peugoet 206 - cant rotate crankshaft, can i rotate camshaft??? - aluno

taking the fuel pump off on my 1.9D, the problem is im struggling to take the crankshaft cover off, the haynes manual is not to helpful on this matter,

i can get to the camshaft sprocket tho, can i rotate that instead or is it far too risky?

thanks

peugoet 206 - cant rotate crankshaft, can i rotate camshaft??? - dave1973

Hi, I assume you are trying to time the engine. You should be ok using the cam but be careful. The other way you could try is to put it in gear and jack one wheel off the ground and rotate the wheel and that will turn the engine. Assuming you have a manual gear box of course.

peugoet 206 - cant rotate crankshaft, can i rotate camshaft??? - aluno

yes it is a manual, im trying to align the locking holes on the fuel pump, which gear shall i use? and how much force will be required to turn the wheel while in gear

thanks

peugoet 206 - cant rotate crankshaft, can i rotate camshaft??? - Peter D

I would not rotate the engine via the cam shaft procket.

Why can you not use the bolt on the end of the crank shaft.

Regards Peter

peugoet 206 - cant rotate crankshaft, can i rotate camshaft??? - aluno

Cannot remove the crank shaft cover without removing the drive belt dont want to have to take off the drive belt for obvious reasons

Thanks

peugoet 206 - cant rotate crankshaft, can i rotate camshaft??? - bathtub tom

The camshaft rotates at half crankshaft speed. If you try to turn the engine over by turning the camshaft you'll be exerting at least twice as much force via the cambelt as it would ordinarily experience. Do you want to risk it?

Why can't you reach the crank pulley retaining bolt/nut?

Jacking a wheel up to turn the engine will be easier in a higher gear, but will require greater movement of the wheel for relative engine movement and vice-versa.

peugoet 206 - cant rotate crankshaft, can i rotate camshaft??? - Peter D

The front of the crankshaft pulley is not covered. ??? Regards Peter

peugoet 206 - cant rotate crankshaft, can i rotate camshaft??? - aluno

yes it is completely covered, with a fort knox-esqe style cover, and the cover is build around the drivebelt, so i have to take it all off if thats how i was to do it, im just going to rotate the wheel it sounds alot easier. i havent got to turn it alot.

ill see how it goes now :)

peugoet 206 - cant rotate crankshaft, can i rotate camshaft??? - aluno

ok i must be doing something wrong because i put it in fith gear and had a wheel jacked up and rotated the wheel 2 rotations and the timing belt didnt move, do i need the ignition on or something?

thanks

peugoet 206 - cant rotate crankshaft, can i rotate camshaft??? - Peter D

With only one wheel off the ground the crank must turn if it really was in gear, did you try other gears. Regards Peter

peugoet 206 - cant rotate crankshaft, can i rotate camshaft??? - aluno

yes i tried it in 3rd gear too, still no movement, i har one rear wheel off the ground but i dont think that matters does it, does the ignition matter?

thanks

peugoet 206 - cant rotate crankshaft, can i rotate camshaft??? - Peter D

You have to have a front wheel off the ground. If you do not know that then I do not think you should be playing around with changing the injector pump as this is going to end in tears. The car is front wheel drive not rear. Regards Peter

peugoet 206 - cant rotate crankshaft, can i rotate camshaft??? - madf

I am sorry. Anyone who talks of needing ignition on on this matter is clearly not competent to deal with this issue.And refusing to remove belts but trying to turn an engine over by the camshaft!

Such ignorance means bigger problems ahead imo.

(Apolgies for my bluntness but either the OP is a winduup merchant or he is not competent to do the job_.

Edited by madf on 20/06/2010 at 23:01

peugoet 206 - cant rotate crankshaft, can i rotate camshaft??? - aluno

yes i agree, i have not once said i am competent at the job otherwise i wouldnt be posting up topics requireing help, which is what this forum is for, or have i got that wrong too,

i was meerly seeking clarity, and what a bigger problem then a completely non function car? imo thats about as big as the problem gets,

removing the belts for this job is not completely nessecary. i was seeking the method to do so,

i follwed instructions and the desired effect was not achieved, i was asking if there were instructions missing, or if i had done something wrong, none of which you have adressed in your above post,

to the others in this forum that are actually helpful i very much appreciate your help

peugoet 206 - cant rotate crankshaft, can i rotate camshaft??? - aluno

i meant i had the front wheel off the ground and the rear wheel, i jacked up one side of the car and put it on axel stands for safety, then i rotated the front wheel,

peugoet 206 - cant rotate crankshaft, can i rotate camshaft??? - galileo

If the crank does not turn when one front wheel is rotated with the car in gear and the other front wheel stationary, the transmission from engine crank to road wheel must be broken, unless you have wedged the clutch pedal down or the gear lever is not selecting a gear at all.

peugoet 206 - cant rotate crankshaft, can i rotate camshaft??? - aluno

ok i think ill just have to put it all back together and take it to a garage, thanks for the help

peugoet 206 - cant rotate crankshaft, can i rotate camshaft??? - Peter D

But I thought it did not run. Why are you taking the pump off. All very unclear. Regards Peter

peugoet 206 - cant rotate crankshaft, can i rotate camshaft??? - zookeeper

putting it all back together...what? the jack? you have only got a wheel in the air so far.....whats to put back together?

peugoet 206 - cant rotate crankshaft, can i rotate camshaft??? - aluno

ok so ill try and clarify the story,

was going down the road last week and went over a speed bump, less than 20mph, heard a grinding noise and the car cut out,

AA turned up and tested everything then said that fuel was not reaching the engine,

i checked the pump in the tank and it is fine, i assumed it would be the fuel pump in the engine bay.

i started to take the pump out, i.e. exhaust manifold, erg valve disconected pipes wires etc,

to take the fuel pump out i have to remove the injector pump sprocket, this is on the timing belt. before i removed it i wanted to align the camshaft and injector pump to lock them using the timing holes just to be safe, i could then bolt the spricket in place and remove the pump without displacing the timing belt,

i jacked the car up on one side the drivers side front and rear wheel are in the air, i then put it in fith gear and rotated the front wheel, the sprockets did not move, the timing belt remained stationary.

i tried it again in 3rd gear and again rotaated the wheel and again there was no movement,

is there anything else that needs clarifying?

peugoet 206 - cant rotate crankshaft, can i rotate camshaft??? - Peter D

Stick it in first gear and turn the lifted front wheel. Tell us how far it will rotate. How did you check the lift pump in the tank. Regards Peter

peugoet 206 - cant rotate crankshaft, can i rotate camshaft??? - aluno

ok, so put the car in first gear and could not generate the force needed to rotate the wheel,

put the car in third gear and marked 12 o clock on the wheel and fuel pump sprocket.

rotated the wheel 2 revoloutions and the fuel pump sprocket twitched but didnt move,

i checked the lift pump by removing it from the tank, there was nothing rattling inside and it is a manual pump that uses the suction from the injector pump i assume because there are no eletrical connections apart from the fuel gauge resistor connections, i.e 2 thin cables going into the pump which is for the resistance to be measured on the fuel sender then this reading goes to the fuel gague

peugoet 206 - cant rotate crankshaft, can i rotate camshaft??? - Dyaneman

I hate to say it, but it sounds rather like your timing belt has failed.

Edited by Dyaneman on 22/06/2010 at 14:23

peugoet 206 - cant rotate crankshaft, can i rotate camshaft??? - aluno

oh dear, is it salvageable?

peugoet 206 - cant rotate crankshaft, can i rotate camshaft??? - Dyaneman

Yes, but the engine fitted determines the level of damage. If it is a 2.0 HDI I believe the head design makes use of fingers which open the valves, as with the 2.1 XUD. In this case usually the fingers break when the valves are hit by the pistons, and repair is fairly cheap, consisting of a new timing belt, and replacing the broken fingers. It is possible however that something other than lack of maintainance caused the belt to fail (when was the belt last replaced?) such as a failed crank pulley.

If it is the 1.6 HDI, I have no idea, I have no experience of that engine. I don't think you have the 1.9 DW8 engine, as you have already mentioned having a lift pump on the fuel tank, which AFAIK the DW8 never had.

What you need to do is have someone of a mechanical bent look at it, but the only things that could cause what you describe (the cam not turning when turning a wheel with the car in gear) are timing belt failure or a failure in the drivetrain (which would not stop the engine going, unless the clutch had somehow broken apart and taken out a crank sensor so causing the lack of running and the break in drive) but I consider that rather unlikely.