Which car next??? - Daveh166

First of all I'm new to this forum so I apologise if I've done this wrong etc

I've been reading a lot on the forums but can't find an exact answer for my situation so was hoping I could get help here?!

Basically I currently own a 2014 kia picanto 1.0, which I'm wanting to trade in for a medium sized car. Now I like the kia ceed, Honda civic and mazda 3 but I'm not sure about petrol or diesel and what kind of REAL mpg I'll achieve or even if the dpf or egr will give problems! Now I know petrol VS diesel has been covered a lot but never to everyone's circumstances...

So basically I'm looking at

1. Kia ceed 1.6crdi or 1.6gdi

2. Honda civic 1.6 idtec or 1.8 petrol

3. Mazda 3 2.2 diesel or 2.0 petrol

(All around 2014 reg)

I do 100 miles a week commuting which is at night so no traffic, 7 miles of empty town driving with only 6 stops maximum at lights then 3 miles of motorway. I then do one or two 2 mile short trips but then at the weekend I go off to the lakes or Wales which is anywhere between 200 and 300 miles! This makes me want a small petrol for work and back but then a large diesel for the weekend for the mpg and power on hills!

So as you can see it kinda puts me in between petrol and diesel! I'd also love to know how quickly the 2.2 diesel engine warms up in comparison to the 1.6 diesel engines as I'm not sure it'll warm up on the 10 mile trip to work. Also what kinda mpg would I get from the petrol? As I know they'd cost more on fuel but after buying a failed dpf it would even out right?

Again I'm sorry for boring everyone with the same topic and for this being soo loooong ??

Any thoughts?

Which car next??? - Sulphur Man

All good cars on your shortlist, but for me, 'in between diesel and petrol' is still petrol, due to reduced complexity of the powertrain, The key requirement is that the car must transport you to your place of work reliably, as well as cheaply.

I'd take the Civic 1.8 petrol. It can be coaxed in into the low 40mpg without much effort, and is a very proven engine. We run an 08-reg FR-V 1.8 auto and it's been faultless for 6 years. It warms up quickly too.

Which car next??? - movilogo

I'd suggest petrol - I have a Kia Ceed 1.6 GDI automatic. Shame you can't buy petrol auto Ceed anymore.

A 2014 Kia will have still 4 years warranty left while others will be out of warranty end 2017.

Which car next??? - SLO76
For your usage petrol will offer the best bet regarding reliability but I do understand the desire for the pull and economy of a turbo diesel.

Firstly I'd drop the Mazda 3 2.2 diesel. This engine has a rather nasty reputation for premature failure and is prone to clogging the DPF if used on regular short runs like you intend. The 2.0 petrol is a great alternative however. Both versions are strong enough for most drivers and will if driven carefully come close to 50mpg on longer runs. There's no turbo, no DPF and no timing belt to worry about. These are fine handling little cars with pliant ride quality and no real vices to worry about. A firm favourite of mine despite the slightly dull looks.

The Civic is very robust and practical. The 1.6 diesel is also probably the best small Diesel engine on the market at the moment with no real reliability worries. It's exceptionally economical, up to 70mpg on longer runs (our CRV breaks 60mpg easy enough) it's smooth (for a diesel) and it pulls well. It's a clean running engine too and DPF issues very rare. If you must have diesel on your usage then this is the car to go for without question. They also hold their money well. The 1.8 petrol will touch 45mpg without driving like a nun and is utterly bombproof mechanically. Handling isn't as fluid as the Mazda, the steering is a bit numb and the ride on sportier models is firm but there's little to worry about.

The Kia is a pleasant little car to look at and ok to drive but the 1.6 petrol is flat performance wise so the diesel is really your only bet if you want overtaking urge on B roads. However while these are good value nearly new they tend to drop in value quickly and will be next to worthless at 6-7yrs old so buy accordingly. They're reliable but only buy one with a full main dealer history or that excellent 7yr warranty is void. Don't let sales staff tell you otherwise, I can assure you it's almost impossible to claim on without a dealer history.

To your list I'd also add the Ford Focus 1.6 Ecoboost (don't touch the 1.6 TDCi or 1.0 Ecoboost!)

Plus the Seat Leon 1.4 TSi FR or SE if you want softer suspension. Again must have a full main dealer history and the intention of maintaining this. These engines are still unproven longterm but are to date causing few issues.
Which car next??? - Daveh166

Thanks for all the replies everyone!

Think I may stay away from diesel then as everyone has pretty much confirmed my worries on them! And with the government hating diesels right now that may be another reason not to choose diesel!

I guess all three cars have good points and bad points really...

The kia has amazing equipment and the warrenty but lack lustre performance

Honda has the reliability and pulling power but not very good looking and £150 tax

mazda has the cheapest running costs and looks the best but not many around and all in bad condition

As for performance I'm not looking for supercar performance but more something that'll get me up decent sized hills without revving the nuts off it! ??

SL076 I had a look at the seat Leon and really like it but hated the interior! Just me being picky I think but there was just acres of dull gray haha otherwise a nice car... The Ford I like too but people say they fall apart a lot ?? yet my mum's been fine but not done many miles!

Which car next??? - SLO76
"The Ford I like too but people say they fall apart a lot ?? yet my mum's been fine but not done many miles!"

Some of the plastics are a bit on the cheap side but general reliability is good with the 1.6 petrols. They're all based on the Yamaha designed Zetec se that's been around since 1996. They're good fun to drive and rarely go wrong (thus the reason why so many Mk I's are still running) but as with any turbocharged motor I'd buy only with a full main dealer history.
Which car next??? - badbusdriver

I don't know who is telling you Ford's fall apart, but in my experience, and i have had a few, that is not the case at all. OK the materials used may not have the soft touch showroom appeal of those in an Audi, but if you are buying a car with your own money and plan to keep it a while, that is not important. Longevity on the other hand, is important. By the way, i use a 2006 Ford Transit Connect for my work, a van which used a selection of mechanical components and interior trim from the focus and mondeo of the same age. I have had it for over 7.5 years now and have taken the mileage from 60k to 133k. It has had no major issues despite the constant stop start driving i do, and everything still works apart from the heated windscreen.

Regarding the leon, do you not think it important that the interior of a car should not attract your attention with lots of distractions and bling, so you concentrate on driving?.

Which car next??? - Engineer Andy

I don't know who is telling you Ford's fall apart, but in my experience, and i have had a few, that is not the case at all. OK the materials used may not have the soft touch showroom appeal of those in an Audi, but if you are buying a car with your own money and plan to keep it a while, that is not important. Longevity on the other hand, is important. By the way, i use a 2006 Ford Transit Connect for my work, a van which used a selection of mechanical components and interior trim from the focus and mondeo of the same age. I have had it for over 7.5 years now and have taken the mileage from 60k to 133k. It has had no major issues despite the constant stop start driving i do, and everything still works apart from the heated windscreen.

Regarding the leon, do you not think it important that the interior of a car should not attract your attention with lots of distractions and bling, so you concentrate on driving?.

When I was looking for a car back earlier in the year, amongst many I looked at the current version Focus, Ceed (presumably soon to be replaced with a a new version as its now 5 years old), previous version i30 (essentially the same as the Ceed underneath - OP - if you're considering the Ceed, consider the i30) as well as the Mazda3 (direct replacement).

Personally speaking, I though that the Focus interior, and especially the dash, looked rather low-rent (lots of cheap-looking hard grey plastics and layout - I much prefer the Focus mk2 & 2.5 interior/dash) compared to the others I looked at. I was quite impressed with both the Ceed and i30 interior for both fit and fish and comfort. Again, personally speaking, I don't think the Focus interior (and especially the dash) is up to the same standard and styling of the Mondeo, which I do like (both current and previous version). I would agree with bbd in that just because a manufacturer has not used expensive soft-touch plastics that it isn't well put together and is long-lasting.

I wasn't impressed with the look and materials used of the Civic interior - in many respects its an excellent long-term buy, especially factoring in reliability and the engines but the interior looks just weren't to my liking and, compared to a similar specced Mazda3 or Ceed/i30, they are much more expensive to buy and run, especially if you intend to keep it a long time (lower depreciation means nothing if you keep it until its 10+ years old as the difference will be only a few £000 at best, whilst the new price is often £2k-3k more and second hand prices [up to 5 years old] £1k - £2k more in my experience.

To the OP

For the aforementioned 'reliable Far Eastern' makes, the choice will probably come down to:

  1. The driving experience (get a good long test drive on a variety of roads and speeds - try your 'to work' route or other regularly used roads when empty and a bit busier), including comfort (get the seat/driving position as best you can before the test drive and take your time - many people don't do this and regret it, then having [at great expense] to change cars within a month or two). This will include selecting the car with the correct wheel/tyre combination and suspension set up - some people don't mind the 18in low (40) profile tyres, but most people don't, or at least won't after a few months once a newer car is 'worn in' in the suspension dept. I would look at models with 15in (60 - 75 profile) or 16in (55 to 65 profile) tyres. Not only do they still grip the road very well (unless you're on a track day or driving at the limit, you can't really tell the difference with an 18in version), they give a few more mpg, last much longer and are often between 50-67% of the price to replace, as well as being far more comfortable on our poor roads. Cheack on online tyre websites for the specific tyres on these cars in case they are 'odd' sizes and are more expensive - the latest Mazda3 has less common 205/60R16s (205/55R16 is far more common) on all models except the Sport (18in) and so are much nearer the price of those on the Sport model.
  2. The dealership experience. See if you can find out any reviews (on this website - Good Garage Guide, and on others, e.g. websites for specific cars [e.g. there's one for the Mazda3 in the UK which I'm a member of, where dealerships are reviewed]) as well as having a good look around, and asking about prices for annual servicing (not just year 1, but ask for each year from 1 - 6 [some offer 'reduced price servicing' for older cars, but they don't do so much, some may do geneuinely good deals for fixed price servicing, but check the prices and what isn't covered]) for the cars you're looking at (they can vary quite a bit [Hondas aren't cheap to service at main dealerships, but they probably are better than the others, who aren't bad] at all, and can vary from one area to another even for the same make) and common parts replacements you may need if you keep it for 5+ years (brake pads/discs, clutch etc). The closest dealership may not be the cheapest, and one only another 10-15 miles away may be considerably cheaper due to competition with other make or indie dealerships. Worth considering if they are as good on customer service, especially if it is 'on the way' or in the town/city you work in.
  3. Cost of ownership. Obviously its no good buying a cheap to buy and run car that you hate using (see above), but make sure you can afford to run it, not just in terms of any loan payments, but fuel, insurance (get quotes via the screenscraper websites for all variants you're looking at once you've narrowed them down a bit), VED (not that if you did buy a brand new or nearly near car registered after April this year, it could cost £100 - £145 more than a car registered in the 3-5 years beforehand, as the VED bands have changed for new cars and isn't kind to the majority of them) and parts replacements (often overlooked - see reviews, including owners reviews and websites for how often certain parts need replacement - with your judgement as to how you drive compared to those reviewing, noting that certain parts like brakes [as I've found out] don't like sitting around not being used]). If you're only going to keep the car until its 5 years old, then depreciation is a factor; over 7-10 years old, much less so as described above.

Worth considering the various VAG cars (Golf, Leon [try and get past the interior, its not so bad!] and Octavia) with the 1.4TSi (122bhp or if you can afford it, the 140bhp or later 150bhp ACT [sweet] versions) engines (not the older 'twin charger 160bhp versions which are very unreliable) which offer nearer-to-diesel like mpg and very good performance. Of those you spoke of originally, the Civic is the best in real life (slightly) for mpg (see HJ's Real mpg section) for its performance. I must admit thinking that the current Mazda3 2.0 (120PS) was not as quick (0-60 in 8.9sec) as I had hoped or significantly nippier in the real world as my existing 1.6 (non-turbo petrol) version. To me, the non-turbo Ceeds and i30s aren't particular swift in comparison - OK but nothing special in terms of performance. The latest i30 has a 1.4T petrol engine which probably will be better, but it may be out of your price range.

I think the newer ones are only belt driven (avoid the previously dodgy chains they had lots of problems with) if you can find a good'un for a reasonable price at a good dealership. The Octavia may be a bit large, but if that isn't a problem then the huge boot will be a big plus if your trips to the country need a good sized boot (also on the Civic). Again, as above, make sure you get the right spec level for both (and especially) comfort and other considerations - the higher spec 140/150bhp TSi cars may come on lower profile tyres and firmer suspension than the 122bhp versions, though I think the SE-spec Octavia is on ordinary tyres.

Best of luck (sorry to drone on a bit - got into a writing groove!).

PS. Make sure whatever you get at least has a space-saver spare - some makes, including Mazda, are NOT offering new cars with them as standard and prospective buyers HAVE to ask for them as optional extras or source them independently. The included 'tube of goo' isn't worth it. Mazda charge (in my opinion) a rip-off £395 for the prviledge, other much less. You may be lucky if they do have one fitted (make sure its the correct size) or it may be a 'negotiating point' for the dealer to fit one to sweeten the deal (don't take any bull from the salesperson that the tube of goo is fine). Not sure whether its best to bring this up before after the price haggling - SLO can probably answer that given his experience in dealerships.

Which car next??? - Daveh166

First of all thanks for the great advice guys!! Really given me stuff to think about!!

So I have considered the i30 but wasn't keen on the styling ?? as for vag I'm a bit half and half on them as I've had a few friends and naughbors have problems with the newer ones plus I do find them very boring ?? (I'm a picky sod)

This is a car I hope to keep till it's at leased ten years old (maybe longer if it behaves) and I do transport a downhill mountain bike (b***** huge bike) around in the back, so I would like a good amount of space but any of these mid sized cars can handle it...

The inflation kits you get don't bother me so much as I'd do what I did with my current car, throw it in the bin and source a space saver and jack etc from a local scrappy or eBay.

With the mazda 3 I'd get the se-l nav model not the sport as the ride would be harsh and that daft pop up display for the speed is pointless (I have to duck to see it). The kia would be spec 3 or above and having a kia right now I know the service department well with having done so many miles in my current car! Which brings me to my next consideration... High milage! If I keep car till they're 10 years old they'll have covered 150k plus by then and not sure if the smaller 1.6 kia would struggle with that especially with 20k service intervals.

I think I've struck the Honda off my list as I can think of more negatives that positives with it really including the 150 quid tax and higher insurance cost!

Again thanks for the superb comments! ??????

Which car next??? - Engineer Andy

First of all thanks for the great advice guys!! Really given me stuff to think about!!

So I have considered the i30 but wasn't keen on the styling ?? as for vag I'm a bit half and half on them as I've had a few friends and naughbors have problems with the newer ones plus I do find them very boring ?? (I'm a picky sod)

This is a car I hope to keep till it's at leased ten years old (maybe longer if it behaves) and I do transport a downhill mountain bike (b***** huge bike) around in the back, so I would like a good amount of space but any of these mid sized cars can handle it...

The inflation kits you get don't bother me so much as I'd do what I did with my current car, throw it in the bin and source a space saver and jack etc from a local scrappy or eBay.

With the mazda 3 I'd get the se-l nav model not the sport as the ride would be harsh and that daft pop up display for the speed is pointless (I have to duck to see it). The kia would be spec 3 or above and having a kia right now I know the service department well with having done so many miles in my current car! Which brings me to my next consideration... High milage! If I keep car till they're 10 years old they'll have covered 150k plus by then and not sure if the smaller 1.6 kia would struggle with that especially with 20k service intervals.

I think I've struck the Honda off my list as I can think of more negatives that positives with it really including the 150 quid tax and higher insurance cost!

Again thanks for the superb comments! ??????

I agree that of the Mazda 3s,the SE-L though with the Nav as well is th best in that range to go for, as its the best compromise of spec, comfort and value for money. Whatever car you do go for, make sure the stuff you intend to carry in the boot can both fit through the aperture as well as in the boot itself - the nicer looking Mazda3 fastback (like my mk1 saloon) has a biggger boot than thehatch but a small boot aperture, meaning some items can't fit in. The hatch will be okay though in that regard, just not quite as nice looking, though much better than previous versions. I quite understand about the looks of the previous i30 -the Ceed is much better looking on the outside at least. Unlike with Hondas, Mazda dealerships can vary in quality quite a bit, though they are still generally better than most European makes and Ford/Vauxhall in my view. Similarly for Kia and Hyundai.

PS. If you are thinking of considering ANY of the diesel engined models for the Mazda, not just the 2.2, DON'T -the 1.5 has reliability issues as well. All the petrol versions are excellent in terms of reliability.

Edited by Engineer Andy on 22/09/2017 at 00:16

Which car next??? - Daveh166

In my price range (upto £10500) I could only get the 2.2d and I've decided to go for petrol so that's no problem :') with the saloon I couldn't fit my bike through the small gap so that solved that one :)

With dealers I think one of the reasons I look at kia is because of the service I've had! My kia picanto had two rattles that developed after 2 years and they fixed it and gave me a free hire car no quibbles!! I mean I wasn't expecting them to just fix that on an older car at all! Even more recently I had a service and got talking to the manager again and mentioned I was interested in a ceed, she then said if she knew before hand she'd have arranged for me to borrow a ceed for a couple of hours!! I mean you can't beat that really! Especially when their service prices are the same as quoted by backstreet garages! But all this could be to do with the fact that Bolton kia is owned by kia themselves!

But I'd hope mazda would offer the same service too!

Edited by Daveh166 on 22/09/2017 at 00:33

Which car next??? - SLO76
Mazda dealers can be a bit hit and miss but for longterm ownership and mileage you're talking about the 3 2.0 is probably the best option. Low stressed engine, decent performance and economy with excellent handling and ride balance. I wouldn't write off the Civic for costing £2 a week more to tax though or the 1.6 diesel Civic either. Both would be robust and practical options here and the diesels genuine 70mpg capability and strong midrange performance are appealing. Just watch for clutch judder as Honda seem to be using clutches which aren't quite up to the job on the diesels. Petrols aren't a worry.

Edited by SLO76 on 22/09/2017 at 11:37

Which car next??? - expat

>>The inflation kits you get don't bother me so much as I'd do what I did with my current car, >>throw it in the bin and source a space saver and jack etc from a local scrappy or eBay.

With the current trend for inflation kits do they still have a spare wheel well to put a spare in? Worth checking. You wouldn't want a spare rattling around in the boot.

Which car next??? - bazza

I've recently acquired a 12 reg new shape Civic 1.8 petrol, after an unsatisfactory experience with an Octavia estate 1.9 tdi. It's currently averaging just under 50mpg ( measured) on mainly A roads, motorways and a bit of urban driving. I can't really find anything negative to say, the rear visibility is ok after getting used to it, it's fabulous to drive after the Octavia and much more refined and comfortable. The engine in particular, is in a different league of refinement and flexibility. i was a little concerned about practicality after the estate, but the boot is deep and accomodating, while its trump card are rear seats that flip up cinema-style, so that you can walk through the back of the car. Your bike would fit easily. I sourced a spacesaver spare off ebay and it fits into the wheel well, (ceetain Accord ones fit, so there's plenty about). I can only recommend so far.

Which car next??? - Engineer Andy

I've recently acquired a 12 reg new shape Civic 1.8 petrol, after an unsatisfactory experience with an Octavia estate 1.9 tdi. It's currently averaging just under 50mpg ( measured) on mainly A roads, motorways and a bit of urban driving. I can't really find anything negative to say, the rear visibility is ok after getting used to it, it's fabulous to drive after the Octavia and much more refined and comfortable. The engine in particular, is in a different league of refinement and flexibility. i was a little concerned about practicality after the estate, but the boot is deep and accomodating, while its trump card are rear seats that flip up cinema-style, so that you can walk through the back of the car. Your bike would fit easily. I sourced a spacesaver spare off ebay and it fits into the wheel well, (ceetain Accord ones fit, so there's plenty about). I can only recommend so far.

I agree with you and SLO - the OP should rule out the Civic (despite my bias twowards petrol-driven Mazdas as an owner of an older one), epsecially as the boot (even discounting the undefloor area) is 40+ litres more than the Mazda3 hatchback (about the same as the fastback) and has the 'magic seats' in the rear which fold completely flat. If it weren't for the (in my view) cheesy dashboard and hard-looking reams of grey plastic I'd have had this on my list for replacing my Mazda3 in a heartbeat, despite the higher prices and running costs. I could (at the time) afford to be more choosy (in the end I didn't buy anything as I wasn't entirely convinced it was worth changing, yet).

Good to see that the OP has a choice at least given they seem to have decent dealerships nearby, with the KIA warranty (as long as any seconda hand buy has been serviced/worked on only at KIA dealerships) and existing relationship with them probably making the Ceed favourite.

 

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