

So what are the other No Go s that we would put on the shortlist?

Very difficult to be explicit. I have had most makes since passing my driving test in 1967. Very few have been lemons. Admitedly company cars do come with the comfort of free maintainance and repairs, but very few have let me down. Not had a Ford or Vauxhall for quite some time but I found them ok for the job in hand. I even had a good Marina and a Montego too. But hte best by far were Honda Accords. Brilliant. I can't remember one instance of failure or repairs, just routine servicing. Then we went diesel. Even then I soon adapted my driving style and in the end prefered them. Peugeot, Renault, Toyota, VW, Skoda. Some had minor problems but on the whole were fine. The one thing I noticed was that I never went for an absolutely brand new model. Always the model that had been out for some years and had the teething faults eradicated. Soemtimes you go by gut feeling that a car looks and drives right with a FSH and a dealer warranty chances are you will be fine.

It's a lottery after all. Cheers Concrete

Any - Cars to avoid buying - Andrew-T

<< The one thing I noticed was that I never went for an absolutely brand new model. Always the model that had been out for some years and had the teething faults eradicated. >>

That's been my basic mantra for 50 years or more. A couple of years after launch is a reasonable time to allow for debugging and for initial hype to be replaced by a balanced opinion; then another couple for used values to settle to a comfortable level .... :-)

Any - Cars to avoid buying - coopshere
We now live in a technological age where people buy gadgets for their supposed kudos or image. The gadget is only as good as people perceive it to be and will only last as long as it is in vogue. Sadly modern cars now fall into this criteria. Yes a new car, of whatever marque, will usually last as long as the manufacturers warranty but when out of warranty it's buyer beware. However this caveat can seemingly often relate to cars that are still in warranty and the more expensive (seen by some as the more desirable) marques are not immune to expensive failures. For the consumer using their own money for the purchase, whether new or previously enjoyed, the only safe advice can be research. By all means look at magazines but they do tend to pander to the modern gadget buyer rather than the long term reliability seeker. So having decided on a model you are interested in research the likes of this and other forums to see what the downsides of that model are.
Any - Cars to avoid buying - Avant

There's a strong case, when buying used, to go for a basic model rather than one with lots of electronic gadgetry. Engines and gearboxes (including torque-converter automatics) are generally pretty reliable nowadays: but the same can't be said for some of the electrinic gimmicks.

The French largely stay loyal to their own country's cars: that's because more of them buy the basic models and avoid the options that give French cars a bad name over here. As a race we British are too status-conscious and think we'll impress the neighbours with our upmarket variants, forgetting that only about 2% will actually notice and be able to tell.....(let's keep it polite) the first part of 'Titanium' from the second.

Any - Cars to avoid buying - Andrew-T

<< .... the same can't be said for some of the electrinic gimmicks. >>

That's a nice word, Avant - it suggests a certain level of tinniness .... :-)

Any - Cars to avoid buying - mss1tw

<< .... the same can't be said for some of the electrinic gimmicks. >>

That's a nice word, Avant - it suggests a certain level of tinniness .... :-)

I like the fact it suggests that something is intrinsic with the subject at hand.

Any - Cars to avoid buying - sandy56

Just sold my 7 year old Peugeot estate car, 2l diesel auto. It had all the toys, bar satnav, and which all worked. It was one of the best cars I have ever had, but I no longer wanted an estate. I hope it goes to a good home as it was well maintained in my ownership and good for another 100k.

Edited by sandy56 on 06/10/2017 at 20:56

Any - Cars to avoid buying - Steve Mugglestone

Modern cars are so complex you will be lucky if nothing goes wrong even with a well maintained car.

What is important is how Customer Service sorts out the problem. My last new car had a failed battery after 15months. A known problem with Fiam batterys according to the Qashqai Owners Club but after 3 visits to the dealer and 3 RAC call outs Nissan Customer Service would not agree to a replacement. The final straw was when my Wife was stranded 70 miles from home so I replaced the Battery at my own expense with no further problems. I crossed Nissan Customer Service off my Christmass Card list and bought a Lexus.

Any - Cars to avoid buying - gordonbennet
I crossed Nissan Customer Service off my Christmas Card list and bought a Lexus.

And that is how it should be done, voting with your wallet.

A battery would cost them around £50 nett, if that, as it is they've lost a customer who is also likely to inform others why he's now driving another make, that £50 saved doesn't look quite so clever now does it Nissan.

Any - Cars to avoid buying - focussed

"The French largely stay loyal to their own country's cars"

Not as much as you would think - granted 75 - 80 % of the cars in the supermarket car park on a saturday are the usual Peugeot-Citroen- Renault 's and Dacias etc but there are a lot of BMW's both old and newish, a fair sprinkling of Toyota's, Fords, Opels, Nissans Kia's Hyundais and the odd Mercedes and Suzuki,, all of these makes have local dealerships. The only Honda is usually mine, the nearest dealership is 40 km away. Surprisingly, there are quite a few old L200s about - our utility wagon.

Edited by focussed on 09/10/2017 at 00:23

Any - Cars to avoid buying - Gibbo_Wirral

Kobe Steel scandal hits Toyota and Nissan

www.ft.com/content/a1e494c2-ad9f-11e7-beba-5521c71...4

That and the number of airbag and brake recalls on Far Eastern cars over the past few years makes me wonder if they're as great as some of here keep saying they are.

Any - Cars to avoid buying - expat

Gibbbo_Wirral's link is paywalled. Here is the text:

"Boeing, Toyota, Nissan and other big companies are scrambling to check the safety of their products after it emerged they had been supplied with falsely certified metal from Kobe Steel in a deepening scandal that has dealt a fresh blow to confidence in industrial quality controls in Japan.

More than a fifth of the value of Japan’s third biggest steelmaker was wiped off after trading resumed in the company following its admission of falsifying inspection data on an estimated 20,000 tonnes of metals shipped to about 200 customers in the year to August 2017.

The steelmaker had sold metal with strength that did not match the quality standard it had promised its clients for use in products ranging from cars to aircraft. It warned at the weekend that the problems could stretch back 10 years.

It is the latest in a string of scandals highlighting wider concerns about inspection and quality control in Japan from wobbly building pilings at the construction arm of Asahi Kasei to overstated fuel economy at Mitsubishi Motors. The Kobe Steel news came just days after Japanese carmaker Nissan was forced to recall about 1.2m vehicles that were inspected by unauthorised technicians.

Other companies affected by the Kobe Steel scandal include Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Kawasaki Heavy Industries, IHI, Honda, Mazda and Subaru. Kobe Steel said it had no evidence of any safety concerns as a result of the fraudulent certification. However, Yasuji Komiyama, director of metal industries at Japan’s Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry, said the scandal was “threatening fair and proper trading” by other companies. He called on the firm to do extra safety checks, investigate the root cause of the certification failure and put forward proposals to prevent problems.

“If there were issues common with other manufacturers, we will ask [the wider manufacturing sector] to rectify the problems,” Mr Komiyama added. The Japanese government was made aware of the problem last month.

Boeing said it had been conducting comprehensive inspections and analysis of affected shipments since it was told about Kobe Steel’s data falsification.

“Nothing in our review to date leads us to conclude that this issue presents a safety concern, and we will continue to work diligently with our suppliers to complete our investigation,” it said. Several other end users of Kobe Steel’s supplies, ranging from Toyota to JR Tokai, the rail group that operates the bullet train, said they were still investigating whether there were concerns around quality of the materials and parts.

Toyota said the affected material had been used in the hoods and rear doors of cars made in Japan.

“We recognise that this breach of compliance principles on the part of a supplier is a grave issue,” said Toyota. Nissan, Mazda and Honda confirmed they used aluminium produced by Kobe Steel and were now investigating the matter and carrying out safety checks.

Mitsubishi Heavy, which made the H-2A rocket launched on Tuesday for a satellite, said it had conducted its own inspections on the material from the steel group ahead of lift off. Mitsubishi Heavy’s troubled Mitsubishi Regional Jet also used shipments with falsified data. The company said there was no safety issue and delivery of the regional passenger jet remained on schedule.

Shares in Kobe Steel spent most of the main session untraded due to the glut of sell orders, but eventually closed 21.9 per cent lower at ¥‎1,068. Shares in rival Japanese aluminium producers rose. Daiki Aluminium closed up 4 per cent, while Nippon Light Metal Holdings added 3.8 per cent and UACJ gained 2.9 per cent."

Any - Cars to avoid buying - Engineer Andy

Nasty! For their sake, they'd better hope that no major issues are found, as any large scale recall for parts replacements (including engines or load-bearing structures/saftey components) would cost a fortune and could easily result in huge lawsuits in Kobe Steel's direction, possibly bankrupting them.

Normally I rate the Japanese (and Koreans generally) highly in terms of engineering quality for products, which is why I buy my cars from them, but occasionally this 'losing face' thing rears its head again - really a 'code of silence' when a firm or person/people are given a contract or task to do that they cannot fullfill in term or on budget, so in some circumstances they cut corners, lie/keep quiet, then do all that 'profuse bowing' in abject apology once they are caught.

Just glad (or at least hoping) my Mazda3 isn't affected as its 11+ years old rather fortunate really.

 

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