illuminated 'keep left' bollard - petitmoi

Any help would be gratefully appreciated.

Last week, I was driving down a road (owned by the council). It was dark and as a result, I drove over the raised platform, where an illuminated 'keep left' bollard should have been. As a result, I wrecked 2 tyres and alloys.

The council will not accept responsability as they state that I should have driven with due care and attention and that the lines on the road would have been sufficient notice for the raised platform.

Can anyone offer me some advise about how to prove my case? What is the legaility with regard to illuminated 'keep left' bollards?

Has anyone else been through something similar? Did you go to court? What evidence did you show the court?

Many thanks

illuminated 'keep left' bollard - gordonbennet

I expect you have a snowballs chance in hell of proving anyone else at fault except yourself.

However i do have sympathywith you because you've most likely hit this raised section with the offside of the car, and modern lights have horrible sharp cut off to the beam pattern just where you needed it...yet pointlessly pour masses of light upwards and to the left, so if a sniper happend to be lurking up a tree on the nearside you'll spot him no trouble, handy that eh.

I dislike these modern lights which are often too bright in the lit section but due to the precise beams there is little light scatter beyond the beam at that point and due to how bright they are anything beyoond is in complete darkness contrast, problem exacerbated now that so many other cars have stupidly bright lights too.

We've discussed the light wars here recently, i feel that older generation lights were better for normal driving, they might not have been as bright in the beam but with a bit of light scatter fading outwards dark objects beyond the beam pattern weren't so unseeable.

illuminated 'keep left' bollard - Middleman

Not a chance of success.

If you collide with a stationary object it's your fault. You have a responsibility to drive so that you can come to a halt in the distance you can see to be clear of obstructions. You can't abrogate that responsibility on the basis that the obstruction was not lit. You didn't see the island and it is indeed arguable that your driving was careless.

Best to keep quiet or the council may begin to think about charging you for any damage you may have caused.

Edited by Middleman on 30/04/2017 at 13:54

illuminated 'keep left' bollard - galileo

Not a chance of success.

If you collide with a stationary object it's your fault. You have a responsibility to drive so that you can come to a halt in the distance you can see to be clear of obstructions. You can't abrogate that responsibility on the basis that the obstruction was not lit. You didn't see the island and it is indeed arguable that your driving was careless.

Best to keep quiet or the council may begin to think about charging you for any damage you may have caused.

Islands with bollards are usually in the middle of the road, was there not a full lane width to the left of it?

illuminated 'keep left' bollard - Brit_in_Germany

We are being very judgmental here. Without knowing all the details how do you know the OP was at fault? If your wheels are destroyed hitting a pothole, you might want to claim from the council, despite the pothole being "clearly visible".

illuminated 'keep left' bollard - gordonbennet

We can only go by what the OP tells us, that he hit a raised section which is normally home to an illuminated keep left bollard, what he didn't mention was any other reason for driving over the thing such as swerving to avoid a car/person/cat.

We can possibly wonder if the ground light under the bollard was still lit, not as that would made a great deal of difference, if the OP didn't see the raised kerb then a light glowing in the middle of it might easily have been missed too.

A pothole is a different thing altogther, it sits possibly 6" below the rest of the road in shadow, where a bollard island sits 6" above, so visible within light beams.

illuminated 'keep left' bollard - RT

The OP's headlights should have illuminated the kerbing round the ex-bollard - and he should have been driving at a slow enough speed to avoid the obstacle.

illuminated 'keep left' bollard - alan1302

We are being very judgmental here. Without knowing all the details how do you know the OP was at fault? If your wheels are destroyed hitting a pothole, you might want to claim from the council, despite the pothole being "clearly visible".

A pothole is very different from what the op described though - an island in the middle of the road is a lot more visible than a pothole. Also the island should be there whislt the pothole should not.

Would be good if op does come back if they can show the area on StreetView so what is being refered to can be seen.

illuminated 'keep left' bollard - Middleman

There’s nothing “judgemental” about it. The OP told us this:

“I drove over the raised platform…”

There are often road islands in the middle of roads. It’s the driver’s fault if he drives into one of them. The OP asked for advice to “prove my case”. In my opinion (which is based on what he told us) he does not have a case.

It would be interesting to learn if the street was illuminated by street lights and what the prevailing speed limit for the road was. Most councils have differing guidelines on the format of signs and illuminations they provide on road islands depending on those two factors. But I believe that failure to comply to those guidelines (or if, say, a bulb in the light had broken) would not see a case for compensation after colliding with a road island succeed.

Edited by Middleman on 01/05/2017 at 00:02

illuminated 'keep left' bollard - TedCrilly

I am with the council. If you lack the ability to recognise and identify hazards and obstacles on the highway and take appropriate action..........do I need to go on?

Next!

illuminated 'keep left' bollard - Bromptonaut

Agree with others. On facts given OP is unlilkely to have a case to prove.

Streetview and clarification of any other factors may though shed further light.

illuminated 'keep left' bollard - A Driver since 1988, HGV 2006

Sorry the guys are right ...

You cannot compare a pothole to a roundabout, and I don't think you have an excuse in either case, the rules state that you must drive at a speed that you can stop or divert should an unexpected hazard come into view, hence the teachings behind the new hazard perception test.

People often state that like in this case, when they hit something on a blind corner it was not their fault, like my brother almost did, but you cannot blame it on the obstruction, as correctly stated you must drive for the length of road you can see with your own eyes and not for the length of road you think is there.

Also roundabouts are usually almost always in front of you, with signage on the road to also tell you, and there may very well be a triangle on the road indicating a give way junction, there is never just the 1 sign.

Councils are not responsible if you fail to slow down for a pothole or any other obstruction, it is your responsibility, to see any obstruction in good time and either divert, or slow down enough to go slowly over the obstruction.

But car drivers are a funny breed, I find ( sorry for those that are not ) My friend managed to b***** up both tires going over a pothole, he live in the country and we all know how bad these lanes can be so extra care must be taken, anyway, he claimed he was not able to see it in time to slow down, so I said it must have been a sizeable hole to do such damage, he admitted it was but insisted he could not slow down and the reason he gave was because there was a car behind him.

What actually happened was he just didnt ee it until it was too late, and that would suggest he was not paying enough due care and attention at that time for the road he was on, and that is really the point, you have to drive to the conditions of both the road you are on and other elements that may affect your ability to see and to stop at whats that phrase as old fashioned as it may be it still applies, oh yes OVERALL STOPPING DISTANCE.

Finally one other element that most car drivers dont think of, fog it makes your brakes wet and increases your stopping distance, yet how many slow down sooner, after the fog has lifted even though it may still be damp in the air.

illuminated 'keep left' bollard - focussed

"fog it makes your brakes wet "

Pardon? Could you please elaborate on that?

illuminated 'keep left' bollard - petitmoi

Wow thanks for the responses thus far, even the people who have basically called me a tw#t.

Here you go, have a look at the footage my wife took, whilst I drove the route where the accident happended. Now be truthful people. Only do this once and use the same attention you would when driving normally. This will not work if you watch this several times and you are expecting there to be a hazzard. Would you have spotted the hazzard in a 30mph area?

goo.gl/photos/FLtUbbasDbXZoM1f6

illuminated 'keep left' bollard - TedCrilly

Sorry but I am seeing nothing out of the ordinary nor anything particularly hazardous. On face value it looks like you have not been in a incorrect position while approaching the junction and made contact with and driven over a kerb. If anything I am now even more convinced the issue is down to your lack of awareness/attention.

However if you believe the blame lies elsewhere get some professional advice from a solicitor. Or speak to your insurance company, your policy may include legal assistance.

Edited by TedCrilly on 02/05/2017 at 10:33

illuminated 'keep left' bollard - 72 dudes

So the missing bollard was just before a mini roundabout?

Sorry, but the only way you could have hit the island is if you were attempting to cut straight across the mini roundabout.

illuminated 'keep left' bollard - Gordon17

30 years ago, it was actually the Saturday evening after the October 1987 "Hurricane", I was in the back seat of my friend's Metro when she did something very similar, except hers was not near a junction but was actually on a right hand bend to keep cars from cutting the bend and driving on the wrong side of the road. The car was actually a write-off as the sump hit the bollard base and lifted the engine into the bonnet. The driver's foot was broken as one of the pedals was lifted onto it.

I always thought it was her fault as there where markings on the road leading upto the bollard, and you could only actually hit it if you were cutting the bend and driving on the wrong side of the road. She and her husband made a lot of effort to prove negligence on the part of the council, but got nowhere with it and it ended up going through her insurance as her fault.

illuminated 'keep left' bollard - Middleman

I don’t really know what to say!

I’m not quite sure what “illumination” you expect to be provided. The island is in a built up area, with adequate streetlighting. I also don’t know why you did not anticipate that the bollard and lamp post would be mounted on something (er, like a road island). As well as that, the dotted lines which spread out towards the island are a clue that you need to keep to the left of them.

So would I have spotted the hazard? I would sincerely hope I would. When you see a “keep left” sign such as the one here it usually means that it is marking an obstruction. The sign itself and the lamp post beyond are clearly visible. It should be apparent to a careful and competent driver that there is something in the middle of the road on which they are mounted but even if it was not, to drive so closely to the bollard is foolhardy if you are not sure what lies beneath.

I’m afraid I stand by my first reaction. My advice would be to keep quiet about this. If you threaten the local authority with action they may well see what damage you caused to the island and counter claim for that. Furthermore, I also stand by what I said earlier; your driving, in that you collided with a stationary object, might well have attracted a careless driving charge had it been noted by the police.

illuminated 'keep left' bollard - alan1302

Would you have spotted the hazzard in a 30mph area?

Yes, i would have. If you didn't you either was not paying attention to where you were going or need to get your eyes tested urgently.

illuminated 'keep left' bollard - concrete

Not taking sides here, but I have some sympathy for the OP. It the kerbed island was meant to have an illuminated bollard on it, presumably to make it conspicuous to drivers, and the bollard is missing, surely the council should have placed some other light there to indicate the hazard. Road positioning is a factor and other things too, but a missing bollard with no other indication of an island is still an unecessary hazard. Those small orange falshing lamps are the usual tempoary hazard warnings, where were they?

Cheers Concrete

illuminated 'keep left' bollard - galileo

Not taking sides here, but I have some sympathy for the OP. It the kerbed island was meant to have an illuminated bollard on it, presumably to make it conspicuous to drivers, and the bollard is missing, surely the council should have placed some other light there to indicate the hazard. Road positioning is a factor and other things too, but a missing bollard with no other indication of an island is still an unecessary hazard. Those small orange falshing lamps are the usual tempoary hazard warnings, where were they?

Cheers Concrete

While I agree it would be nice if councils responded quickly to defective street lighting, bollards, potholes etc, at the present time they all seem to be crying lack of resources and poverty (due to wicked top-hatted governments cutting grants).

Locally, I reported two streetlamps damaged by gales in December 2015, still not fixed. A bollard has been knocked flat three weeks ago and is still down and out.

(Though the council have installed cycle lanes and resurfaced several pavements at considerable expense, an indication of their preferences)

Edited by galileo on 02/05/2017 at 22:19

illuminated 'keep left' bollard - concrete

Hello galileo, try FixMyStreet. I have reported road and pavement problems and they are quickly attended to. It should work for street lamps too.

Unfortunately councils are run by people that are hidebound by the very system they work in. When money is allocated into a budget for lets assume painting railings pink, then that money will be used for that purpose under the 'use it or lose it' principle. A shocking and unecessary waste of resources. That money would not be allowes to be diverted into a more worthy purpose. Crazy but true. Wouldn't happen in a decent commercial environment but local government don't do joined up thinking.

Cheers Concrete

illuminated 'keep left' bollard - A Driver since 1988, HGV 2006

You should take the advice of others and keep quiet about it, I have not been able to see teh video as th elink does not seem to work for me, copied and pasted etc, as I said before there is something called overall stopping distance which means if an obstruction appears then can you stop without hitting it, if the answer is no tehn you are to close or driving too fast.

driving without due care and attention which usually applies to any stationary hazard when struck, usually means lack of attention/experience.forsight on the part of the driver, as noted by others if you are travelling on any road and you cannot stop for the road that you see then you are travelling too fast.

Insofar as the council are concerned, they have no liability in 90% of cases when a stationary object is struck, because as someone else stated it is your responsibility to drive at a rate that you can stop if need be.

Safe way is to assume that you MIGHT HAVE TO STOP OR SLOW DOWN, if you dont have a clear view. for eg if you are approaching a pedestrian crossing, half of it is blocked from view because of a goods vehicle or some other large vehicle, and you choose to not slow down until you can see .... you then hit someone or have to slam on your breaks, why because you assumed that no one was there, rather then the safer option of assuming someone is.

I do find it, how can I say amazing that so many and thankfully still a small percentage of car drivers fail to accept they ultimatly are responsbile for the vehicle they drive, they alone are controlling that vehicle not some god, or lucky elf, and it is your actions that decide if you make it to your destination or you don't.

RTC's are caused by only 2 reasons ..

1 .. something you did but should not have.

2 .. Something you did not do but should have.

One final thought, I am assuming that this is not the first time you have been down this road, so surely you must have had some idea of the road layout ahead ?

illuminated 'keep left' bollard - A Driver since 1988, HGV 2006

Ps elongated lines in the middle of the road, is in itself a road sign, it signifies that you are approaching some sort of hazard and for drivers paying attention that should have been enough, as stated. There is never more then just 1 sign.

illuminated 'keep left' bollard - galileo

driving without due care and attention which usually applies to any stationary hazard when struck, usually means lack of attention/experience.forsight on the part of the driver, as noted by others if you are travelling on any road and you cannot stop for the road that you see then you are travelling too fast.

Insofar as the council are concerned, they have no liability in 90% of cases when a stationary object is struck, because as someone else stated it is your responsibility to drive at a rate that you can stop if need be.

RTC's are caused by only 2 reasons ..

1 .. something you did but should not have.

2 .. Something you did not do but should have.

While generally agreeing with the first paragraph, the second comment does not cover the case of potholes hidden by standing water which fills and covers them: councils have paid out for damage due to potholes which haven't been repaired in a timely manner after notification.

There is a third reason for RTC's: actions by other road users.

You have no control over these and can not always take evading action, in spite of best observation, positioning and anticipation. (Motorway reservation crossover incidents, drunk drivers, drivers of stolen cars, for example)

 

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