Hello lovely forum - help me choose a family car - ValiantSaint

Hello everyone, as I'm going to be a daddy soon (go me!) I'm going to have to ditch my current car (Hyundai i20) at the end of the PCP agreement, as the boot space is very limited for what I need.

I have been looking at several cars, with better load spaces. Help me pick one, please!

I will need a very reliable car (as I do at least 30 miles a day - seven days a week) and it will need to be a diesel, as well. Isofix points, is a must, also.

I have a budget of around 3k to work with.

My list is:

Kia Cee'd Sport Wagon

Mk1 Fabia estate 1.4/1.9 TDi (Which I have a real soft spot for!)

Skoda Octavia Estate

VW Jetta TDi PD 1900

Ford Focus 1.6 TDCI Estate

Many thanks in advance :)

Edited by ValiantSaint on 11/06/2016 at 19:18

Hello lovely forum - help me choose a family car - RT

30 miles/day, even 7 days a week, doesn't sound enough to warrant a diesel - IMO, you need to be covering 15,000 miles/year to justify the extra cost of purchase and repairs compared to fuel cost savings.

Don't get hung up on Isofix points - most child seats on sale in UK are designed to be attached by the seat belt.

Hello lovely forum - help me choose a family car - gordonbennet

I have it on good authority via a sound regular poster at another forum that pre 2010 Diesel Ceeds didn't have either a DPF or a DMF, and from my own work being under many new Ceeds i'm impressed with how well they are put together.

I'd give the 1.6 Diesel of Doom a miss in the Focus, and that includes any vehicle fitted with that engine, unless you are absolutely 110% sure fire guaranteed (ie you know him) the previous owner has had the oil changed at half the recommended mileages or sooner, even then it would have to be so cheap as to be disposable when it starts to munch turbos....if you have an evening to kill find the thread on this forum about Focus Diesel problems.

The older the Diesel IMHO the better the chances it will be worth buying at this budget.

Course no thread would be complete without a recommendation for a Forester..:-)

Hello lovely forum - help me choose a family car - ValiantSaint

Many thanks for the quick replies. So Gordon, do you work for Kia? I like the look of the Cee'd Sports Wagon - they bore me a bit interior-wise, though. Just like my own i20..........it's a very drab place to sit! And would the lack of a DPF on the earlier ones help me as I do a lot of stop-start drive around town etc.

Is there anything that should be flagged as a problem-area on the Kias? Do they age well?

Cheers :)

Edited by ValiantSaint on 11/06/2016 at 20:16

Hello lovely forum - help me choose a family car - gordonbennet

No i don't work for Kia, i drove a car transporter for 20 years till about 6 years ago so i looked up thousands of car's skirts.

You'll have to do your own research on how good they are used, i haven't owned one, certainly a car i would consider if i was to risk another Diesel for a daily driver.

Edited by gordonbennet on 11/06/2016 at 20:22

Hello lovely forum - help me choose a family car - ValiantSaint

Ah, I see. Thanks Gordon. What's the general concensus on the little Mk1 Fabia estate, in diesel form? I really like them - I must be getting old!

Hello lovely forum - help me choose a family car - Engineer Andy

Do you really need an estate? Most of our parents coped quite well with a medium hatchback, which would give you a wider range of cars to look at, particularly Japanese cars like my mk1 Mazda3 1.6 petrol which (in hatch form) has a 360 ltr boot. Similarly with the Honda Civic and Toyota Auris (you'd be looking at a 7+ yo car for that price unless its done a large mileage). Japanese petrol cars are mostly bomb-proof (my 10yo Mazda3 hasn't [touch wood] let me down yet and keeps passing its MOT with flying colours).

I doubt if you would need to look at the estate version of the Octavia, as their hatch verson has a huge 500+ ltr boot. Given your prferance for reliability, you may wish to read HJ's reviews (Reviews/Car-by-car section, see lower down for the older cars - don't be put off by the 3 or 4/5 stars for some, as they are often comparing them to newer cars and, with mine at least, they include an apparently 'dodgy' diesel range (same issues as the Fords they shared them with).

Honda and Toyota diesels appear to be reliable though, but well out of your price range I suspect. Best to stay with a petrol unless doing over 20k miles a year (the current small disparity between petrol and diesel prices at the pumps won't last) at least, especially if the 30 miles per day (11k miles a year) is made up of lot of short journeys to the shops, gran and grandad and (eventually) to the local nursery/school and back.

I now do about the same weekly mileage as you (34 miles a day 5 days a week to work and back plus about 3500 miles other than that per year [approx. 12.5k miles p.a.]) and still would go with Japanese + petrol + C-sized (Focus/Mazda3/Golf sized with a 350 ltr boot) car. You may be able to pick up a decent estate (for the extra space) for some, though you probably limit the range of models/sub-models on offer (e.g. Mazda don't do an estate of the 3).

Be careful about choosing a VAG (VW/Skoda/Seat) with either a diesel or chain-cam petrol engine (DO NOT choose a VAG DSG automatic!) - you need to cehck the 'Good & Bad' sub-section of each review as many VAG cars have long-standing serious issues with some (but not all) of their engines. Similarly Mazda and Ford with their diesels, especially the smaller engined ones. As others have said, such diesels like regular long trips and regular (more than the manufacturers say) servicing/new oil. Petrol's (proven and reliable) the way to go for you I think, especially when on a low budget.

Hello lovely forum - help me choose a family car - gordonbennet

Can only agree about petrol Japanese.

Our 14 year old Subaru and 16 year old Landcruiser, both petrol sound and run like they just left the showroom, neither uses a drop of oil.

Daughter dropped in yesterday with one of her two cars, she's kept he 04 plate Civic 2.0S as her knockabout and dog carrier, its the second identical model she's had, she does high mileage, she took the last one to nearly 200k and no problems (bought around 100k), she's coming up to 150k with this one (bought at 80k).

Thrashes the things mercilessly, they thrive on it, this ones needed a clutch (you have no idea how hard she is on a car) and the pass airbag needed sorting out...i service it when i get to see it (daughters.:-), grabbed the chance yesterday when she called round checked my writing on the rocker cover 11k miles since last change.

Other than that neither ever gave a moments problem.

Hello lovely forum - help me choose a family car - ValiantSaint

Wow! You lot are awesome - so many replies, in so little time. My Wife is really smitten with the Kia Cee'd SW. I quite like them too (After having a look around)

Are there any major faults with this model? What's the fit and finish like on them? (My i20 is VERY flimsy) And can they cope with the high mileages?

Cheers :)

Hello lovely forum - help me choose a family car - Avant

You've got lots of good advice above: I'd just add one thing. I go along with most of what Engineer Andy says, except that personally I would go for an estate. Skoda estates, for example, are very little longer overall than the related hatchback: the same may well go for the Kia Ceed, which you can look up in the review section on this site (go to specifications).

Babies and their assorted equipment take up more room in a car than you can ever believe.

Ultimately for £3k condition matters more than make or model: try to find something that has a service history (which can be proved) and looks well cared for (which can't, but there will be clues).

If it were me, what would I end up with? Possibly something Japanese or Korean, if I could find one - but probably ending up with a petrol Focus becasue there are more of them around to chose from.

Hello lovely forum - help me choose a family car - Cyd

A colleague at work who also has two children is taking delivery of his new family car in a fortnight. IMO the ideal car: a brand new 5.0 litre Mustang!

Even with 2 kids I always had a saloon. A Rover 800 when they were young and a Saab 9-3 now. Both have impressive boots. The Saab is available in wagon form too if you really need. For 3 grand you'd be able to find a really well cared for 2008-9-10 ish example. With young kids on board, you can't argue with Saab safety - tough old birds, I know I crashed mine and then rebuilt it. I'd go petrol though, your mileage doesn't warrant diesel and the mechanical risks they bring.

Hello lovely forum - help me choose a family car - joegrundy

I'll add my thoughts for what they're worth.

On today's roads, with modern cars which often can't be fixed at the roadside, etc., I wouldn't be happy transporting children around in less than reliable cars (as I did when mine were young - no choice).

I come at this from the position as a grandfather. A year ago, my son's banger gave up the ghost. He was faced with buying another, going upmarket to a £3000 or so car, or whatever.

He decided to go for a new Dacia on PCP, £100 a month. So far it has proved to be a good decision.

Personally, in the OP's position I'd go for a Dacia on PCP. Fixed monthly cost, breakdown etc. included, peace of mind. That's what I'll be doing when my old Jag bites the dust.

Hello lovely forum - help me choose a family car - Engineer Andy

The problem I would have with Dacias is that they appear to be under-powered (the Sandero has a 1.2 ltr 75 bhp or a buzzy 0.9 ltr turbo-petrol petrol engine, both of which may need to be worked very hard when fully loaded to make progress, leading to sigificant drops in mpg [like the Ford 1 ltr Ecoboost]), and to get the space apparently required, the OP would need to look at:

1. the Duster, which by all acounts (see the review section) is the least good of the Dacia range (whether the new one will be any better is not yet proven), or;

2. the Logan MCV (estate), which seems to suffer less issues, but has the same low-powered engines as the Sandero and is only an NCAP 3 rating, which, to be frank, is poor for a car that came to the amrket only 3 years ago (my 10yo Mazda3 is a NCAP 4 rating car for comparison).

They are very cheap for the base to medium models to be sure, but I would still have my doubts, especially with the Renualt connection. Having breakdown services as part of cost shouldn't be a factor, as reliability is more important that the level of breakdown cover (which you can source a good firm spearately for under £100 p.a.) If a Japanese firm had done the same (basic models with slightly older but proven/reliable technology), then I'd thoroughly recommend them over getting an older-but (considered) reliable car.

To be honest, that's what Nissan used to do (and why I bought a basic 1996 Micra as my first car over a Honda/Toyota/Mazda [too expensive at the time for me]) before Renault got involved.

Sadly not any more in my view, though perhaps the dull-but-roomy (sufficiently? hmm) Nissan Pulsar might be a worthwhile contender if the reliability turns out ok (not much on the 'Good & Bad' section, though more likely because not many people are buying them to comment), especially as its engines are a bit more peppy. I suspect they'll be some very good deals on new/nearly new ones with PCP etc available, given they aren't really selling in great numbers. I saw some offers of nearly 45% off for ones less than a year old, and 30%+ off new models via this website - possibly finance deals might spread the cost enough to make them affordable if the mileage doesn't go too high.

Hello lovely forum - help me choose a family car - ValiantSaint

Back again! I've gone down the PCP route for a very long time - I get fed up of dumping lots of money into a car for three years, only to give it back and start again. If I buy outright, the car's no good by the time it's three years old anyway (I do a lot of town driving)

I really fancied a diesel, for the extra power (I always end up with a low-powered petrol model) and fuel economy (as I barely get 40mpg now, what with all the town driving)

And with a little'un on the way, me and the Wife are tigtening our belts a great deal at the moment, so a PCP deal is another burden we can do without......

I did also think about a saloon - hence the Jetta........are VAG cars so bad nowdays? I loved VWs back in the day. I really like the Mk1 Fabia estate, but I've been put off by the engine infomation. If I did sway towards the Fabby, what's the better engine - 1.4 TDI or 1.9?

Thanks

Edited by ValiantSaint on 12/06/2016 at 18:55

Hello lovely forum - help me choose a family car - Engineer Andy

In my opinion, VW's reputation has suffered (and of VAG group more generally) a lot over recent years, even putting aside the recent major issue of 'dieselgate'. Many reliability problems, primarily with their twin-clutch semi-automatic gearboxes, but others as well (you can see by reading the 'Good and Bad' sections of each VW/Audi/Seat/Skoda car reviews here) - far more problems than their PR/advertising department appear to admit to.

Up until recent times, those departments did a very good job in convincing most people otherwise. Now that dieselgate is upon us, people (and hopefully VAG) are finally waking up to the fact that they may have spent too much on flash and not enough on good quality engineering and customer service. Its a real shame, as the Golf and Leon are cars I really like in most respects, but I won't buy one if unless and until their major problems are properly dealt with.

I would strongly advise you read the reviews and compare different makes/models to see - you may be surprised given your previous experiences with VW.

Hello lovely forum - help me choose a family car - ValiantSaint

Thanks again, Andy. I completely agree with you on the VW quality aspect. They have taken a big slide in recent years - that's why I was looking at the older Fabia. Are they just as bad? I've been on a few places looking at info on them - most people seem pretty happy with them, as cheap load-luggers. Many of the 'Combi' Fabbys seem to be owned by older owners, as well.......

Do the older 'PD' diesel engines suffer from DPF problems? Do they even have one?!

Edited by ValiantSaint on 12/06/2016 at 19:46

Hello lovely forum - help me choose a family car - Engineer Andy

I'm not an expert on the diesels, but it shouldn't matter in your case as you really should be looking at a petrol car for the type of usage/mileage profile.

Hello lovely forum - help me choose a family car - Cyd

I really fancied a diesel, for the extra power (I always end up with a low-powered petrol model) and fuel economy (as I barely get 40mpg now, what with all the town driving)

The power: that's one reason I suggested the 9-3, it has a 2 litre turbo engine. Mines an Aero with a tune to 270hp, so is no slouch, but I'd suggest the 2.0t for you at 175hp as being th ebest all round for a bit of go combined with economy.

Seriously, your driving does not warrant a diesel. Diesels take an age to warm up compared to petrols and so give no economy advantage on shorter town drives. Petrols will get warm quicker and so reach their economy quicker and be more comfortable in the winter with heat from the heater.

You could always consider having an engine pre-heater fitted too.

Do not, however, make your decision based on disparet opinions on a forum alone. Get out there and test drive a few different models and decide for yourself what you want out of a car and which suits your requirements.

Hello lovely forum - help me choose a family car - ValiantSaint

Thanks, Cyd. I do a 20 mile run everyday on the motorway, whilst also factoring in around 10 miles of (very) stop start town driving. Would a diesel still be ok?

Hello lovely forum - help me choose a family car - Cyd

Thanks, Cyd. I do a 20 mile run everyday on the motorway, whilst also factoring in around 10 miles of (very) stop start town driving. Would a diesel still be ok?

the best answer I can give is maybe

Another problem with a £3k deisel is that it will almost certainly have a DMF and you're bound to be buying something that might need a clutch during your ownership. A diesel will almost certainly need a DMF with the new clutch which puts the bill up considerably.

Some petrols do have DMFs but petrols are easier on them than diesels. My Saab has a DMF, but even with nearly 400Nm of propulsion it's already 60k into it's second clutch and all is well.

Hello lovely forum - help me choose a family car - Ian_SW

We've found for a family car, by far the most important factor is how usable the boot is. In particular, you need to be able to get a folded buggy across the back of the car flat on the floor so the parcel shelf can close correctly.

This takes out a surprising number of cars which have apparently large luggage space (at least when measured in litres). We dismissed an Ibiza estate for this reason, and I suspect the same would be the case for the Fabia as both are quite narrow cars.

Your best bet with 3k to spend is something reasonably common, but a bit unfashionable, and slightly too small to be popular with minicab drivers. The Ceed would fit in this list (though I think you've be ok with the hatch which may be cheaper), as would the Hyundai i30 or a Toyota Auris. A Focus or Astra would be ok too, but avoid a Golf, A3 or BMW 1 series as you'd be paying £2000 for the badge and £1000 for the car in that case.

The Octavias now worth about £3k are from the era of not very good petrol engines (the 1.4 is absolutely awful to drive, the 1.6 not much better, and the 2.0FSI which does drive ok prone to using nearly as much oil as petrol). Most of the Diesels will have been snapped up by minicab drivers, but if you can find a 1.9TDI in decent conditon for the right price it would be a good choice though.

Hello lovely forum - help me choose a family car - ValiantSaint

Here's a picture of the buggy we ended buying (It's the Maxi Cosi Loola - www.maxi-cosi.co.uk/gb-en/pushchairs/loola-3.aspx) in the back of the i20 (The thinest one I could get!)

i.imgur.com/IQAcHaE.jpg

Can you see the problem? - bit cramped, eh? I carry loads of other stuff too (coolbox is for picnics!)

I did like the Kia Cee'd SW, but I'm really drawn towards the Fabby (God knows why!) I thought the Fabia with a boot space of 426 litres, compared to 295 litres in the i20, would have been big enough? (I did see that the Kia's well over 500 litres with the seats up - wow!)

Many thanks :)

Hello lovely forum - help me choose a family car - Metropolis.

How about one of these? www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20160509377...p

or the Kia equivalent

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20160531446...p

Hello lovely forum - help me choose a family car - gordonbennet

How about one of these?

or the Kia equivalent

So many of these threads could have been answered in one post had either of these thoroughly decent cars been offered here in estate form, Hyundai/Kia missed a trick, they had two cars that had they stuck decent squared off estate back ends on would have sold thousands, just when other makers stopped doing real mid sized estates and went for lifestyle sloping rear shapes with narrowed rear openings.

Hello lovely forum - help me choose a family car - ValiantSaint

What did you end up buying?

Well, to cut a long story short, I have found out that I'm still locked into the PCP until early next year, so I can't make a move yet.

And after a lot of 'flip-flopping' I have found that the Kia would indeed be the best bet.

As some of you have said that the DPF came in around 2010, would that be on all the facelifted models, or just ones that are 10 reg? How do you tell? I'd like to get one of the face-lifted models, as they are better looking and get more gagdets!

Many thanks ;)

Edited by ValiantSaint on 11/08/2016 at 17:06

Hello lovely forum - help me choose a family car - Steveieb
One last thought Valient. Have you either considered

A) An Audi A 4 Avant with the brilliant PD engine which has no Dpf and is fitted to all those Passat taxis that were so popular in the early 2000 s. The 1.9 Tdi 130 is a great choice and the avant looks so cool 15 years on.

B) Rover 75 tourer fitted with the brilliant BMW engine.

All within budget.

Grateful everyone's views and opinions.
Hello lovely forum - help me choose a family car - ValiantSaint
One last thought Valient. Have you either considered A) An Audi A 4 Avant with the brilliant PD engine which has no Dpf and is fitted to all those Passat taxis that were so popular in the early 2000 s. The 1.9 Tdi 130 is a great choice and the avant looks so cool 15 years on. B) Rover 75 tourer fitted with the brilliant BMW engine. All within budget. Grateful everyone's views and opinions.

Thanks for the reply, stevieieb. I have indeed looked at the lovely A4 'B6' Avant. I really, really like them. My worry is, as I'll be buying a fifteen year old model, it'll be ragged to death. I was worrying about DMF failures, as well. My Brother in law has one, and it gets a right battering, and keeps going! I thought the Kia would be a more sensible bet - newer, hopefully lower mileage (how many is too many for an 1.9 Tdi?) and more toys, as it were. My heart wants an Audi, my head wants the Kia!

Edit: Just to throw another car into the mix: Does the earliest diesel I30 Estate have a Dpf? Saw one today and it looked quite nice!

Hello lovely forum - help me choose a family car - Happy Blue!

To make one more point. Be careful of your back! Putting baby into a car in a car seat puts a huge strain on your back. The higher the car, the easier it is on your back. Nothing too high, but a small MPV or SUV, will make life so much easier. For 210 miles a week, petrol should not be ruled out and the difference in fuel cost between petrol and diesel over a year will not be huge.

Have a look at older model Hyundai Tuscon/Kia Sportage, Honda CRV, Ford C-Max -those sort of things. Your back will thank you.

Hello lovely forum - help me choose a family car - ValiantSaint

Good point - I hadn't thought of that. We've bought an Isofix seat base that should make things easier!

I fear a bigger engined petrol car will be a no go - my job is VERY stop-start........I average 40 MPG in a 1.2 litre i20 :(

I think it's either the A4 Avant 1.9 TDI (B6) if I can find a good one, or the Kia Cee'd SW 1.6.

Hello lovely forum - help me choose a family car - ValiantSaint

Sorry to double post, but how about a saloon A4? (God, when does the madness end?)

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20160818691...0

Edited by ValiantSaint on 18/08/2016 at 21:20

Hello lovely forum - help me choose a family car - Charles Nolan

You could fit an elephant in there! Loads of space!

Hello lovely forum - help me choose a family car - ValiantSaint

Have you got one? Is it worth saving a few hundred quid and buy the saloon A4, rather than the estate? (Which seem to be sold at a higher price everywhere....)

Hello lovely forum - help me choose a family car - ValiantSaint

You'd never regret buying the estate. Look at both a saloon and estate. That version of the A4 is regarded by Audi fans as one of the best ever made. A mate is on his second estate.

Thanks for the help. I really want the B6 estate, but I'm scared I'll buy a duffer! I know to look for a 1.9 version with no CVT - anything else?

EDIT: Is it bad that my 'sensible' side is making me look at MK2 Toyota Prius? :(

www2.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016080264...3

Edited by ValiantSaint on 25/08/2016 at 15:50