All - Conventional cars on way out - barney100

Volvo has announced that from 2019 they won't make any more diesel or petrol cars, it's eletric or hybrid from then. France wants to clear the country of petrol and diesel by 2040. So when there are millions of electric cars around we are going to need 20 more power stations according to the press to cope with the demand for electric. How will a three hundred mile journey work out? Charge before setting off then two very lengthy charges en route if you can get to a plug. No petrol or diesel tax for HM Gov so what scheme will they come up with to replace the cash lost? Electric equals almost silent running so you'll never hear the car that comes towards you? What next? electric aircraft? ships? They pollute plenty.

All - Conventional cars on way out - badbusdriver

My son mentioned this yesterday, and I have to say I was pretty surprised!. No petrol or diesel in 2 years?. Of course that isn't quite the case, as the hybrids will have a petrol engine. Doesn't surprise me long term though, especially for volvo as it's owned by a Chinese company. Going by what I have read, China is making a major push towards hybrid, electric and fuel cell cars to reduce their dependancy on Russian oil.

All - Conventional cars on way out - 520i

Indeed, what a load of rollocks. Are Volvo going to knock these electric motors out for the same price as their current conventional range, or is there just an assumption that everybody will be happy to pay through the nose for cars in the very near future? And byebye legendary Volvo police car fleets around the globe, that have helped forge the company's image for decades. This could backfire spectacularly on Volvo, with them ending up marginalising themselves into being a small niche manufacturer. Their market share in the UK isn't enormous, it's difficult to see how they expect to do well by doing this. Electric cars was the bright new, Chinese-backed future for Saab once, wasn't it?!

As for France, unless they're going to spend vast sums on various incentive and scrappage schemes, that sounds a very ambitious target.

Edited by 520i on 08/07/2017 at 13:02

All - Conventional cars on way out - Vitesse6

It's progress, and someone has to start the ball rolling. I remember the howls of protest and the fight to get the lead out of petrol. Then came catalysts and there were warnings that it would be the end of civilisation as we knew it.

It may not be easy to do, but at some point we will have to end our dependance on fossil fuels. Regardless of what the Trumps of this world say, climate change is happening and we have to move with the times. Ten years ago electric cars were either a joke or a dream. They are now becoming a reality..

These are the opening moves in the next stage of motoring development.

All - Conventional cars on way out - SLO76
"France wants to clear the country of petrol and diesel by 2040."

They intend on banning the sale of new petrol and diesel cars by 2040. Those already on the roads will have a long life beyond this point, though it's likely they'll be gradually banned from major city centres.

No big fear though. As much as I love the internal combustion engine I've driven a couple of all electric cars and they're perfectly pleasant things and will suit 95% of drivers as long as the range can exceed a genuine 200 miles or so. I will miss the smell, the noise, the manual box and the drama of a good petrol or Diesel engine though. Though I'm sure they'll never be banned outright even in France. There's too many rural types smoking around in ancient Citroen's and Peugeot's for that to be an easy option.

All - Conventional cars on way out - RobJP

Volvo has announced that from 2019 they won't make any more diesel or petrol cars, it's eletric or hybrid from then.

What a wonderful, attention-grabbing, headline-grabbing story. Guaranteed to get your car company top story.

The reality, however, is slightly different ...

Volvo have announced that from 2019, all their models will be fitted with an electric motor - either as a pure EV, a plug-in hybrid, OR (and read this bit really carefully) as a 'mild hybrid'.

'Mild hybrid' is industry jargon for 'start-stop'. You know, the system where virtually all cars shut the engine down in traffic, if the battery is charged enough.

Still sound like such an earth-shattering headline ?

All - Conventional cars on way out - Stanb Sevento

Pie in the sky attention grabbing nonsense as far as I can see. Its school yard boasting my plans are more ambitious than yours. How France can predict twenty odd years ahead defies reason. Ten years ago diesel was the answer and look what happened there.

Lithium batteries are great and can work well for for a few but they don’t scale up well. Try designing a battery for a 71/2 Ton van or truck. We are miles away and it will likely take a new technology that does not exist yet. Progress is being made and thats great but lets not get carried away.

Edited by Stanb Sevento on 08/07/2017 at 15:26

All - Conventional cars on way out - barney100

If the report is to believed China is building factories to produce batteries anticipation of high demand. As for the French position anyone predicting their actions is braver than me.

All - Conventional cars on way out - focussed

The Minister who proposed the "no more petrol or diesel cars to be sold after 2040 in France" policy is one Nicholas Hulot. He is not a scientist, or an engineer, he is a photographer and journalist and is the principal/owner of a very profitable environmental website which receives sponsorship from amongst others, EDF - what a surprise!

It's always like this in France - remember the compusory breathalyser brought in by Sarkhozy? One of his mates owned a factory making the things and had fallen on hard times, so France ended up with a compulsory breath balloon in every car to help his mate out.

Plus ca change - plus c'est la meme change - as they say!

I somehow don't think he will be a minister in Napoleon Macron's government for too long!

All - Conventional cars on way out - focussed

The Minister who proposed the "no more petrol or diesel cars to be sold after 2040 in France" policy is one Nicholas Hulot. He is not a scientist, or an engineer, he is a photographer and journalist and is the principal/owner of a very profitable environmental website which receives sponsorship from amongst others, EDF - what a surprise!

It's always like this in France - remember the compusory breathalyser brought in by Sarkhozy? One of his mates owned a factory making the things and had fallen on hard times, so France ended up with a compulsory breath balloon in every car to help his mate out.

Plus ca change - plus c'est la meme change - as they say!

I somehow don't think he will be a minister in Napoleon Macron's government for too long!

Update on this subject from today's news in France.

The aforementioned M Hulot has just announced that he wants to close or shut down 17 nuclear reactors at French power stations.

The fact that if he wants to roll out electric cars nationwide in the future, more generating capacity will be needed not less, seems to have escaped him.

If we had emoticons on this forum I would post a face palm!

All - Conventional cars on way out - corax
Lithium batteries are great and can work well for for a few but they don’t scale up well. Try designing a battery for a 71/2 Ton van or truck. We are miles away and it will likely take a new technology that does not exist yet. Progress is being made and thats great but lets not get carried away.

The fact that road vehicles have to be able to run with their own energy supply is the big hurdle. Electric motors are far superior to internal combustion engines for heavy machinery due to smooth, stepless and massive torque from a standstill, thats why they've been used on freight trains for years, but they have a whole permanent infrastructure based around them.

All - Conventional cars on way out - RT
Lithium batteries are great and can work well for for a few but they don’t scale up well. Try designing a battery for a 71/2 Ton van or truck. We are miles away and it will likely take a new technology that does not exist yet. Progress is being made and thats great but lets not get carried away.

The fact that road vehicles have to be able to run with their own energy supply is the big hurdle. Electric motors are far superior to internal combustion engines for heavy machinery due to smooth, stepless and massive torque from a standstill, thats why they've been used on freight trains for years, but they have a whole permanent infrastructure based around them.

Maximum flexibility comes from a constant rpm diesel driving a generator, ie diesel-electric.

Research is going on to incorporate micro-gas-turbines to drive micro-generators - overcoming the constant speed drawback of gas turbines in cars.

All - Conventional cars on way out - John F

It'll be ages before 'conventional' cars disappear. Steam cars/lorries existed for decades alongside internal combustion engined models before they became extinct.

All - Conventional cars on way out - SLO76

It'll be ages before 'conventional' cars disappear. Steam cars/lorries existed for decades alongside internal combustion engined models before they became extinct.

And it's still perfectly legal to drive one on the road today...
All - Conventional cars on way out - Terry W

Car companies and greens would have us believe that electric cars run on angel dust. This is fatuous - all they currently do is shift emissions from cities and roads to power stations.

The overall efficiency measured from well head to driving is complex but as best I can understand they may be in the same ball park. Electric motors on their own are far more efficient that petrol/diesel, but electric cars need power stations, charging infrastructures and transmission networks etc all of which create inefficiencies.

Hybrid vehicles are costly complex devices. Electric only vehicles need a far better charging infrastructure or battery exchange stations than currently exists even if only for the odd monthly trip or holiday.

The Chinese may understandably decide to lead any transition away from fossil fuels. Volvo are an upmarket brand able to get away with premium pricing The Chinese may feel that risking one small component of their rapidly expanding car market to potentially lead a new technolgy is a risk worth taking.

All - Conventional cars on way out - Big John

Hybrid vehicles are costly complex devices.

Costly(ish) - for now

Complex, depends on the car - On the Toyota / Lexus hybrid the electronically variable transmission has surprisingly few oily bits. Far far less than a typical automatic and still less than a manual version

All - Conventional cars on way out - Andrew-T

The overall efficiency measured from well head to driving is complex but as best I can understand they may be in the same ball park. Electric motors on their own are far more efficient that petrol/diesel, but electric cars need power stations, charging infrastructures and transmission networks etc all of which create inefficiencies.

The only way an all-electric vehicle will compete with a fuel-driven one when the 'tank' runs dry, will be to replace the discharged battery/ies with charged ones. Driving into a petrol station for a refill and out again in 5 minutes, as we are used to, is just not on, whatever the network of charging points is like.

And someone will have to come up with a magic source of energy if they think hydrogen is the fuel of the future. Cars loaded with compressed H2 will be as safe as a space rocket.

All - Conventional cars on way out - angelcyn

If you read the Volvo statement in full you will see that consider the UK to be a marginal market for electric vehicles because of our lack of infrastructure, where have I heard that before, the lack of charging facilities makes electric cars unviable for the foreseeable future.

And don't forget as with all new technology those who buy first will be the ones to take a hit , once these do start to sell in numbers the technology will progress at a rate and those first models will be worth zilch, think early digital cameras, it was ever thus.

In real terms pure electric vehicles should be cheap, they are quite simple and the motors are proven technology and produced in big numbers, hybrids are different with two power sources plus batteries so will never be as cheap.

All - Conventional cars on way out - sammy1

Not quite yet with existing tech, changing over batteries when flat, NO?. Charging at home offroad OK as at present, but consider the millions living in terraced housing,cables crossing the pavements NO?. The local authority or someone like cable TV putting in millions of kerbside chargers NO? Surely a system of charging while on the move is the way to go or are batteries a non starter? Existing tech has not got any practical range for batteries and what is the point of a hybrid,two engines for the average practical person surely a depreciation nightmare. Exeter services was full yesterday morning, not one car on the THREE charging points, and consider the amount of room these chargers take up,one to every parking space, cost and practicality,NO.

The ultimate nightmare of the immediate future A BATTERY SELF DRIVING SILENT CAR!

All - Conventional cars on way out - corax

Car companies and greens would have us believe that electric cars run on angel dust. This is fatuous - all they currently do is shift emissions from cities and roads to power stations.

Emissions from energy production are coming down all the time, we are a big player regarding wind power which makes sense considering we are the best location in Europe, and it's starting to pay for itself. Also there are tidal turbines being installed on the sea bed in Scotland and Wales. We have some of the strongest tides in the world, we need to utilise them.

California is putting up large grids of batteries to store solar power so that it can be used as and when, and these technologies will become more popular as long as they are viable.

We are moving forward - good thing too when you consider the colossal amount of energy from the sun that hits the planet every day and isn't utilised.

Edited by corax on 09/07/2017 at 12:51

All - Conventional cars on way out - Andrew-T

<< Emissions from energy production are coming down all the time, we are a big player regarding wind power which makes sense considering we are the best location in Europe, and it's starting to pay for itself. Also there are tidal turbines being installed on the sea bed in Scotland and Wales. We have some of the strongest tides in the world, we need to utilise them. >>

Yes, but. I challenge you to show that we could generate enough renewable electricity to run even a fraction of the millions of vehicles we use at present. Never mind the investment in (and consumption of) expensive cabling to supply the necessary charging stations. Will there be electric lorries as well as cars? If we phased out fossil fuels for transport as well as grid-power generation we would be running everything on wind, hydro, tide and nuclear. Is that feasible within our geographical limits?

All - Conventional cars on way out - Vitesse6

Yes, but. I challenge you to show that we could generate enough renewable electricity to run even a fraction of the millions of vehicles we use at present. Never mind the investment in (and consumption of) expensive cabling to supply the necessary charging stations. Will there be electric lorries as well as cars? If we phased out fossil fuels for transport as well as grid-power generation we would be running everything on wind, hydro, tide and nuclear. Is that feasible within our geographical limits?

There are many things we take for granted now that 20 or 30 years ago were still in the realms of science fiction. These changes won't happen next year, or maybe not even in the next 5 years, but once deadlines are set then business will respond and the technology will be developed. One thing is for certain, we cannot go on burning carbon in the way that we have for the past 200 years. For one thing it will run out or get too expensive, and for another the atmosphere can only absorb so much CO2 before we all get fried.

All - Conventional cars on way out - Andrew-T

<< ...once deadlines are set then business will respond and the technology will be developed. >>

Hmmm. The technology may be developed, but it doesn't follow that it can be expanded to replace today's demand for unlimited (cheap) travel. Just remember how Concorde was developed (brilliant advanced technology) but abandoned for mostly business reasons. And I'm sure that personal drones are a simple thing to develop, but totally unrealistic to implement.

It may be more realistic to look for CO2 capture and storage, which may be more feasible.

All - Conventional cars on way out - Sofa Spud

First to clear up one myth. We won't need any more power stations if we all go over to electric cars. Why? Because, in a sense, we already all drive electric cars, That electricity is used in the refining process to 'crack' crude oil into petrol, diesel and other products. An electric car apparently doesn't use any more electricity than would be used to refine the fuel to drive an equivalent petrol car about the same distance.

If you do a bit of searching on the internet you can find stats that demonstrate this.

Edited by Sofa Spud on 09/07/2017 at 22:53

All - Conventional cars on way out - Andrew-T

That electricity is used in the refining process to 'crack' crude oil into petrol, diesel and other products. An electric car apparently doesn't use any more electricity than would be used to refine the fuel to drive an equivalent petrol car about the same distance.

If you do a bit of searching on the internet you can find stats that demonstrate this.

Are you saying that refineries are powered largely by electricity? Better give us a link to those stats you mention.

All - Conventional cars on way out - Sofa Spud

That electricity is used in the refining process to 'crack' crude oil into petrol, diesel and other products. An electric car apparently doesn't use any more electricity than would be used to refine the fuel to drive an equivalent petrol car about the same distance.

If you do a bit of searching on the internet you can find stats that demonstrate this.

Are you saying that refineries are powered largely by electricity? Better give us a link to those stats you mention.

helpadude.com/gas-cars-use-more-electricity-than-e.../

greentransportation.info/energy-transportation/gas...l

www.cfr.org/blog-post/do-gasoline-based-cars-reall...o

It seems I wasn't quite right - it's probably the ENERGY used in the refining process rather than just electricity - presumably mostly natural gas. But the argument still stands, since that gas could be used to generate electricity instead of heating the cracking columns.

It's a development of the old claim that it takes about as much energy to produce a gallon of petrol as you get back from burning it as fuel.

Edited by Sofa Spud on 10/07/2017 at 11:31

All - Conventional cars on way out - Stanb Sevento

There are two big problems with electricity, firstly it has a very low energy density compared to liquid fuel, for one Kg of petrol takes several Kg of battery. Its like a rocket in that as you get bigger it takes more and more fuel just to lift the extra fuel. The other problem is you cant store it in any quantity, hydro power stations on standby for peak demand pump water back uphill to the reservoir at slack times for reuse later but thats a tiny part of whats needed. If we could store the power from renewables ( also jnown as the unreliables ) for use when it was needed would be a solution.

All - Conventional cars on way out - John F

If we could store the power from renewables ( also jnown as the unreliables ) for use when it was needed would be a solution.

If solar panels had nearby batteries, perhaps as part of the walls of the house, we could. And why don't wind turbine towers contain a stack of batteries?

All - Conventional cars on way out - SLO76
"If solar panels had nearby batteries, perhaps as part of the walls of the house, we could. And why don't wind turbine towers contain a stack of batteries?"

Batteries are inefficient, costly and damaging to the environment to manufacture and rapidly degrade. The only effective way to store electrical power is via hydro power schemes where spare capacity is used to pump water into reservoirs then its later used when demand requires it to drive turbines.

There's plenty of space up here in sunny Scotland for more but there's too much short term thinking for that to happen. We've now reached a stage where Scotland regularly produces all of our power from wind but we waste most of our off-peak production by having little storage.






All - Conventional cars on way out - RT
"If solar panels had nearby batteries, perhaps as part of the walls of the house, we could. And why don't wind turbine towers contain a stack of batteries?" Batteries are inefficient, costly and damaging to the environment to manufacture and rapidly degrade. The only effective way to store electrical power is via hydro power schemes where spare capacity is used to pump water into reservoirs then its later used when demand requires it to drive turbines. There's plenty of space up here in sunny Scotland for more but there's too much short term thinking for that to happen. We've now reached a stage where Scotland regularly produces all of our power from wind but we waste most of our off-peak production by having little storage.

Hydro-generation and pumped storage suits mountainous regions with low populations like Norway with high rainfall and plenty of steep valleys to build dams - that's why Norway is planning to be the first country to ban the sales of I/C cars - but it's not a plan transferrable to other countries.

All - Conventional cars on way out - SLO76
"Hydro-generation and pumped storage suits mountainous regions with low populations like Norway with high rainfall and plenty of steep valleys to build dams - that's why Norway is planning to be the first country to ban the sales of I/C cars - but it's not a plan transferrable to other countries."

We're working on it...
www.google.co.uk/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/390803...5

Edited by SLO76 on 11/07/2017 at 17:53

All - Conventional cars on way out - RT
"Hydro-generation and pumped storage suits mountainous regions with low populations like Norway with high rainfall and plenty of steep valleys to build dams - that's why Norway is planning to be the first country to ban the sales of I/C cars - but it's not a plan transferrable to other countries." We're working on it... www.google.co.uk/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/390803...5

Back in the early '70s I worked up in Aberdeenshire, before the oil boom got going properly - but the Central Belt still had much heavy industry for which power had to be "imported" from England to cope with peak demand - one winter the power lines in the Scottish Uplands were brought down by heavy snow - result was a day-long black-out over most of Scotland.

Having been on holiday in the Highlands recently, the plethora of windfarms are a major blot on the landscape which can only harm Scotland's valuable tourist industry.

All - Conventional cars on way out - SLO76
"Back in the early '70s I worked up in Aberdeenshire, before the oil boom got going properly - but the Central Belt still had much heavy industry for which power had to be "imported" from England to cope with peak demand - one winter the power lines in the Scottish Uplands were brought down by heavy snow - result was a day-long black-out over most of Scotland.

Having been on holiday in the Highlands recently, the plethora of windfarms are a major blot on the landscape which can only harm Scotland's valuable tourist industry."

It's extremely rare to have a blackout at all, certainly in the central belt where I call home. I'm sure further up in the back and beyond it's a fairly regular occurrence in winter but there's little you can do about the weather sadly.

Agree regarding the location of windfarms. There's loads of space to site then away from places of natural beauty. The massive 215 turbine Whitelee wind farm up the Fenwick Moor near Glasgow is a fine example. It's actually became a bit of an attraction itself. www.scottishpower.co.uk/whitelee/
All - Conventional cars on way out - sandy56

Edited by sandy56 on 10/07/2017 at 15:08

All - Conventional cars on way out - SLO76
"First to clear up one myth. We won't need any more power stations if we all go over to electric cars."

While we would require some added power generation it won't be as much as expected as the bulk of electric vehicles are charged at night when we have loads of spare capacity already.
All - Conventional cars on way out - RobJP

On another forum that I frequent there was a discussion regarding the new Tesla 3 - is it going to be a game changer as regards EV use, or (if it is really popular) is it just going to lay bare the problems - that you'd need acres upon acres of charging bays, which would be empty 99% of the time, for example.

One thing that did strike me was this - whilst a Tesla can be charged from a home charger, if you're unfortunate enough to have to plug it into a 'normal' socket (rather than an industrial-type blue socket or a dedicated Telsa charge point) then it gains charge at roughly 6 miles range per hour. Or about 36 hours to get a full charge.

They're also extortionately expensive to 'service', considering no oil, spark plug, engine filter changes. Annual / 12.5k mile (whichever comes first), and the first 4 'services' cost £2250.

All - Conventional cars on way out - Stanb Sevento

Storing power from a wind farm in batteries is not viable in any way. Output from a single turbine is over 16000 KWh per day on average so even storing one days worth would take something like 150 Tesla batteries. A high rise tower block for every wind farm and the electricity would be so expensive you could not buy it and the batteries would only last a few years.

There was an artical in a magazine about someone who went to live on a remote Scottish island and erected a large domestic wind turbine conected to batteries. They were car batteries stored in a shed, dozens of them, two banks both sides of the shed. He said it gave him power for lights, fridge / freeze and TV but no heating or hot water and he had to be carefull in calm weather not to let the batteries go below their minimum.

Edited by Stanb Sevento on 11/07/2017 at 18:16

All - Conventional cars on way out - Vitesse6

Another power storage option would be the production of Hydrogen, which could then be used in fuel cells to produce electricity or burnt as fuel.

There are lots of ways of moving away from carbon based fuels, it just needs the impetus to get it going. It was suggested by academics some years ago that the best way to do this would be for governments to set a cut off date of about thirty years hence for a complete ban on using fossil fuels.

All - Conventional cars on way out - skidpan

It's progress, and someone has to start the ball rolling.

I remember the howls of protest and the fight to get the lead out of petrol. Then came catalysts and there were warnings that it would be the end of civilisation as we knew it. It may not be easy to do, but at some point we will have to end our dependance on fossil fuels.

Regardless of what the Trumps of this world say, climate change is happening and we have to move with the times. Ten years ago electric cars were either a joke or a dream. They are now becoming a reality..

These are the opening moves in the next stage of motoring development.

Totally agree but what frightens me most is having to drive a hybrid like Toyota currently produce. My experience of a single Auris Hybrid was what a horrid device and my Leon TSi was just as economical in the real world and way quicker.

But there is hope. Just look at the progress Tesla have made in the past 10 years or so from being the maker of an electric Lotus Elise with a range little more than 100 miles to today where some models have a "real" range of over 300 miles and can hold 7 people and luggage yet cost about the same. All I personally need is a car than can do 550 miles without charging in the real world (its 430 miles to the lodge in Scotand so I need a bit of spare capacity) and is about the size if a Skoda Octavia yet costs less than the current Tesla prices. In 10 years 2 of those will be a reality, lets hope with increased sales prices become more realistic.

All - Conventional cars on way out - Sofa Spud

Storing power from a wind farm in batteries is not viable in any way. Output from a single turbine is over 16000 KWh per day on average so even storing one days worth would take something like 150 Tesla batteries. A high rise tower block for every wind farm and the electricity would be so expensive you could not buy it and the batteries would only last a few years.

There was an artical in a magazine about someone who went to live on a remote Scottish island and erected a large domestic wind turbine conected to batteries. They were car batteries stored in a shed, dozens of them, two banks both sides of the shed. He said it gave him power for lights, fridge / freeze and TV but no heating or hot water and he had to be carefull in calm weather not to let the batteries go below their minimum.

Battery storage for renewable energy - wind, solar etc. is already being developed on an industrial scale. Technology has moved on from lead-acid car batteries - like the difference between an electric milk-float and a Tesla Model S - literally! See: . . .

www.nottinghampost.com/europe-s-largest-community-...l

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-304...1

www.oref.co.uk/orkneys-energy/innovations-2/

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/tesla-sou...l

Edited by Sofa Spud on 13/07/2017 at 00:03

All - Conventional cars on way out - RT

Battery storage for renewable energy - wind, solar etc. is already being developed on an industrial scale. Technology has moved on from lead-acid car batteries - like the difference between an electric milk-float and a Tesla Model S - literally!

Moved on maybe but still a long way to go - a Tesla battery pack and motors weigh TWICE the weight of an equivalent power I/C powertrain and fuel system

All - Conventional cars on way out - Sofa Spud

Battery storage for renewable energy - wind, solar etc. is already being developed on an industrial scale. Technology has moved on from lead-acid car batteries - like the difference between an electric milk-float and a Tesla Model S - literally!

Moved on maybe but still a long way to go - a Tesla battery pack and motors weigh TWICE the weight of an equivalent power I/C powertrain and fuel system

The Tesla doesn't seem to suffer any ill effects from having a heavy battery pack. Since it's in the form of a flat slab underneath the floor, it gives the car a very low centre of gravity, which by all accounts gives it excellent handling.

All - Conventional cars on way out - John F

Storing power from a wind farm in batteries is not viable in any way. Output from a single turbine is over 16000 KWh per day on average so even storing one days worth would take something like 150 Tesla batteries. A high rise tower block for every wind farm and the electricity would be so expensive you could not buy it......

The turbine towers are already there - empty! I think they could be designed to accommodate at least the equivalent of 150 Tesla batteries.

All - Conventional cars on way out - Sofa Spud

On another forum that I frequent there was a discussion regarding the new Tesla 3 - is it going to be a game changer as regards EV use, or (if it is really popular) is it just going to lay bare the problems - that you'd need acres upon acres of charging bays, which would be empty 99% of the time, for example.

One thing that did strike me was this - whilst a Tesla can be charged from a home charger, if you're unfortunate enough to have to plug it into a 'normal' socket (rather than an industrial-type blue socket or a dedicated Telsa charge point) then it gains charge at roughly 6 miles range per hour. Or about 36 hours to get a full charge.

They're also extortionately expensive to 'service', considering no oil, spark plug, engine filter changes. Annual / 12.5k mile (whichever comes first), and the first 4 'services' cost £2250.

Those acres and 'acres of charging bays' will be full of plug-in hybrids, being topped up with cheap electricity to save on expensive petrol or diesel. The law of unintended consequences..

All - Conventional cars on way out - Stanb Sevento

Once we all have our electric cars and dont need petrol or diesel our dear government will loose bilions in tax. Something like 2/3 of the cost of fuel is tax, petrol is a very cheap fuel its the tax that makes it dear. So the government will have no choice but to tax the electricity or some other random thing to maintain its income. Look what happend to road tax when we all went down to £30 a year, we cant win.

All - Conventional cars on way out - corax

Just a few feet below the surface the temperature remains fairly constant all year round.

If we had started incorporating geothermal heating into new builds years ago we could have had a large excess supply of natural gas to run cars which would be a step in the right direction.

We are sitting on an enormous heat storage system yet will still use gas to heat homes.

Those same houses could also have solar panels built in to the roof at the time of build, linked to the national grid.

It costs too much I hear you say. Yep, thats why we are so backward, because profits always get in the way of progress.

It always boils down to the same problem in the end - too many greedy apes.

All - Conventional cars on way out - barney100

Pie in the sky but if all furure electric cars had compatable removed/installed battery packs then perhaps you would just drive in a service station, your discharged battery pack changed for a recharged one. Range then not too much of a problem and HMG could put loads of lovely tax on the process.

All - Conventional cars on way out - Finguz

It seems some people will quite happily believe anything they like the sound of.

Whatever happens, you can be sure it'll cost us more than we're paying now.

 

Ask Honest John

Value my car