PCN Parked beyond the bay markings

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Fri 8 Sep 2017 10:32
PCN Parked beyond the bay markings - Duvvaj

PCN for parking beyond Bay Markings.

I received a PCN for parking beyond bay markings. Is this Legal ? It was in a Council Car park and the front of my car overhung the bay slightly.

This white lined chevron reduced to nothing further down the parking bays and at that point cars where parked nose to nose. There was no signage anywhere to say what I had done was illegal. The hatched area was not for pedestrians, nor because of its one way diagonal front in design was in any way intruding on boot loading. As my bay was very close to the hairpin I wanted to ensure my boot was not likely to be hit whislt parked.

Their Contravention Code is 86

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Fri 8 Sep 2017 10:46
PCN Parked beyond the bay markings - RobJP

I imagine the council have sent you a picture of the infirngement. I'd suggest you post it on a picture hosting site, and then link to it.

Technically, yes, the council can 'do you' for overhanging the bay. The rule of 'de minimis' should apply, however - this is where the breach of a rule is so minor that the law does not interest itself in it.

However, what you view as 'de minimis' and what the council view as it may be very different. The picture, as always, will tell more than a thousand words could do.

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Fri 8 Sep 2017 10:52
PCN Parked beyond the bay markings - RT

As it's a council car park the PCN is probably legal as their notices may say words to the effect of "parking within marked bays only". Oversize vehicles get no legal concession.

It's worth an appeal as you seem not to be obstruction any area used by other vehicles or pedestrians.

Edited by RT on 08/09/2017 at 10:53

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Fri 8 Sep 2017 14:11
PCN Parked beyond the bay markings - Duvvaj

Thanks RT for your reply.

Their is no signage either on the road surface or on their main meter signage describing this 'so called' infringement. I could understand if I parked laterally across another bay but I didn't.

The car inquestion is a hatch back so not overlarge but as it was parked very close to the hairpin apex I wanted to ensure it didn't get damaged by other vehicles.

I maintain that this is purely for revenue and no logic can apply as further down the row (less that 4 vehicles the lining is totally absent.

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Fri 8 Sep 2017 14:03
PCN Parked beyond the bay markings - Duvvaj

Many thanks Rob for both reading and replying.

Had thought of Pepipoo but the photos attached to the Council website are miniscule and when you click to enlarge only show approx. the top 30% and not on the ground.

I do not contend that the front of the car overhung (even though it obstructs nothing and no one), but for the reason given. My main gripe with them is that this is just a money making issue as I cannot in all reasonableness come up with a purpose for the random white lining. I'm damn sure they couldn't either.

My Latin isn't as hot as your :-) so had to google it ! I'm convinced that an Adjudicator would find in my favour, but the question is can I be bothered ? It's all down to principle.

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Fri 8 Sep 2017 14:38
PCN Parked beyond the bay markings - RobJP

Can you post up the link to the photo on the council website ?

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Fri 8 Sep 2017 15:39
PCN Parked beyond the bay markings - Bromptonaut

You need to find a copy of the rules/order governing the particular car park. However parking outside marked bays is ppretty much a universal infringement. It doesn't matter whether you can see the rationale for hatchings etc. If you're outside the bays then the infringment has probably occurred.

The permissible grounds of appeal are here:

www.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/grounds-of-appea.../

As Rob says a link to the pictures or at least a view of the site would help.

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Fri 8 Sep 2017 16:54
PCN Parked beyond the bay markings - RT

You need to find a copy of the rules/order governing the particular car park. However parking outside marked bays is ppretty much a universal infringement. It doesn't matter whether you can see the rationale for hatchings etc. If you're outside the bays then the infringment has probably occurred.

The permissible grounds of appeal are here:

www.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/grounds-of-appea.../

As Rob says a link to the pictures or at least a view of the site would help.

It's also possible to appeal direct to the council - not the formal process maybe but I have appealled to the better nature over non-display of a Blue Badge, which I hold, and was let off - like this case technically an infringement but not using a space I wasn't entitled to

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Fri 8 Sep 2017 17:15
PCN Parked beyond the bay markings - Bromptonaut

It's also possible to appeal direct to the council - not the formal process maybe but I have appealled to the better nature over non-display of a Blue Badge, which I hold, and was let off - like this case technically an infringement but not using a space I wasn't entitled to

I di same on behalf of MRs B where autocorrect changed LOV in her registration to LOVE whil using a parking app. Leeds Council let her off but it took two bites at the cherry.

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Mon 25 Sep 2017 12:18
PCN Parked beyond the bay markings - concrete

I had a similar problem in Newcastle. Some of the cars in other bays were badly positioned and this made the end bay virtuall unuseable within the lined area. However being on the end and next to a wall it caused no obstruction at all, so I parked there. To be on the safe side I photographed the offending vehicles and my own, just in case. This was the days before mobiles had cameras but I always carried a camera for use on site. Sure enough, when I returned there was a ticket. I appealed and they recinded the ticket. Not much else they could do really given the evidence. Where I live now the council are not so obliging, and I had to take them to a tribunal, which I won. The moral is of course, if you are slightly unsure but have parked safely, then take photos of the cars around you and your car and the signage. It may pay off later. Councils should take a more reasonable view when looking at percieved infringements of often quite petty rules. Rules are for the blind obedience of fools and for the guidance of the wise. Good luck with the appeal.

Very interesting comment from Rob about 'de minimis'. Fascinating what comes into play even with a subject as mundane as parking.

Cheers Concrete

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