As a rough idea after how long (time or miles) should spark plugs be changed?
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check the service interval for your engine. If it's a closed-loop emission controlled engine then the interval is likely to be 24k/2yrs or longer. If the car has no catalyst or is open loop controlled the interval is likely to be shorter (probably 1yr/12k).
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Depends on the vehicle manufacturer. Vauxhalls with Coil/distributor ignition should have plugs checked and replaced if necessary at 18/20k. Later Vauxhalls with direct/distributorless ignition only need them at 40k, at the same time as changing the cambelt!
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Anyone know an internet site selling spark plugs. It's £212 to have them changed in my MB, I think I'll get my hands dirty if I can save on that.
PB.
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hi
what was the £212 for
go to halfords and get some they will cost £30 at the most and they are easy to remove and install.
James stephenson
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Beware of inexperienced advice.
Whilst MB may rip off for some things I suspect there is some justification for a charge that must include the best part of 2 hours labor.
pmh (was peter)
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PB: what model is that? Seems a remarkable amount!
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>>PB: what model is that? Seems a remarkable amount!<<
It's an ML430 so has 16 plugs. I think the £212 was plus VAT as well, at my local Mercedes dealer. I imagine that it is a bit more complicated than your average plug change. I think I will see if I can find a local specialist, Andy Gayle is too far away.
PB.
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Who has quoted you £212? Seems a huge amount.
Contact Andy Gayle www.mercedesservicing.com and see how much he wants for the work - even if you are not near it will ive you an idea if the quote if sensible - and if so the reasons for it.
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Anyone know an internet site selling spark plugs. It's £212 to have them changed in my MB, I think I'll get my hands dirty if I can save on that. PB.
Try gsf and eurocarparts (see HJ's faq1 for the links to these two companies).
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Does anyone have long-term experience of Bosch Platinum plugs ?
The service manual for my Chevy, fitted with Bosch Platinum and OBD II emmissions control, states that the plugs only need to be changed during the major service at 100k.
Do they really last 100k ?
Kevin...
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Champion Platinum claim upto 100k.
Fiesta Zetec schedule says 40k.
pmh (was peter)
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Recent Chevrolet and Cadillac models, imported into the UK require no maintenance until 100,000 miles, except oil and filter changes. Good job they don't have Vauxhall cambelts! These only last 40,000.
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When I last had a petrol engined car they used to cost me 4 for £1.00. Whats happened with them?? Gold plated perhaps.
alvin
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When plugs were £1 for 4, they had to be changed every 3,000 miles and engines had to be rebuilt every 50,000. Alvin, plugs are much improved and closed-loop emission control provides a better environment.
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Roger. I agree with the time example on needing to rebuild the engine but the replacement plug renewal was 10,000 miles.
alvin
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Not gold;latest ones are platinum plated.
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Regardless of how often they should be changed, they should be removed more frequently to stop the threads seizing up. See previous threads seeking help for seized-up or snapped-off plugs.
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For anyone running on lpg, I've been recommended to change plugs at 10k. Manufaturers interval was 30k.
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For anyone running on lpg, I've been recommended to change plugs at 10k. Manufaturers interval was 30k.
That would surely be different for each car manufactuer though.
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Possibly, I was just offering an example to demonstrate that lpg changes things. The ignition system has to be in tip-top condition. A good lpg installer will insist in new leads too.
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I agree with everything Nick and DD say ref Ignition system requirements for operation on LPG.
I would like to add that some mainstream engines that were specified with 1.0mm to 1.3mm plug gaps for gasoline operation, are fitted with spark plugs having 0.75mm gap, for LPG. This is to try to give the same service intervals as when running on gasoline.
Reduced gaps are needed due to a higher gap breakdown voltage with LPG than gasoline. This is because the mixture of air and fuel in the gap, pre firing, is homogeneous with LPG. However, with gasoline, liquid droplets aid "conductivity" of the gap.
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Regardless of how often they should be changed, they should be removed more frequently to stop the threads seizing up. See previous threads seeking help for seized-up or snapped-off plugs.
Which is precisely why I never leave plugs longer than 12,000 miles without taking them out. And since they are not expensive, while I've got them out I might as well fit new ones.
Richard Hall
bangernomics.tripod.com
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My VW needs them changed at 20000 miles but I do them at 12000. I notice a distinct improvement in responsiveness and economy. Also the condition of the plugs give me a chance to assess the state of the engine.
I always put a very small amount of copper grease on the threads which prevents seizing. Also I always use a length of hose pipe to start inserting the plugs into the block, that way if the plug is cross threaded it will slip on the hose.
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Previa and Maxima, both platinum, changes at 60,000 miles (100 K)according to handbook.
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Every 2 years or 20000 miles. More often if vehicle is used in stressful conditions.
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Interesting suggestion of copper grease. I have always used carbon powder puffed on but copper grease sounds better.
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The copper grease is essential.
Especially in the old Ford OHV engine that had a tendency to rust its threads.
Cheers - Jon S
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VW Passat 1.8T standard plugs (platinum)
Run on only petrol for 20k miles, then converted to LPG and run for another 20k miles. No misfiring or poor economy yet. It has done 40k miles without a plug change. Haven't even checked them either. Might check and possibly replace them next year when do full service/cambelt change.
Gap was not changed for LPG either. It's a turbo, so it is built to stand up to more heat, so at part throttle, should not have a problem. If you run at full throttle/high revs for miles and miles, you might get a problem.
Motorway speeds are barely pushing this engine.
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Normally due to be looked at at I think 80k miles just changed a set in a BMW at 90k but would have done another 30k.Take them out and have a look but I will be suprised if there is a problem.
I must say that it probabley took longer to write the mail and get an answer than to take a plug out and check it.
Edited by Collos25 on 20/12/2012 at 22:11
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The biggest factor in long plug life is unleaded fuel.
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My advice would be to half the recommended mileage change, as the plugs wear the gap gets bigger ! more load on the coil pack or leads.
In recent years as plug changes have got longer and longer due to manufacttures trying to stretch the service period to make the servicing periods look more appealing to lease companies !
I would only ever fit plugs from the main dealer to make sure its the exact recommended plug. I had so many cars with emmission issues or running issues caused by aftermarket plugs.
plugs that have the wrong resistnce value can cause havoc with the ECU due to excess electrical noise and put excessive loads on the coil causing a spike back to the ECU.
A cheap plug can turn out very expensive when its blown a coil pack and spiked an ECU !
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My advice would be to half the recommended mileage change, as the plugs wear the gap gets bigger !
Can't you just regap them? Mine run at a relatively tight 0.035" (0.9mm), so I was expecting some electrode wear since small gap=larger current flow, and there was really very little after ~40 odd thousand miles. Not a high mileage but very cheap plugs.
Don't understand the concept behind the multi-tip ones. Isn't the whole idea with platinum plugs to reduce the amount of metal around the nascent flame kernal? The spark only jumps to one tip anyway, or am I missing something...?
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The spark will always travel the shortest route, so one ground electrode of the multi-tip type will get the bulk of the wear / erosion until the gap to another tip becomes smaller, then THAT one will start wearing, and so on. It's just a way of spreading the wear.
The real point with precious-metal plugs is to make the narrowest possible centre electrode that doesn't wear out too quickly -- the narrower the point of the electrode, the more readily a spark will jump.
My old Suzi GT380 triple likes NGK Iridium plugs, they last far longer than conventional plugs and simply never need re-gapping after being initially gapped to 25 thou' (the old points ignition needs all the help it can get to fire the dense fog of fuel & 2-stroke oil).
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The biggest factor in long plug life is unleaded fuel.
´Seeing that all petrol is unleaded why is it a problem.
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Modern iridium tipped plugs are recommeneded for change 70,000 to 100,000 miles.
(They are not cheap... but the gaps do not change)
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Personally I think all this recommended service interval stuff is a load of cobblers. True the manufacturer designed and built your car, but that's as far as his knowledge of it goes. He has no idea of the type of journeys you do, how hard you drive it, what sort of climate you operate it in etc. He is therefore not best qualified to say when and how often or not it should be serviced.
The recommended service intervals only apply to a car when it's new and are largely sales pitch in any case. As soon as it takes to the road and accumulates mileage it isn't new anymore. Certainly by the time a car is three years old the original recommendations have gone right out the window. There is no specification by which your spark plugs should be changed, or indeed other service items replaced. If your plugs look like they need renewing then change them. If they don't then leave them and wait till they do.
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"Personally I think all this recommended service interval stuff is a load of cobblers."
I disagree. Some guidance must be issued, otherwise some people would never service their cars.
Of course it's crude, but it's better than nothing.
As for waiting until something "looks" as if it needs renewing - that could be dangerous indeed. For a start, you would need to assume everyone would actually inspect components, some of which are critical to safety. And you would need to assume people could correctly judge if something needed renewing.
If there's no service schedule it just wouldn't get done by some. As it is, there's no compulsion to service your car and that's why MOTs are necessary; in an ideal world they wouldn't be.
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"Personally I think all this recommended service interval stuff is a load of cobblers."
I disagree. Some guidance must be issued, otherwise some people would never service their cars.
Of course it's crude, but it's better than nothing.
As for waiting until something "looks" as if it needs renewing - that could be dangerous indeed. For a start, you would need to assume everyone would actually inspect components, some of which are critical to safety. And you would need to assume people could correctly judge if something needed renewing.
If there's no service schedule it just wouldn't get done by some. As it is, there's no compulsion to service your car and that's why MOTs are necessary; in an ideal world they wouldn't be.
I think you have largely missed the point KP. I'm not saying that cars don't need to be serviced, far from it in fact. What I'm saying is cars don't stay new for very long, and so the original manufacturer's servicing schedule does not apply to any car just as soon as it has age and mileage on it, so it baffles as to why people take the service intervals as gospel. A fuel filter deteriorates with age, not mileage. If the car had done 10,000 miles in a month since it was last serviced the fuel filter would still only have been subjected to fuel for a month. Whereas if it had done the same mileage in five years and the filter was changed on a mileage basis it would've been sat in the same fuel for five years. I know which of these scenarios is worse, but I'm not sure everyone else does.
People mention long-life platinum tipped spark plugs that do 50,000 miles. I'm sure that they are capable of this, but only if that mileage has been covered in a relatively short time. But people's interpretation is that the plugs will last 50,000 miles whatever, and for however long it takes to do it. High mileage means long journeys, and an engine that is running at optimum temperature and efficiency. 75% of all engine wear occurs in the first five miles of any journey. Low mileage combined with all short trips is not good for your engine, and so in this case it must be serviced more frequently. That is what I mean when I say that the manufacturer's service shedules have to be taken with a huge pinch of salt. It's up to us in the motor trade to explain to people that car servicing is ongoing, and a common sense approach taking into account the customer's type of mileage is required.
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People mention long-life platinum tipped spark plugs that do 50,000 miles. I'm sure that they are capable of this, but only if that mileage has been covered in a relatively short time. But people's interpretation is that the plugs will last 50,000 miles whatever, and for however long it takes to do it.
I am sorry but this is technical rubbish. 70k miles is average wear and tear. Plugs do not deteriorate with age: especially not iridium tipped ones.
Some people on this thread have attitides to car maintencance more relevant to pre 1980s technology... when car engines were simpler and made of materials vastly inferior to modern ones and with methods far removed from modern computer controlled and checked mass production.
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I am sorry but this is technical rubbish. 70k miles is average wear and tear. Plugs do not deteriorate with age: especially not iridium tipped ones.
Some people on this thread have attitides to car maintencance more relevant to pre 1980s technology... when car engines were simpler and made of materials vastly inferior to modern ones and with methods far removed from modern computer controlled and checked mass production.
And I suppose you have never removed a set of plugs from a Zetec engine that according to the manufacturer are supposed to last 40,000 miles but are in fact knackered after half that? And I also suppose you've never come across a Ford with a misfire either, or any engine with the MIL lamp on and an emission fault and wondered why you can't really get to the bottom of it? Computer technology or not, the fact is that even modern petrol engines are still only about 30% efficient at best. At the same time emission requirements are becoming ever tighter. This means the engine's margin for error is getting less. Spark plugs as well as everything else need to be in tip-top condition otherwise emission faults will eventually occur.
Edited by Railroad. on 27/12/2012 at 20:36
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You should check the specifications and recommended service interval for your particular car.
Many cars are now speced with platinum plugs and a change at 60k/5yrs. Certainly this is the case for my wifes Rover and my Saab.
However I changed the plugs in both cars at about 40k.
I would recommend you do not leave plugs in an alloy head for 5 years before trying to change them. Take them out and put them back at least every 2 years and preferably every year. Clean them if you feel the need. This is because they can become siezed in the head and break when you try to remove. Suddenly a £25 plug change turns into major head work.
I always put a little copper grease on threads.
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It's well worth reading the torque setting info as per the link below :
http://www.sparkplugs.co.uk/pages/technical/torque-setting.htm
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