It's the Honda 1.6 SOHC.
Haven't got the Haynes manual yet.
Does a engine mount have to come off?
Are there known difficulties?
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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Hi Toad,
Not sure about having to remove an engine monuting as I have never done one of these, reason being the acknowledged EXTREME difficulty in undoing the crank pulley bolt. Stories of large men jumping up and down on long scaffold poles abound ! Officially you remove the starer motor to fit Honda Tool No. 12345*$??@B (!) to lock onto the ring-gear, but I have heard of cases where the engine and box have to separated to fit a bigger/stronger locking tool. So, I recommend these to local dealer, and make sure the owner gets a Quoted price, so that if it runs over on book time it is the dealers problem.
Regards, Adam
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Just out of curiosity, why are crank pulley bolts done up so tight? From what I can remember, 5 cylinder Audis are done up to 250 lb ft on the torque wrench, using a special Audi tool which is effectively a 2:1 torque multiplier. That's 500 lb ft which seems excessive to me. Why not just use a locking tab?
Richard Hall
bangernomics.tripod.com
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Richard,
Beats me too. On the 5-cyl engines it may be something to do with inherant vibration periods, but as you say some seem ridiculously over the top.
But part of the problem on some Honda engines may be direction of rotation - despite engine turning anti-clockwise as viewed from "front", it still has a conventional right-hand thread,I think, so bolt would tend to tighten in use.
Regards, Adam
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Toad,
Adam is right some of these crank bolts can be a devil.
I've done a few of this engine type over the past 12mths without resorting to complete despair. Determination and somewhat oversized tools in the workshop are the answer. Some techies are very good with the finer points of cam sender outputs, the rest of us reach for a scaffold pole before we even know what the job is.
Your car should be fine if the crank bolt comes off OK, if you don't damage the valve cover when removing it and if you fully understand the tensioning procedure. The final tension is not done at the "timing mark" position but displaced by 90 degrees.
Check the water pump is smooth and that the tensioner bearing is too. You should have a steel tensioner that doesn't suffer shattering the same as the plastic ones.
Yes you will need to take off the engine mount.
Depending on the exact engine code and tech source I have three torque figures for the crank pulley...115Nm,165Nm or 185Nm.
Give it an oil change with some nice semi-syn while you are at it, and before you tear the pants off it! **
Good luck, be in touch.
MM
**Too late?
Note: This timing belt information is given without warranty and based on up to date information at the time of posting ;-)
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MM
I'm intrigued by the advice that tensioning is done at a point 90 degrees away from the timing position. I know it's often recommended that timing belts are rotated a couple of turns before final tensioning, but I'm intrigued why it must be checked at a certain engine/camshaft position - this indicates that tension varies as the engine rotates, which seems unlikely. I'm sure I'm missing something here. What?
Regards
John S
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John,
Well as long as you bear in mind this explanation is from a wielder of scaffold poles, not a design engineer....
Have you ever tried to set a camwheel in a certain position and find there are some points at which the valve spring forces conspire to move the wheel round to a point "it" wants to settle to??
Well when you very slowly rotate an engine sometimes you notice this effect tends to push the camwheel round and "catch up" with the crank pulley. At this point it tends to introduce slack to the timing belt on what should be the tight driving side.
I assume on engines where the tension set position is at some rotational point from TDC the makers are aware the above effect may be produced at/near to TDC and in turn spoil the tension setting.
With engines such as these, where the tensioner has a spring that applies the correct tension, it is surprising how little force these springs have. I guess the timing belt driving side tension must be 100% before the tensioner spring can be trusted to take up the slack to the correct tension.
Does that make sense??
MM
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David
Thanks; I can see what you mean. The cam needs to be in a position where rotating the crak is putting a load and tension into the belt. I'm assuming too that the spring tensioners probably have a relatively small range, because these belts shouldn't stretch significantly in service.
Regards
John S
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Probably to keep the car in the dealer, who is the only one with the proper tools!
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Are you saying the dealers are the only ones with scaffold poles then?
MM
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I've bottled it.
Reckon I'll be taking the car to Lindfield Rover who once put a new rear bush in my swing arms for free. [1]
I was hoping to give Mr Moorey the job[2] but it seems the Tune-up boys are too frightened to get their hands a little grubby... ;-)
[1] In my excitement I foolishly tipped them far more than I would have been charged.
[2] 'Cos he rocks.
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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Warners of Tewkesbury:
88.13 quid plus the price of the belt. (And on the old one they gave me an alternator belt free.)
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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I was hoping to give Mr Moorey the job[2] but it seems the Tune-up boys are too frightened to get their hands a little grubby... ;-) [1] In my excitement I foolishly tipped them far more than I would have been charged. [2] 'Cos he rocks.
I wasn't aware that he had a balance problem. Should he see a doctor, or just put a beermat under one leg like those dodgy bar stools?!
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I wasn't aware that he had a balance problem. Should he see a doctor, or just put a beermat under one leg like those dodgy bar stools?!
;-)
I'd have thought just a symptom of 'Tune Up Engineers' lightheadedness caused lack of excercise brought on by passing any job that might involve breaking into a light sweat on to the main dealer! ;-) ;-) ;-)
I've booked it in now but if I decide to have a go myself can I be sure that applying 280 ft lbs to the cam pulley won't damage it's bearings?
I'm itching to test my Halfords 'gaurenteed to 400 ft/lbs' 15 inch breaker bar. Previously it's only been used to damage spark plug threads!
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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Hey Toad, COME ON, we are all friends here surely, and I think you are a little unfair !
It is certainly not a case of not wanting to get hands dirty (although most of us DO use latex gloves, so we must all be soft, or worse !!, or sensible), and we certainly break sweat for our customers (even if it is sometimes mentally),but we are a mobile operation specialising in engine diagnostics. We can do most routine servicing engine-wise, but have to draw the line when major workshop facilities are likely to be required.
AND, we certainly don't recommend main dealers very often, but when a job is highly likely to go pear-shaped they generally represent the best deal for the client. If "book time" for a job is 2 hours, and they are charging £50 an hour, it is better than "round the corner" at £20 an hour who take all day on it.
Hope you don't take offence.
Regards, Adam
PS. Who said anything about the cam pulley ?
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Hey Toad, COME ON, we are all friends here surely, and I think you are a little unfair !
Was only joking but I think you knew that!
AND, we certainly don't recommend main dealers very often, but when a job is highly likely to go pear-shaped they generally represent the best deal for the client.
That's my view. I wanted AM to do it 'cos I *know* he'd do it right.
Anyone else I take it too I'm going to assume will botch it. I'd rather chase rover than a bloke in a back street garage.
If you call round a bit Rover will beat Halfords prices anyway.
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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On the subject of cam belts it prompted me to do a quick price search as mine is due in 5K.
Main dealer :- £200.00 Vat Pts & Lab. Extra for the tensioner should it need replacing.
Local Garage Swindon :- £147.00 V,P&L. Tensioner = ~£45.00
Local Garage Bristol :- £130.00 V,P&L. Tensioner = ~£45.00
It pays to shop around but I suppose confidence in the garage comes high on the list.
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It's going in for it's new belt on Friday.
Anything i can do to make their life easier? Spray plus gas on some nuts etc?
Also the Oil filter looks pretty awkward to get at. Is it possible to get at it with a standard chain filter wrench?
What about a snazzy hex filter wrench that fits over the base of the filter? [1]
[1] Yeah - I know I could simply look!
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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You need a decnet air impact gun to release the crank pulley bolt on the Honda D16 motor - a drop of oil into the air inlet of the gun usually ups the torque for those stubborn bolts...
It's a very fine thread, capable of enormous torque loading - not sure why it has to be SO tight.
MG-Rover Questions? forums.mg-rover.org/
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"Are you saying the dealers are the only ones with scaffold poles then?"
No, but we have some b***** big hammers!! (lol)
MG-Rover Questions? forums.mg-rover.org/
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