Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - C4 Grand Picasso? Love the tech yet scared of it | Motoring discussion | Back Room Forum

Tue 3 Jan 2017 14:26

Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - C4 Grand Picasso? Love the tech yet scared of it - long_mck

I'm really like the look of a C4 Grand Picasso 1.6 HDI (2014). Everything looks perfect but I'm slighlty worried about the digital dash and

control touch screen.

This tech looks excellant but I'm looking to keep the car for 10 years or more. Going on my experience, tech easily goes wrong, slows or become obselete.If somethings goes wrong with the control touchscreen etc it's more catatropshic than manula knobs and buttons

Has there been many issues with the digital dash on this model or previous versions of the grand picasso?

How often are software upgrades needed? How much on average would they cost? Could you live without any of the software upgrades?

Any encouraging words or otherwise about the fallability of the tech on the C4 Grand picasso?

How much would it be to replace the dash or control console if needed?

Thanks in advance

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Tue 3 Jan 2017 14:59

Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - C4 Grand Picasso? Love the tech yet scared of it - oldroverboy.

look in the HJ car by car. Note that it will be out of warranty soon, if not already.

The 1.6 hdi is a poor engine.

ASK a main dealer for the costs of repacing the console, get a price giving them a reg number, and add many hours of work at main dealers rates.

In short, if you have doubts walk away.

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Tue 3 Jan 2017 15:01

Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - C4 Grand Picasso? Love the tech yet scared of it - gordonbennet

There are several companies about who specialise in the repair of ecu's and other control models, they have moved onto repairing some of these digital dashboards now too, by the time your one failed, if it ever did, i have no doubt someone will have a cure for a fraction of the cost of a new unit, though the car might be off the road for a week whilst they fix it.

My worries about the model in question would be the cost of electric parking brake problems, maybe make specific forums might be a source of info how reliable these are as they age.

But the biggy is the 1.6 engine, this engine needs regular oil changes with the correct grade good quality oil, i suggest ignoring completely the maker's recommendations, halving the mileage and an annual change whatever the mileage (if sooner) will help keep it healthy.

Neglected servicing will lead to excess carbon build up in the oil which can cause blockages leading to early turbo failure (this applies to any turboDiesel) and a nightmare of associated problems, there is much reading on the internet about this problem, and here there are pages to read about such failures in Ford Focus with this engine.

To be fair most people don't have any trouble, and a bit of proper care, warming up and cooling down correctly for turbo use helps no end too.

for some really frightening reading and pics showing what can happen with these

www.assuredperformance.ie/

click on the link about PSA engine carbon build up bottom left of page, its a pic heavy PDF file so best viewed on a PC, enjoy..

Edited by gordonbennet on 03/01/2017 at 15:05

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Wed 4 Jan 2017 12:06

Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - C4 Grand Picasso? Love the tech yet scared of it - John F

for some really frightening reading and pics showing what can happen with these

www.assuredperformance.ie/

click on the link about PSA engine carbon build up bottom left of page, its a pic heavy PDF file so best viewed on a PC, enjoy..

If I've read this correctly, this turbo diesel has had only five oil changes in its 109,000m life, and only one in the first 59,000, so the pics are not frightening, but understandable. I'm surprised it made the six figures.

It would be interesting to see the innards of a naturally aspirated petrol engine after such a regime. I can't understand why the oil change recommendations are so similar between petrol and diesel engines when the latter so obviously stresses and contaminates the oil more. Has anyone ever seen oil in a diesel engine that is not completely black less than 1000 miles after a change?

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Wed 4 Jan 2017 14:43

Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - C4 Grand Picasso? Love the tech yet scared of it - madf

Has anyone ever seen oil in a diesel engine that is not completely black less than 1000 miles after a change?

Yes. Our 2003 Toyota Yaris d4d after my annual service..But then I cheat.. I jack the car up under the offside front suspension so ALL the old oil in the sump drains out through the drain hole on the nearside. And I leave the oil filter off for 30 min utes to allow the dirty oil to drain.

It does not drain the dirty oil in the oil pump and galleries.. but the new oil stays clean for about 1200 miles. The car does about 1500 miles a year with an average journey length of 1 mile...I use Shell V Power to reduce carbon build up in the catalyst... (a MOT fail without a 20 mile Italian tune up beforehand)

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Tue 3 Jan 2017 15:11

Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - C4 Grand Picasso? Love the tech yet scared of it - SLO76

This is one car I wouldn't have on my shopping list if I intended longterm ownership. French electronics are not known for their longevity and even more worrying this engine has developed a terrible reputation for turbocharger failure along with all the usual maladies that strike modern turbo diesels.

Don't let the number of 1st gen Picasso's on the road fool you, the earlier car was a simpler, more robust car and the 8v 2.0 HDi was near indestructible. The later car is nothing like as long lived. I'd suggest a rethink and redirect your search towards the Japanese manufacturers. Also, do you do enough mileage for a DPF equipped diesel? Most owners don't.

Edited by SLO76 on 03/01/2017 at 15:20

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Tue 17 Jan 2017 16:22

Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - C4 Grand Picasso? Love the tech yet scared of it - peter moss

Problem with euro dashboards /electrics = the Euro health wealth and safety biodegradable lead free non violent laws on the solder used theis has a high alloy content they dont like lead as such so you end up with premature dry jointing you can see this if you get a piece of euro solder and a piece of old school lead solder the Euro one is a lot stiffer but dry joints are a common feature on french cars /electrics lucky for me my Renault main dash still works but most of the illuminated switches have gone out, so at night i have to find them with brail not the best !

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Tue 3 Jan 2017 15:20

Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - C4 Grand Picasso? Love the tech yet scared of it - long_mck

Thanks all

What specific alternatives would you suggest. Must be diesel and small engine.

Zafira tourer?

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Tue 3 Jan 2017 15:26

Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - C4 Grand Picasso? Love the tech yet scared of it - SLO76

What is your budget?
What type of usage will the car see, as in daily mileage? Will it be mostly local stop start or distance?
Do you specifically need a people carrier?

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Tue 3 Jan 2017 15:31

Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - C4 Grand Picasso? Love the tech yet scared of it - long_mck

£11000

20 - 30 miles daily, mostly local stop start

Yes people carrier, 7 seater. need it for the kids and everything they bring with them :)

Thanks

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Tue 3 Jan 2017 16:06

Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - C4 Grand Picasso? Love the tech yet scared of it - SLO76

I'd forget a diesel unless you do at least two 20-30 mile runs at motorway speeds per week. Local stop start driving won't allow the DPF to go through a burn cycle and you'll find yourself having problems.

The difference between a 50mpg diesel and 35mpg petrol people carrier in fuel over 10,000 annual miles will be less than £250 at current prices anyway so it makes little financial sense to pay substantially more for a diesel that also introduces the possibility of costly repairs.

Diesels are much harder on DMF's and clutches for example and replacement will be in excess of £1200 on one of these. Factor in possible turbo failure, high pressure fuel pump, EGR valve problems and costly injector replacement and over the span of such longterm ownership it's likely the diesel will not only give you far more grief but also cost you more into the bargain.

The one benefit however that's relevant to you would be the extra overtaking urge of a turbo diesel. If you must have a diesel people carrier I'd look at the previous gen Vauxhall Zafira with the Isuzu 1.7 diesel. It'll still suffer DPF issue with your usage but it's otherwise very robust and well liked by the taxi trade who test them to destruction. Auto Trader #DrivenByMe
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20161221074...0

The later generation does come within budget but sadly they use a Fiat designed 2.0 diesel that's well known for problems and best avoided. The 1.4 petrol turbo is available with low mileage and should be robust if maintained correctly and reasonably good on fuel. Auto Trader #DrivenByMe
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20161224081...9

Toyota Verso is a good option but a bit smaller and more expensive. The petrol is vice free and the 2.0 diesel is as good as you'll get for a modern diesel. Auto Trader #DrivenByMe
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20160818690...9

Edited by SLO76 on 03/01/2017 at 16:14

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Wed 4 Jan 2017 10:11

Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - C4 Grand Picasso? Love the tech yet scared of it - Sam49

Recently in a similar position/budget to the OP. Needed a car that could take 3 across the middle row (preferably with ISOFIX) plus a 7 seater.

Luckily we have an 'MPV specialist' nearby and we went and tried all the suspects - Grand Picasso, Grand Scenic, 5008 and S-Max. Couldn't really see past the S-Max. A bit bigger all over, more comfortable and felt more solid - although I admit the tech of the Grand Picasso was appealing.

I hunted about for a 1.6 Ecoboost but they are pretty hard to come by so in the end went for the 2.0 tdci (Zetec - pretty basic spec but everything you need). We do plenty of motorway hauls each month but, having always driven Japanese petrols, I am very conscious of DPF/ DMF woes. Luckily, as a two-car household we also have a petrol car that I prefer to use for knocking about town.

My garage is an independent Volvo specialist and sees a lot of the Volvo and Ford diesels. Their advice was that the 2.0 tdci was the one to go for and solid if maintained properly. 1.6 tdci (HDi) not as good. Time will tell if I get properly bitten on the backside and I'm sure there will be costs that I don't have with my petrol car. But I temper that knowing that I look after my cars, I have a trusted garage who is familiar with the engine and I can call on for advice, and, for our family, what the S-Max offers is brilliant - the space and versatility, quiet and powerful motorway performance even when loaded up. My kids love it (glass roof, privacy glass) and so does my wife. I think if I'd gone for any of the others I'd be always slightly be hankering after the S-Max!

However if you don't need 3 across the middle I'd also throw the Kia Carens and Mazda 5 into the mix mentioned above - Mazda 5 especially looks great and 2.0 petrol available

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Wed 4 Jan 2017 10:59

Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - C4 Grand Picasso? Love the tech yet scared of it - SLO76

The S-Max is a lovely thing to drive as far as people carriers go and the 2.0 PSA diesel is fit for high mileages (it's the same unit as used in Peugeot E7 taxis) but they're known to eat DMF's around 70-80k which costs around £1200 and DPF issues are common on cars that are used largely for local running. Ecoboost 1.6 petrol is liked but rare as you've said.

Neighbour of mine has had a 2.0 diesel for seven years and in recent months he's been plagued with minor electrical gremlins and had to replace the DMF. Otherwise likes the big car though and it's never stranded him.

Good call on the Mazda 5. Theses are good big cars I frequently recommend to people looking for a budget family hold-all in 1.8 petrol form. The 2.0 diesel is the same PSA unit the S-max uses but the 1.6 diesel is also the same trouble prone unit Ford use and best avoided.

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Wed 4 Jan 2017 11:30

Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - C4 Grand Picasso? Love the tech yet scared of it - Sam49

Just a shame Mazda couldn't get three proper seats across the middle otherwise I reckon it'd be a lot more popular. Similarly I'd love it if Toyota made the Verso bigger.

Couple of extra points about the S-Max:

- S Max owners club is a really useful and active forum for advice.

- Rear suspension (trailing arms) can wear quickly - £500 to replace at Ford dealer so check MOT advisories etc. and find a good indie!

- Ford Etis database is handy for checking a car's history.

I think I'm fairly philosophical about car ownership. At the end of the day they're going to cost you money. I research a generally reliable model that I like the look of and maintain them appropriately, hopefully mitigating against too many unexpected costs, anticipating others - and acknowledging life's bigger picture! You can twist yourself in knots otherwise

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Wed 4 Jan 2017 11:46

Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - C4 Grand Picasso? Love the tech yet scared of it - SLO76

It's a balancing act. You want reliability but also driver enjoyment and the two don't always go hand in hand sadly. Buy a car you hate driving and you'll want out of it earlier which will rise costs.

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Wed 4 Jan 2017 11:41

Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - C4 Grand Picasso? Love the tech yet scared of it - sandy56

A lot of nonsense being written about French cars.

The S-max and other Fords uses the same 2.0 HDI diesel engine as does Peugeot/ Citoren etc etc, all made in the same factory.

It is a robust engine. Mine is now 7 years old with no problems and I dont drive much on long motorway journeys. A quick blast now and then on a dual carriage way is all it gets.

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Wed 4 Jan 2017 11:57

Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - C4 Grand Picasso? Love the tech yet scared of it - SLO76

A lot of nonsense being written about French cars.

The S-max and other Fords uses the same 2.0 HDI diesel engine as does Peugeot/ Citoren etc etc, all made in the same factory.

It is a robust engine. Mine is now 7 years old with no problems and I dont drive much on long motorway journeys. A quick blast now and then on a dual carriage way is all it gets.

No one here is saying the 2.0 unit is bad at all but if you think the same of the 1.6 then you need to do a spot of research. Same with Renault's 1.9 dci from the Mk II Laguna which was a nightmare for most owners unlike earlier Renault diesels which were well regarded. As for the "nonsense being talked about French cars" well, I've bought and sold hundreds of them over the years and believe me (or not if you wish) there are good reasons why French motors have a bad reputation especially the more complex models. Of course there are exceptions though.

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Wed 4 Jan 2017 13:04

Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - C4 Grand Picasso? Love the tech yet scared of it - RichardW

A 2014 car will be fitted with the later 8V version of the 1.6 engine (DV6C released in 2011), which basically solved all the problems associated with the turbo (which were really injector clamp problems), whilst releasing more horses, and better economy.

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Wed 4 Jan 2017 13:34

Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - C4 Grand Picasso? Love the tech yet scared of it - SLO76

A 2014 car will be fitted with the later 8V version of the 1.6 engine (DV6C released in 2011), which basically solved all the problems associated with the turbo (which were really injector clamp problems), whilst releasing more horses, and better economy.

I've read this before yet my neighbours well maintained 2012 Berlingo 1.6 HDi suffered turbo failure at less than 80,000 miles, the blades broke up, were ingested by the engine and ruined it. A costly event as you can imagine. Truth is the oil feed (in the sump) is revised, however, the turbo oil feed pipe still goes right next to the DPF, nicely cooking the oil when you turn the engine off since few owners allow turbocharged engines to cool by idling for 30-60s after driving. Also, despite the redesign the injector seal (on injector 3, I think) still goes occasionally, and in effect a lot of carbon ends up in the engine, further contaminating engine oil. Ford have further redesigned this engine to create their current 1.5 diesel but you have to ask yourself why when PSA continue to use the 1.6 version. Hopefully they've finally cured its woes but only time will tell. I certainly wouldn't buy the 1.6, even post 2011. There are still loads of cases of turbo failure online even if it is less commonplace than before but then age and mileage will be a factor in that.

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Wed 11 Jan 2017 19:08

Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - C4 Grand Picasso? Love the tech yet scared of it - daveyK_UK

i would go for this

no diesel to worry about, price is good. parts and insurance is cheap

www.hotukdeals.com/deals/brand-new-fiat-doblo-1-4-...2

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Fri 13 Jan 2017 12:56

Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - C4 Grand Picasso? Love the tech yet scared of it - Gibbo_Wirral

A lot of nonsense being written about French cars.

The S-max and other Fords uses the same 2.0 HDI diesel engine as does Peugeot/ Citoren etc etc, all made in the same factory.

It is a robust engine. Mine is now 7 years old with no problems and I dont drive much on long motorway journeys. A quick blast now and then on a dual carriage way is all it gets.

I'm not sure of the 2L but a couple of years ago I looked into the service intervals of the 110bhp 1.6 diesel engine which was fitted to many Peugeots, Fords and a couple of other marques.

What was interesing was the variance of service intervals of oil changes - some stated 12,000 miles, some 13,000 (odd number), one 16,000 and Peugeot was the only one to recommend oil changes every 20,000 miles.

And Peugeot never had checking, cleaning or replacing the gauze filter in the turbo oil feed pipe in their service schedules.

Every one we inspected was blocked.

Edited by Gibbo_Wirral on 13/01/2017 at 12:57

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