Are all salesman idiots - skidpan

As readers may have noticed I an due to change to Leon (which has given over 3 years sterling performance) soon and based on my requirements came up with a shortlist. It has to be petrol, be a bit bigger than the Leon, be able to accomodate a spare and have a decent roster of kit including climate. No polished/laquered wheels.

So the list included Volvo V60 - bit too small, Leon ST - same passenger space as hatch, Ceed GDI-T - too slow, Mazda 6 - great kit, great deals but hardly any bigger than the Leon inside but 2ft longer.

So added the Mazda CX5 to our list. Had a look, perfect size, great kit, good deals but as soon as you mention the "petrol" word the salesman turns stupid. Cannot let me drive a petrol but the petrol and diesel use the same engine and drive exactly the same apparantly. If I really wanted to drive a petrol he suggested I look on Autotrader and go to another dealer.

Well I don't have to buy a car from him so he looses out.

Are all salesman idiots - gordonbennet

Probably from the production line of identical sharp suited droids, sounds like thats what you happened upon.

I'm sure another poster mentioned there being a problem getting a test drive in a petrol Mazda, a 6?, have they got something to hide, if there isn't a problem with the engine why are they going out of their way to make it appear so.

Are all salesman idiots - skidpan

I'm sure another poster mentioned there being a problem getting a test drive in a petrol Mazda, a 6?

It was me, same dealer, different idiot.

VAG are the only manufacturer who appears to actively promote petrols.

But it gets better.

Been on Autotrader like the salesman suggested and there are 10 petrol CX5's within 50 miles.

The closest is 6 miles away - at the dealer I visited yesterday. Not the correct spec but at least its a petrol to drive.

Think I will be ringing tomorrow and playing it as dumb as the salesmen clearly are. Or perhaps I should simply ask for the sales manger and ask him why his staff treat customers like idiots.

Are all salesman idiots - Engineer Andy

Perhaps in some cases its because the manufacturer (as Mazda has) had reliability issues with their diesel engined cars (as opposed to their petrol engined ones which are proven to generally be reliable) and thus are having a sales drive to keep them strong.

You may find it different looking at other makes where there is little variance in reliability between petrol and diesel engined cars. Just a thought.

Are all salesman idiots - oldroverboy.

I'm sure another poster mentioned there being a problem getting a test drive in a petrol Mazda, a 6?, have they got something to hide,

They have a budget for demonstrators and get "deals" from the manufacturer to have the higher spec ones as demos, so that people can be tempted into buying that model.

Example, when we were looking initially at a kia venga when we were still in wales, we were able to test drive a venga 2, but it was a diesel. (same for the dacia Stepway sold at the same dealer, only diesel demos available,

No dealer will have the poverty spec (usually petrol) model available for a test drive. I was told by a volvo dealer that "they do not sell petrol engined cars as nobody wants them."

so elsewhere i went... There is still the attitude that "salesman knows best" so I decide what i want and if they want to supply it at a price i am willing to pay, then i'll buy it, if not adios senor..

Are all salesman idiots - joegrundy

'Are all salesmen idiots?'

Unfair to say 'all' but 'some': yes, certainly.

Couple of months ago, went with son to take his Dacia in for first service. This is a rural area, and dealer is a Renault/Dacia/Kia franchise. Nearest depot services all, but only sells Kia.

Dropped car off and we wandered round their sales area, idly looking at Kias for sale. Approached by salesman, looked about 16, pointy shoes, c*cky little s***. Didn't look old enough to have a driving licence, TBH. Told him we had just dropped Dacia off for service. 'Well' he said 'they're OK if you want cheap and nasty'.

Collected car, asked by service manager to complete 'feedback' card. This is a well-established, successful family-owned dealership. Asked the manager if the little s*** was son (or grandson) of the owner. 'No, why?' so told him what had happened. Manager and other salesman groaned, face-palmed, and it didn't seem to come as a surprise.

Are all salesman idiots - gordonbennet
'Well' he said 'they're OK if you want cheap and nasty'.

Classic.

Wonder if his older brother worked at a Northants BMW dealer a few years ago, this bod told a chap i know who went in with a view to buying a 3 series (probably E46) to come back when he could afford one.

Had he looked out the palace window at the car this chap drove up in, he might have noticed a profession number plate on it worth roughly the price of a new 5 series, he also owns a good part of the village where he lives but you'd never know it, not brash enough to pass muster? chap never did buy a BMW.

Are all salesman idiots - Bianconeri
'Well' he said 'they're OK if you want cheap and nasty'.

Classic.

Wonder if his older brother worked at a Northants BMW dealer a few years ago, this bod told a chap i know who went in with a view to buying a 3 series (probably E46) to come back when he could afford one.

Had he looked out the palace window at the car this chap drove up in, he might have noticed a profession number plate on it worth roughly the price of a new 5 series, he also owns a good part of the village where he lives but you'd never know it, not brash enough to pass muster? chap never did buy a BMW.

As I explained to the BMW salesman in the shiny M&S suit just last week - the customer who comes in looking scruffy may well have a million or so in readies and could buy anything in the glass palace out of petty cash, but you'll never know now will you?
Are all salesman idiots - joegrundy

A further story about the same franchise.

When we went a year ago to look at Dacias, we found the franchise split on two sites. The Renault place is a bit of a palace (who pays for that?), the Dacia place is probably their original premises. OK, but nothing special.

Salesman was a bit world-weary, no pointy shoes, and we explained what we were looking for. No exact demo available, but he gave us the keys to a 12 month old Sandero 1.2 Access (the basic one) and said there's half a tank of petrol in it, give it a go, see you later. So we did. A good test drive on motorway, country roads, etc., no salesman to distract. And went back and bought one (the Ambience). When we got back he said ;no point in buying a used one, a new one is only x more, PCP, etc. Which was true.

Car was ordered, deal was done, could not have been better treated if we were buying a new Merc (except coffee was instant).

When the time comes, I shall be seeking out that salesman at that franchise. Trust is a big thing, buying a car is a big thing.

Are all salesman idiots - bathtub tom

I'm of the opinion that car salemen, estate agents and Curry's shop assistants all rotate their jobs.

Are all salesman idiots - joegrundy

You're probably right.

My son recently moved into a new build rented house.

He asked what the coiled hose thing by the front door was, and was told that it's for washing your car.

It's actually a charge point for an electric car ...

Are all salesman idiots - SLO76
No insult taken... I was a salesman at a large Mitsubishi & Proton dealer for a number of years for my sins and I couldn't agree more. The rotten attitude of most sales staff and management used to drive me nuts. Arrogant, no interest in selling customers the right product (anything and everything) and an amazing lack of product knowledge. The majority of them don't know one end of a motor from the other. I was criticised for spending too long with the punters trying to help them into a car that suited their needs.

The whole industry is geared up to discourage older more mature sales staff from entering or remaining in the trade with long hours, 9-7/8 week days and every weekend with one useless mid week day off (usually spent chasing customers and sold cars through prep) and the high pressure of sales targets. Sell at all costs! Sell em anything!

You end up with showrooms populated by overconfident youngsters with little interest in or knowledge of the cars they're supposed to sell or experience in dealing with the public while the older more experienced staff they should be working to retain move on into other Mon-Fri 9-5 jobs in order to fit in with family life.

It pains me when visiting dealers either for myself or with friends and family to listen to sales staff who don't have a clue about what they're trying to sell. One recently was busy telling a couple within earshot of me that the BMW 318i they were looking at had a 6cyl turbocharged engine under the bonnet!!!!

Are all salesman idiots - joegrundy

SLO76 - certainly no offence intended here.

What pains me, I think, is that for most of us 'ordinary' people buying a car is a big investment. One which, in some circumstances, can make or break you, let you in for a world of trouble.

I like to be honest and open in my dealings, and I respond well to people who are. I tend to search out people I can trust.

I am happy to pay the going rate - I'd rather do that than shave the cost to the bone and take a gamble. Peace of mind is important to me.

I mentioned the Dacia salesman earlier. He is a local bloke trying to get by, and his commission is fairly minimal. But he's honest and fair and I am happy to put business his way, perhaps pay a bit over the odds for some stuff, and he hasn't let us down. He's actually the sort of bloke you'd be happy to go out for a pint with.

Are all salesman idiots - SLO76
Honesty and good product knowledge lead to repeat sales but too few see this. Part of the problem is the short term view most sales staff have. The bulk don't plan on sticking to the job and don't care about the big picture.
Are all salesman idiots - Wackyracer

I used to know a car salesman, did it for most of his life. Was proof enough that they know very little about the products they sell apart from what colour it is available in.

When I bought the Citroen I had the opposite problem, I wanted a diesel but, they tried their hardest to sell me a petrol as they didn't normally sell the diesel and had to get it from France.

Are all salesman idiots - Avant

Going back to the original question - Skidpan, out of interest, why didn't you put the Golf and Octavia estates on your list? Both can be had with the 1.4 TSI engine, and both arwe bigger then the Leon ST.

Are all salesman idiots - skidpan

Going back to the original question - Skidpan, out of interest, why didn't you put the Golf and Octavia estates on your list? Both can be had with the 1.4 TSI engine, and both arwe bigger then the Leon ST.

They are on the shortlist. At this stage there is still everything to play for. The Golf SV also features.

Problem with the VW's is the cost (even using brokers). To get the 150 PS engine you have to go to GT spec and then you get such niceties as big wheels and rubber band tyres, lowered stiffened suspension and (I think) shiny wheels and hateful Alcantara seats. What you don't get is a £0 option for white and climate control. VW call it "manual climate control", its air conditioning. If you want propper climate control its another £340. Using Carfiles prices for comparrison its £21400. The Mazda, which is bigger and far better equipped as standard is £19400 with a lowish% PCP deal available.

Problem with Skoda is our past experience when test driving them. On each occation the road noise has been deafening (and that was with 16" wheels. All the road tests I have read still comment that the Skoda is noisier than the Seat and VW so I have low expectation of being impressed even though the size is perfect.

Are all salesman idiots - RobJP

The salesman we bought the F31 from at HJ in North Wales is early 50's, and has been there a decade at least. Highly knowledgeable, happy to have a chat, runs a couple of classic cars as a hobby.

I had the misfortune of dealing with one of the youngsters at HJ Warrington once. Gobby little oik, knew everything (NOT !), who then lied to 'my' salesman about the car I'd enquired about, stating that it couldn't be moved to HJ North Wales for the deal to be done, as I'd agreed to purchase it from him. I hadn't, I'd just enquired as to the exact spec. At that point, that car stopped being a possibility, and I contacted the oik's boss to explain why and what had happened, and that I wasn't ever going to deal with someone who was willing to lie at the drop of a hat.

Are all salesman idiots - barney100

1990 ish. Me, we like the car (Fiat Panda) if we can do a deal I'll pay cash so how much? Salesman, 'can't tell you how much or you will go somewhere else and try to get a better price, just say you'll buy it and sign up and we''ll tell you the price' 'Please buy the Croma instead, I get a Rolex if you do'.

Are all salesman idiots - Snakey

Don't know abut 'idiots' but I've certainly never met a car salesman with much more than a passing knowledge of their products.

I guess they're just salesman of 'cars' and as far as they're concerned you're buying whatever brand they currently work for.

It can be misleading - a couple of times I've been told blantan untruths such as a one car was chain cam when it was belt, and that the dsg gearbox 'never' needs an oil change. 5 Minutes on HJ proved both of those answers were wrong!

Are all salesman idiots - hillman

When I was making my mind up to buy an auto I went through the process of finding out how to handle the auto gearbox. When I asked a salesman, and I asked a few, they knew all about the range of colours and the finance plans but couldn't tell me what I wanted to know. Finally, at a Jaguar franchise, I saw the garage foreman. He heard me out, smiled a secret smile, then told me almost everything that I needed. I had to experience for myself what an auto box could do, like how to select a low gear before going down steep hills. I know that some of the BRs don't approve, but I don't like riding the brakes when going down steep hills.

Are all salesman idiots - Steveieb
Most car buyers are ill equipped to deal with salesmen trained in the techniques they employ to close a deal. We just don't go through the process of buying a car often enough to become proficient up against these professionals.

But the brands that have the worst reputation for reliability and resale value need to employ the best salespersons.

A friend of mine took on the almost impossible job of selling Alfa Romeo at our main dealer.
After leaving Jaguar he was made aware of the problem when he realised how few people came through the showroom door.

Those that were brave enough to enter obviously loved the look of the cars but realised that buying one may cause them lots of future anguish.

So knowing people were worried about reliability of the marque he used the technique that the dealership acknowledged the brand had some problems they had employed the finest technicians in town to fettle them back into perfect working condition.

When some of these reliability problems came home to roost he decided that he couldn't take any more stress and took a lower paid job at BMW where the cars sold themselves .
Are all salesman idiots - gordonbennet

I find the door marked exit the best way to deal when idiots try their shabby methods of extracting my hard earned, i don't balme them trying to earn a crust without having to dirty their hands, but don't insult me by assuming i'm just another lowest common deniminator and can't see straight through this rehea***d waffle.

Are all salesman idiots - Wackyracer

Some years ago I went into the Citroen dealer on the A23 outside Brighton to take a look at the (then new) C2. A suit walked up promptly and started the waffle. Fair play to him, he didn't start talking nonsense. When he asked if I had something to part exchange he looked a bit blank when I said the Volvo FM12 outside :)

Are all salesman idiots - nick62

I think I may have already told this story on here previously, but here goes:

I was in the market for a new estate car back in 2006/2007 to replace my 100,000 mile Passat. I had a fair wedge to spend and fancied a new Merc "E" class and was wandering around their brand-new glass palace.

After about five minutes wandering around the showroom of locked cars and not being approached by any staff, I came across a gaggle of them around a reception desk:

Me: ......... excuse me. do you have any details..............

Them: ............ we are busy making a video at the moment, can you wait...

I brought an ex-demo Subaru Legacy (from a Subaru dealer)!

Edited by nick62 on 16/09/2016 at 17:20

Are all salesman idiots - gordonbennet
I brought an ex-demo Subaru Legacy (from a Subaru dealer)!

Brilliant, you got the better deal in more ways than one.

I used to deliver to lots of garages, but mainly had an area from Stafford up to Anglesey and down as far as Ross on Wye, one garage in particular used to have a sales meeting every morning, i've seen potenetial customers told they had to wait to see someone and cleared off...you do not reward this type of behaviour from anyone.

If they can't be bothered to treat you with some respect in order to empty your wallet, what hope have you got once they have your dosh and something goes wrong?

Compare and contrast with where i work, foodstuffs maker, when the customer says jump we say how high, nothing is too much trouble, after well over 100 years the company is still growing at a rate of knots, good service (the product is good) sells, proved.

Edited by gordonbennet on 16/09/2016 at 18:39

Are all salesman idiots - RT
I brought an ex-demo Subaru Legacy (from a Subaru dealer)!

When I was looking at buying a nearly new Subaru Outback, all 4 dealers I tried simply said leave us your cars keys, here's the Outback, come back when you're ready - I bought one of them.

If a car needs to be "sold" I walk away, don't want to know - I'm only interested in cars "I" want to buy.

Are all salesman idiots - Miniman777

I'm not sure whether salesmen (and women) are idiots or they think and treat the car-buying public idiots.

Two tales....

Found a Cooper S convertable for the wife, viewed, test drove with a very pretty salesgirl, and sat down to negotiate.

She really pushed PCP and when I asked for payment details, tapped them into the calc app on the phone, and said "So if we are paying you an extra £3,700 over the cash price for PCP, what are you adding as an incentive?

Her blank face - as if rumbled - was a picture. I said how about a full tank, set of mats, two services etc, etc, and it was no, no, no. Still there 2.5 hours later, haggling, 'business manager' asks what he can do to help. Wife wanted black wheels, and eventually, and only coz it was 10 mins to closing time, they agreed. Talk about blood from a stone? Anyway we paid cash and the car has been superb.

Last month visited a VW dealer in Derby, test drove a Golf R. Great car and drive apart from the stupid sound actuator for engine noise that's no better than an amusment arcade.

Was semi-interested as BMW 330D x-drive was on test drive list, and he would not budge one bit on £26k screen price and expected me to pay another £600 to have sat nav s/w installed.

I walked..... Why produce a car costing upwards of £30k new with no sat nav when rival premium manufacturers do provide one?

Still, it will all begin again next April when the pensions cash in - and I suspect I'll do a lot of walking.

Edited by Miniman777 on 16/09/2016 at 19:54

Are all salesman idiots - joegrundy

What really p****s me off is this. AFAIK, my annual (retirement) income is just about, or just a bit more, than the UK average annual salary.

To me, £7.5k is a big chunk. (That would pay for a new Dacia Sandero Ambience). AFAIK, most car salesman probably don't make a guaranteed £28k a year.

I don't appreciate being treated as a second-class citizen because I won;t contemplate buying a £30k potential money pit.

Are all salesman idiots - oldroverboy.

My experience in January posted at the time

www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=112581

I took my old friend with the chevrolet aveo along to our local Kia dealer to enquire about a venga. In 3 years he has done the princely total of about 15000 miles.

Salesman, all of 2 weeks in the job insisted that a diesel would be perfect!

I had requested a rio 2 petrol spec and offer.

He kept insisting that a diesel would be perfect. I then said ok put in writing that the dealer and Kia would accept under warranty any problems arising from the normal low mileage use of the car during the warranty period provide it was fully serviced with them.

Nobody will warrant that sir.. OK so stop trying to sell us something we don't want!

And left!

Are all salesman idiots - RT

What really p****s me off is this. AFAIK, my annual (retirement) income is just about, or just a bit more, than the UK average annual salary.

To me, £7.5k is a big chunk. (That would pay for a new Dacia Sandero Ambience). AFAIK, most car salesman probably don't make a guaranteed £28k a year.

I don't appreciate being treated as a second-class citizen because I won;t contemplate buying a £30k potential money pit.

My retirement income is about half the UK average salary, SWMBO's about a fifth - whether I'm buying a £50,000+ car for me or helping the kids buy a sub 10,000 car, I won't be treated badly by anyone.

Bad dealer attitude was the sole reason a BMW X5 M Sport didn't make my shortlist.

Are all salesman idiots - skidpan

He kept insisting that a diesel would be perfect. I then said ok put in writing that the dealer and Kia would accept under warranty any problems arising from the normal low mileage use of the car during the warranty period provide it was fully serviced with them.

Nobody will warrant that sir..

I tried exactly the same at a Toyota showroom when the salesman insisted a diesel would be fine for my 8000 miles a year usage.

The salesman was insistent that the warranty would cover such problems and no letter would be necessary despite the warranty clearly stating that problems caused by inapropriate useage were not covered.

Are all salesman idiots - Falkirk Bairn

Looking to buy a brand new CRV in 2012 - dropped into local Honda franchise (now closed) driving my immaculate 13/14 yr old Xedos that I boughy in 199 rather than my immacualte 4/5 yr old Xtrail.

I was stopped on the road in, wound down the window - the "salesman" advised me that the cars "under £6,000" were round the side!!!

I drove around & OUT without stopping.

Attitude might go to explain its subsequent closure 2 years later.

Edited by Falkirk Bairn on 18/09/2016 at 21:13