Toyota Corolla - Returning with an untaxed, un-MOT car | Motoring discussion | Back Room Forum

Mon 14 Jun 2010 11:09

Toyota Corolla - Returning with an untaxed, un-MOT car - VaughanV

Hello all

I've been living in Morocco for the last 2 years with my trusty 06 Corolla. It is a full UK spec bought brand new in St. Albans.

Now we've decided to return to the UK.

We find ourselves in a chicken and egg situation.

We can't buy a tax disc without a MOT. We can't get a MOT without getting in to the UK.

We are having to drive from Morocco through Spain and France with our vehicle that will not be taxed anywhere. I'm expecting that we can buy insurance online and print off the emailed cover note (but I might be wrong on this score?)

We're concerned that the moment we approach Dover the customs people will give us grief or that on the way home (Bedfordshire) we'll be stopped at least once by the police. We fully intend to get the vehicle back in to the "system", but this will take a few days at best, given having to wait for a tax disc once an MOT has been passed.

Can anybody be kind enough to explain the way forward for us?

Thank you

Vaughan

Edited by Avant on 20/06/2010 at 17:41

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Mon 14 Jun 2010 11:41

Toyota Corolla - Returning with an untaxed, un-MOT car - Auristocrat

Visit:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/BuyingAndSellingAVehicle/ImportingAndExportingAVehicle/DG_4022583

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Mon 14 Jun 2010 16:41

Toyota Corolla - Returning with an untaxed, un-MOT car - Collos25

God help you if you get stopped in France they will throw the book at you.At all points of ferry entry your car will be scanned you are liable for all the back tax, charged with having no insurance and mot.and anything else they can think of.You are supposed to re register the car in its new country after 6 months obviously you have not done this.What have you used for insurance the last two years, can't you find a buyer for the car where you are and fly back it would be much simpler.

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Wed 16 Jun 2010 00:32

Toyota Corolla - Returning with an untaxed, un-MOT car - Bilboman

Expect the Spanish Guardia Civil to give you and your car more than a casual once over - a British registered car coming from Morocco, entering Spain and merrily on its way to the UK does not exactly melt into the background in Andalusia. If you cannot provide proof of insurance on demand, the car may be clamped or impounded.

Just out of curiosity, what exactly would have happened if you'd had some kind of run-in with a Moroccan motorist or pedestrian in the past year? Given that the car has had no MoT and therefore no valid insurance in all this time... We all know Toyotas are reliable and there is *probably* nothing wrong with the brakes, steering, gears,... BUT...

Good luck with this somewhat mad, misguided adventure. If you do by some miracle get past all kinds of Spanish and French uniforms , make sure there's a tow truck waiting for you at the White Cliffs to whisk your (online-insured) car straight off to a pre-arranged MOT appointment.

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Wed 16 Jun 2010 07:47

Toyota Corolla - Returning with an untaxed, un-MOT car - WellKnownSid

You'll need to put the car onto a transporter and get it delivered back to the UK. Oh, and as the registered keeper you'll also be liable for the non-payment of road tax fines in the UK - you can't simply 'not tax' a UK vehicle.

You can drive a UK vehicle in the EU for up to six months, provided it is road legal in the UK. Which you haven't, and it isn't.

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Wed 16 Jun 2010 08:31

Toyota Corolla - Returning with an untaxed, un-MOT car - pmh3

Whilst you cannot do it strictly legally I suggest that you can minimise risk.

Get a Moroccan CT - I would guess that they have a similar system as in France. Black tapes on lights should be sufficient. That at least proves roadworthyness. (Many UK insurers only require that a vehicle is roadworthy, although some do insist on MoT).

Ensure that you have correct insurance documentation - you may be able to get cover in Morocco even on UK plates. Not supposed to be done by insurers, but for example in France some French Insurance companies will still provide cover for English registered vehicles that are 'awaiting' registration transfer. You only have to look around the airport carparks in the South of France to see many older UK registered cars , with French insurance stickers and CT.

That you should get you back to Calais with minimal opportunity for problems.

From Calais book yourself a MoT appointment in Dover for the day of travel and go straight to the garage when leaving the Port. (Some people may suggest that you can book an appointment in Bedford, but you are trying to minimise risk).

Morocco is not in EEC so I believe that there is no reciprocal requirement for your car to have had UK road tax during the time abroad. And if you have declared SORN for your time away it certainly has been Off UK (and EEC roads).

An alternative maybe for transfer of ownership (ie sell it to your wife or similar) on the day before travelling to UK. That should get you out of the UK RFT fines situation.

As I said, minimisation of risk is the only practical option.

Edited by Avant on 20/06/2010 at 17:42

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Wed 16 Jun 2010 08:54

Toyota Corolla - Returning with an untaxed, un-MOT car - Collos25

There are to many flaws in your plan both regarding tax and the insurance.The Uk border police will have records of every vehicle ,it does not matter what happens now it is what has happened in the past.Insurance companies are not stupid even in Morroco

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Wed 16 Jun 2010 11:17

Toyota Corolla - Returning with an untaxed, un-MOT car - pmh3

Have a read of......

www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/europe/crossing-eu-...9

I am not endorsing what is on this site, but it does give a variety of personal experiences of people who have found themselves in a similar position. But possibly a little out of date?

insurance companies are not stupid??

As I have said the OP should take no chances with insurance cover, (we do not however know what he has done in the past). As long as tells the truth to a Moroccan company and they are prepared to issue cover what is the flaw? But what he must have is valid documentation.

Tax and MoT however is another issue. There are defined rules with defined penalties, how he chooses to exploit these rules is upto him. A strategy of risk minimisation is the best he can do.

Edited by pmh3 on 16/06/2010 at 11:19

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Wed 16 Jun 2010 12:11

Toyota Corolla - Returning with an untaxed, un-MOT car - LucyBC

What you are proposng to do is difficult but not impossible.

Insurance is required to drive in Morocco so if you are using your car there you are breaking the law but there is no legal requirement for continous insurance in the UK or EU so until you drive in the UK or the EU the authorities here or indeed in Spain and France will have no interest whatsoever in your past insurance record.

Morocco is a participant in the Green Card scheme). However the Green Card is not insurance - it is evidence of insurance.

Green Cards are no longer required in the EU but they are very useful proof of a valid insurance policy and are much more instantly recognisable and likely to be accepted if you pulled up at the side of a Spanish or French road than an emailed cover note or policy document. So when you insure your car (which you should do in any event) I would ask for one. Do not rely on a certificate printed out on a cheap printer.

With reference to the other threads it is a common misapprehension that if you don't have an MOT then you are not insured.

In almost all circumstances an insurer will indemnify a vehicle with no MOT and if a policy is in place they are always required to indemnify the third party.

They may refuse to indemnify the owner of the vehicle for his own damage or injury if there is no MOT and an accident is caused by a fault that the MOT should have picked up but that is true (MOT or not) if the accident resulted from negligence in maintaining the vehicle.

Furthermore any more than third party indemnity is not an EU legal requirement.

To be properly insured you should inform the insurer that the vehicle is not MOTd and what you intend to do at the time you take out the policy or you may be failing to disclose a material fact. You may need a special quote for this.

With reference to an MOT having a non-MOTd vehicle on a UK road at this age is an offence but it is not an offence on a French or Spanish one. Both countries require the vehicle to be roadworthy and compliant with their laws but the MOT has no legal standing. Suggestions have been made elsewhere in this thread about "proving" your car is roadworthy. They may be worth following.

You will certainly need to be compliant with all applicable local regulations regarding equipment carried in your vehicle.

You also need to carry your UK logbook.

As to the tax, not having a road fund licence is a UK revenue offence but it will not automatically make your car illegal in either France or Spain.

French and Spanish vehicles driven in the UK (and vice versa) are subject to reciprocal arrangements on road fund taxation which mean that if (say) a car is in France for longer than six months then it has to be registered in France and pay French tax . That *should* not apply in your case as you will be in short term transit.

Whether the French or Spanish authorities will be interested in a revenue matter affecting th British authorities I think is highly questionable.

However the greater risk (perhaps the greatest risk) is they believe you have been tootling around their country for more than six months without re-registering - as many expats do - and avoiding local taxes - in which case they may well lift the car and decide to argue it out later. It is thus vital you keep any documents which prove dates of entry and exit.

Lastly if you get through the journey unimpeded you cannot drive the vehicle on UK roads until it is taxed and MOTd - save to a UK testing station for a prebooked test so ideally that needs to be booked just before you arrive at a UK port - so you are certain you can meet the appointment.

Furthermore unless you had SORNd the vehicle you will probably be pursued for payment of the back tax once having returned to the UK.

So as I said what you are proposing is difficult it is not impossible.

It could be a trip of a lifetime (in both senses) and you should not undertake it without consideration that you may face some considerable legal wranglings in the course of your journey.

If you want to bring the car back to the UK I would suggest you put the car in a container in Morocco and ship it back, booking it in for an MOT at portside and travel as passengers on the container ship (usually great fun) or fly back to Britain.

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Sun 20 Jun 2010 12:50

Toyota Corolla - Returning with an untaxed, un-MOT car - VaughanV

Good people

Thank you all so much for the input provided thus far. It had answered many questions for us and shows what a grey area this topic is.

I'd like to provide a bit of clarity on a few points from my side.

1) Although the car was in Morocco for almost 2 years, I never succeeded in getting it imported and registered and taxed in Morocco. The country is a bureaucratic nightmare to the extent that our local customs people could not tell us what was involved and required. They at least provided us with a work-around that kept the car in the country legally and to their satisfaction. Almost 2 years - I kid you not! It's one of the reasons we have decided to return to the UK because it is nigh on impossible to get anything done in this country. If you've been to Morocco you'll know what I mean.

2) I registered the car as exported with the DVLA. A query on their website shows that their records reflect this status.

3) I have bravely/foolishly contacted the DVLA about this matter because the way forward is not clear at all. I got 2 responses. The first said that I could not use the vehicle on the road in the UK in an untaxed state UNLESS you're on your way to a pre-booked MOT. The second response said:

"I regret to inform you that you can only drive straight to the MOT Testing station when having a prebooked MOT. You will not be able to go home first then take the vehicle for an MOT the next day."

So what if I arrive at Dover at midnight? The nearest Toyota MOT centre is in Canterbury. A mere 30 miles further is my home and prefered MOT centre.

If challenged, should I take the mick and say that because my car is so heavily laden with our earthly goods that we can only manage 5 miles an hour, thus getting to our pre-booked MOT (which we can do on the road courtesy of the internet) in the morning?

The issue is that the car will stuffed to the gills with our stuff. Unloading and filling the MOT centre with our gear and then repacking is not a pleasant thought.

Ideally we'd like to pull up to our home, unpack the car and then go for the MOT. Or am I being greedy and pushing my luck trying to have it all my own way? :)

4) Driving across Spain and France is something we have done twice before and in total only ever saw once 1 police car. I fully intend to buy (via the internet) fully comp insurance before we leave Morocco. We'll have an insurance cover note printed off to cover the EU insurance angle. The point I'm not clear on is this: I'm commencing my journey in Morocco, so where should insurance commence from? Buying a British policy with my home address, but at the time the vehicle is abroad but returning to the UK, does not seem right.

5) I never received any official paperwork from the DVLA declaring the car exported in their eyes. I asked for it to be posted to Morocco, but it never arrived. Half of the post sent to us in Morocco never arrives and if it does it takes 6 weeks. I'm expecting that when trying to re-enter the DVLA system that this missing piece of paperwork will trip us up. I'm asking them to resend their paperwork and hopefully it gets here - otherwise it'll have to go to our UK address. Not having proof of registration abroad might be a problem too. (I'm now regretting moving to Morocco with my car.)

Any further insights? I fully intend to write back at the end of this saga to let you all know how it turned out.

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Sun 20 Jun 2010 13:14

Toyota Corolla - Returning with an untaxed, un-MOT car - LucyBC

On 2 and 5, as far as the DVLA are concerned the car is exported and it does not matter to them whether you received your post in Morocco. This makes it more complicated than a mere MOT matter. You will need to re-register it. Someone has already posted DVLA guidance on how you do this.

In simple MoT cases you don't need to use the nearest test centre - just be travelling to a prebooked one.

I have a client who regularly drives his VW camper van from the midlands to a prebooked MOT on the south coast every year (although the fact that he is a client might give some indication as to the attitude the police and other authorities have to this).

As I mentioned in a previous post the vehicle needs to be roadworthy or you can be prosecuted in any event.

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Sun 20 Jun 2010 15:00

Toyota Corolla - Returning with an untaxed, un-MOT car - pd

I have no idea what they actually check at the channel ports but I've driven cars through which I know are not on the insurer's database, registered as " trade" status an in one case no road tax and never got the slightest bit of interest.

I suspect they have a "watch" list of number plates they are looking for.

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Fri 16 Sep 2011 12:00

Toyota Corolla - Returning with an untaxed, un-MOT car - d3viou5

Holy crap......you guys have experienced exactly the same thing that i have been going through for the last 3 months!!!

Please please please read this and give me your thoughts!!

I have been working in Morocco for the last 12 months. I have notified the DVLA of my export of the vehicle. A toyota Landcruiser. We were told by our employer that there would be no problem getting yellow plates on our car for registration in morocco, which would solve our problem. But they havent done it. I have been to the customs office in casablanca and rabat, as well as contacting the US embassy and a transitor who has told me reliably for the last 3 months that the problem will be solved.

Now our 6 month tourist visa has expired along with our insurance, so we are both illegal and uninsured. How did you arrange to keep your car in Morocco for 2 years legally?? I have been having a nightmare with this. We only have 8 months of our contract left and i really need to keep the car here so we can drive it home.

This is even before we have the issues with driving the thing back across europe as has been described here..........

Can anyone offer any advice on how they solved these problems?? Seriously Moroccan Beurocrasy is on a whole other level!!

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Sun 20 Jun 2010 17:41

Toyota Corolla - Returning with an untaxed, un-MOT car - Avant

"Driving across Spain and France is something we have done twice before and in total only ever saw one police car".

Yes, but this time as you say your car will be loaded to the gills with your earthly goods. There's a good chance that you'll be stopped at every border, and possibly at other times too if you're overloaded.

Is it worth looking at the cost of shipping car and luggage back to the UK?- or even selling the Corolla in Morocco and buying another here?

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Thu 24 Jun 2010 07:53

Toyota Corolla - Returning with an untaxed, un-MOT car - carr

I live in France and see at first hand the volume of cars travelling the autoroutes stuffed to the gills with holiday gear. They're doing nothing illegal, the gendarmes are more interested in speeding offences and cars with Dutch plates.

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Tue 23 Nov 2010 09:38

Toyota Corolla - Returning with an untaxed, un-MOT car - VaughanV

Time for the update as to how this saga turned out.

1) We decided to take the ferry from Bilbao to Portsmouth. The car was heavily laden and this reduced the risk of breakdown. It also worked out cheaper to take the ferry compared to paying out for fuel, accomodation and tolls. It was also quicker by about a day.

2) We entered Spain via Malaga and drove across Spain to Bilbao in a day. We were detained at Malaga for a quarter of an hour while customs checked us out. This was not surprising to me seeing as it is highly unusual to see plates such as ours coming from where we did. Finding nothing awry they apologised for slowing us down and waved us on.

3) The next day we boarded the ferry along with mostly British-registered cars. Much less stressful watching Brits abroad getting plastered on duty free booze on the ferry than wrestling a steering wheel. :)

4) We arrived in Portsmouth at dusk (on Wednesday) and passed through passport control without any fuss. Nobody gave the car a second look.

5) We drove to where we were staying in Hertfordshire via the M25. We arrived at 9pm.

6) The next morning (Thursday) we drove to the dealership which serviced the car and put it through its MOT. Took receipt of the car at 5pm. Obviously the DVLA local office would be closed if I could have beaten the rush-hour traffic by some miracle. This therefore had to wait for the next day.

7) So the next morning (Friday) I made my way to my nearest DVLA office. I took a number and waited my turn to be seen by a customer services rep. I found the requisite form to import a vehicle in to the UK and filled that in while I waited. When my turn came, I verbally explained my situation and offered what paperwork I could. Common sense prevailed and the customer services rep merely asked for my V5C and payment for a new tax disc. I was told a new tax disc would not be issued on the spot, but would be posted to the registered address of the vehicle. The tax disc arrived on Wednesday the next week.

My Conclusions:

1) Big Brother is not all pervasive in the UK.

2) Some of the people who had posted responses to my initial posts in this thread are abviously trolls and spoilers for the DVLA.

3) The law around this issue needs revising because it is impratical, ponderous and expensive.

4) Common sense does still prevail in the DVLA if you find the right person. I had emailed the DVLA twice before departing for the UK and got 2 different answers via email. I even phoned the DVLA and spoke to someone and got a third unique answer.

Edited by VaughanV on 23/11/2010 at 09:47

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Tue 23 Nov 2010 10:09

Toyota Corolla - Returning with an untaxed, un-MOT car - Collos25

I am glad it went ok one point though what would have happened if you had been stopped in the many road checks that are in the UK while traveling from the port. No way critical just interested.

Edited by Andy Bairsto on 23/11/2010 at 10:12

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Tue 23 Nov 2010 15:33

Toyota Corolla - Returning with an untaxed, un-MOT car - Westpig

1) Big Brother is not all pervasive in the UK.

2) Some of the people who had posted responses to my initial posts in this thread are abviously trolls and spoilers for the DVLA.

3) The law around this issue needs revising because it is impratical, ponderous and expensive.

4) Common sense does still prevail in the DVLA if you find the right person. I had emailed the DVLA twice before departing for the UK and got 2 different answers via email. I even phoned the DVLA and spoke to someone and got a third unique answer.

1, Never has been, although ANPR and similar means you are more lilely to be caught out, than you would have done in the old days.

2, Which ones?

3, Why? It's not the fault of legislators here that you found a foreign country's bureaucracy too difficult to deal with, if you had been legal in Morocco with a UK exported vehicle, you wouldn't have had any of this worry, you could have driven it straight here on the Moroccan paperwork and then swapped things back as you have done.

4, Someone has obviously dealt with it in a pragmatic fashion and good for them. It remains the case though that you drove the car in this country and committed offences i.e. no tax and no MOT. In the big scheme of things, not a big issue as it was most temporary and you put things right as soon as possible..and you were in a difficult position in some respects..but YOU put yourself in that position and the obvious answers to remain totally legal would have been send it in a container (as recommended above) or put it on a trailer when you got to the EU.

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Fri 16 Sep 2011 13:56

Toyota Corolla - Returning with an untaxed, un-MOT car - colinh

Travel up through Spain overnight to Santander or Bilbao - do it regularly and you don't see any "Trafico" - ferry to Plymouth or Portsmouth bypassing France. Then sort out your UK problems.

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