I wouldn`t be seen dead in a Hyundia or Kia ;-)
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I dunno, it's easy to mistake my VAG PD (even with all the magic electronic gubbins doing the injection) for a tractor.
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Yer, and mine. I love oit for being a bit rough tho
The last proper, you can rely on it to run forever, diesel was the XUD. I had one in a 405.
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I wouldn`t be seen dead in a Hyundia or Kia ..
You might if they produce a model suitable for a hearse conversion :-)
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Fitting a DPF filter seems a bit of a cop out instead of proper programming in the ECU.
Euro IV emissions regulations could be met by tuning the ECU - I know because my 2003 Mondeo TDCi was Euro IV without a DPF. But the far tighter regulations for Euro V means a DPF is almost certainly needed and why the manufacturers started developing these on Euro IV cars.
My guess is the next big thing will be small capacity turbos (or turbo/supercharged) such as those from VW, Ford and PSA... and then sometime in the future we will all be surprised when these complex forced induction engines are going wrong and are costly to fix. For example we'll find people complaining about failed turbos (did they let them cool down before switching off the engine) or failing to properly maintain them by skimping on servicing costs.
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I think in ten years time we will see more XUDs in 25 year old 306s than these modern over complex diesels. Its why I just would not touch one.
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Ah joy. I remember my old Montego estate with its Perkins motorboat engine ... rotten car, but a dam' fine engine. Currently running a SAAB 2.2 TID chain can diesel chug chug chug but fine when it's warmed up (after about a fortnight ... ), and I expect it to last forever with plenty of oil changes.
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QUOTE:...""It`s all gone. Forever. The future,as we know, for general purpose (city) cars are small (and smaller) more and more powerful per litre petrol engines.""
I disagree. Diesel engines have won LeMans for the last few years, all heavy lorries and buses have been diesel powered for decades. The future looks to be increasingly diesel, with the technical problems of current designs being solved within the bounds of diesel technology.
However, the future for small city cars is likely to be battery electric. I'm astonished by the pace of the 'dash for electric' and also the enthusiasm with which it's been embraced by the motoring press.
Edited by Sofa Spud on 12/08/2009 at 13:38
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"However, the future for small city cars is likely to be battery electric. I'm astonished by the pace of the 'dash for electric' and also the enthusiasm with which it's been embraced by the motoring press. "
Yeh, shame no one can buy one yet (unless anyone wants one of those G-Wiz death traps) !
Even Smart have one just coming out on trial, but again no one can buy one yet.
lots of car manufacturers have been testing these cars for well over 5 years now and yet they are still not available to buy, why ?
As for small petrol powered city cars, they will always do well.
Diesel engines do not scale so well at smaller capacities (take the C1 for example diesel vs petrol) so diesel engines are actually less efficient.
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Funnily enough, I had a conversation with my trusted indie car mechanic yesterday along these lines.
As some of you know, I love my very reliable 306 HDi - now on over 112,000 miles and looking and feeling the same as when I bought it with 30,000 or so on the clock. I asked him what I was going to replace the 306 with when the time came.
"For a start, you don't have to worry about replacing it for a long time - these cars will reliably cover huge mileages. If you were replacing it now, do not get a current model diesel - too complicated, too costly, too unreliable."
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Re electric city cars again.....
This one, the Nissan Leaf, will be going into production fairly soon;
blogs.thetimes.co.za/wheeldeal/files/2009/08/nissa...g
QUOTE:...""Diesel engines do not scale so well at smaller capacities""
I thought the diesel Smart does over 80 mpg compared to about 55 for the petrol one.
VW Polos 1.4 TDIs can get 65+ mpg (I've been researching these as I might be buying one)
Edited by Sofa Spud on 12/08/2009 at 14:39
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Reminds me of luddites complaining about the demise of carbs and points.
My chain driven CR diesel is great.
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>>lots of car manufacturers have been testing these cars for well over 5 years now and yet they are still not available to buy, why ?
Petrol and diesel engines have had a lot of development time, money, and effort poured into them over the last 100 years or so. An electric car, to compete, must be comparable, at least in broad terms, with these highly developed powertrains.
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>>lots of car manufacturers have been testing these cars for well over 5 years now and yet they are still not available to buy, why ?
Well they are of course, but they can't work out a good or cost-effective way of quickly charging the battereis. I don't think it's a question of basic engine/gearbox or development at all - after all, electric cars have been around just as long. Battery, battery, battery.
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"For a start you don't have to worry about replacing it for a long time - these cars will reliably cover huge mileages. If you were replacing it now do not get a current model diesel - too complicated too costly too unreliable."
Has to be said though that any well-sorted engine will run for an awful lot longer than 100K. My Nissan petrol lump is on 250K without rebuild and is still as sweet as a nut, pulls like a train, does not burn/leak oil and is a damned sight more refined than a XUD!
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The future's neither diesel nor petrol. Our fast disappearing reserves of oil should be used for lubrication and producing raw materials for manufacturing - not burning.
That said, I'll stick with diesels a while longer. I like their lazy, muscular performance and economy; they do the biz without making a high-revving fuss. These new small capacity, high output petrol engines are getting pretty good though, even if the means of acheiving it involves technology as complex (and as liable to failure in the long term?) as a common rail diesel.
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One fator is that while we rely on geological mineral oil for making diesel and petrol fuel, the production cracking process, I believe, yields these substances in fixed proportions. So that with the increasing number of diesel cars there will probably be a surplus of petrol produced, which has to be used for something. So I imagine that petrol will come down in price if there's a big surplus, ensuring that the market for petrol cars doesn't wither away completely. This is a reverse of the situation that led to the early adoption of diesels in commercial vehicles from the 1930's on - when diesel was a cheap by-product of the petroleum industry looking for a use.
Edited by Sofa Spud on 12/08/2009 at 16:41
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I drove an old 1994 306 XTdT the other day with the turbo XUD under the bonnet. This one had covered 194,000 miles.
This is still a nice engine, even by modern standards. Smooth, fairly lively and reasonably quiet above tickover. Feels horribly unresponsive and "laggy" compared to a modern unit, but really not the massive step back I was expecting, and it's amazing how quickly you adjust your driving to compensate for the response issues.
Some of the modern common rail stuff blows me away though. The BMW 2.0d for its guts, the Renault 1.9 dCi for its sheer composure and refinement and the Mercedes 320 CDi V6 for it's "WOW". All much better than what went before. Until they go wrong of course.
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Some of the modern common rail stuff blows me away though.
Is that when the turbo's go bang?
or the DPF?
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185 BHP, 300-odd lb-fl torque, 0-60 in sub 8 seconds, 140-odd-mph top speed.... Yep, I really hate modern diesels..... I was thinking that just the other day as I overtook my neighbour in his Pork-Poxster which was being driven flat out!
I especially hate the 60+ mpg if driven like miss daisy and 50+mpg if driven "normally".
(having said that, I'm fortunate enough for it to be a company car thats changed every 3 years and don't have to pay any repair costs!).
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I think in ten years time we will see more XUDs in 25 year old 306s than these modern over complex diesels. Its why I just would not touch one.
In 10 years time you will see more 25 year old CARS that 10 year old ones....
Mark my words - cars over 8 years old will not be worth fixing, thats if you can get the bits.
LED lights, where you replace the unit instead of one bulb....
DPF, nuff said
turbos... too expensive to replace
ECUs.... ditto
sensors.(any of many) upwards of £120 each today, how much when not a common seller?
I could go on all night....
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Don't agree with you, Swiss:
turbos... too expensive to replace
They are generally very long lived and can be reconditioned when they wear out or fail.
ECUs.... ditto
ECUs are repairable and there are companies specialised in doing just that. I read an interview with the CEO of such a company in a Classic Car mag who reckoned over 60% of the ECUs sent in for repair were actually ok. The fault was most likely in the wiring.
sensors.(any of many) upwards of £120 each today how much when not a common seller?
Lots of sensors can be reconditioned.
LED lights where you replace the unit instead of one bulb....
This argument was used when HID lights first appeared. Replacement HID discharge tubes are now actually very cheap. No reason this shouldn't happen to LEDs.
DPF nuff said
You might have me there!
Generally though, if there is a demand for stuff to be repaired or reconditioned, a market will appear to supply that demand.
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>> turbos... too expensive to replace They are generally very long lived and can be reconditioned when they wear out or fail.
We sell bucket loads!
>> ECUs.... ditto ECUs are repairable
Ok.. but many are 'coded' by the manufacturer and the coding in 10 years will be expensive/impossible
Lots of sensors can be reconditioned.
really? how do you recondition a Hall sensor, or a MAF?
This argument was used when HID lights first appeared. Replacement HID discharge tubes are now actually very cheap. No reason this shouldn't happen to LEDs.
£100 cheap?
What I mean is where the LED is moulded into the holder, and not easily accessible.
Now, the the holders were generic Id agree with you......
Generally though if there is a demand for stuff to be repaired or reconditioned a market will appear to supply that demand.
That is also my point, WILL there be enough demand, allowing for the amount of differing parts?
lamps seem to be changing with every model update now, and as for software updates in ECU's.....
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Inclined to agree with Oily here, i'd be very reluctant to buy a new Diesel with DPF or DMF or one that needs liquid gold adding to maintain emissions.
A scroll through our own technical questions puts the wind up me.
I'm very surprised at OR's attitiude to Kia and Hyundai, seeing as one of the best the Ceed is made virtually next door to Fiats in Eastern Europe.
Can i ask why the unusually adamant stance Oily?
The warranty's on offer from those makers would tempt me away from the competition in eurobox territory, bought sensibly and maintained well i would imagine a good long life from either one of them.
My own chugchug Diesel ownership stared with Cavalier2, Golf, Granada and the last one i bought was my only new vehicle namely Hilux 2 years ago.
The Hilux is hardly old school, but has no DPF and is a proper auto, only time will tell if this is going to last, we intend to run it till it's scrap or we peg whichever comes first, i'll keep you posted.
I have had engine problems with my chugchugs or rather i bought a couple of them very cheaply because of those problems...my Golf had a burnt piston which i changed and was fine and dandy after, very high miles though.
The Granada had been a very neglected minicab (no oil servicing to speak of...idiot) and was 2 years old 80K miles and engine worn out...i did full rebuild, rebore, pistons new shells...crank fine, and that was a lovely engine afterwards for many years, 2.5 N/A Pug lump from the 505.
Fuel system wise have not had a problem...yet, those old school mechanical pumps and injectors were good if given a fighting chance by having some maintenance.
Another nail in the modern Diesels coffin is the turbo...modern ones seem so fragile, never used to hear of Diesel turbo's going pop until the last 10 years or so.
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"Can i ask why the unusually adamant stance Oily?"
Just a joke GB ;-)
(as we might have responded in the playground..i`m still there - sorry)
;-)
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My experience with high intensity LEDs has shown that if one is likely to fail, it will do so early in its life. Otherwise, they will run almost indefinitely.
Our new kitchen has nearly 1000 high intensity surface mount LEDs in it - to date not a single one has failed.
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Our new kitchen has nearly 1000 high intensity surface mount LEDs in it - to date not a single one has failed.
can ya cook on it?
MD
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>> Our new kitchen has nearly 1000 high intensity surface mount LEDs in it - to >> date not a single one has failed. >> can ya cook on it? MD
Damn straight. The LEDs drag the AGA into the 21st century, although since it's now got an electronic thermostat I think we might have the world's first digital AGA. Oh, and there's an induction hob as well. ;-)
www.oznium.com/led-ribbon
The ribbon LEDs are under all the cupboards to light up the worktop, and inside all the cupboard doors. The main lighting are 12V LED replacements for your bog standard halogen lights, and they have an array of 24 white LEDs inside each lamp.
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Our new kitchen has nearly 1000 high intensity surface mount LEDs in it - to date not a single one has failed.
When does DJ Spooney and the Go Go girls open it? ACEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED
Edited by Altea Ego on 13/08/2009 at 01:37
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I'm very surprised at OR's attitiude to Kia and Hyundai seeing as one of the best the Ceed is made virtually next door to Fiats in Eastern Europe. Can i ask why the unusually adamant stance Oily?
You hear of remarkably few problems with the engines on these (at least with the newer ones -- I realise that the VM unit fitted to the Sedona was a dreadful heap of junk on a par with the worst of Nissan/Renault's efforts c.2002). There is a taxi firm in my local area who has used diesel Hyundai Accents and Elantras and all have run to around 200K miles before being retired, mainly due to the cars becoming tired rather than any faults with the mechanicals), and the newer Cee'd/i30 diesels seem similarly trouble-free.
As the "sensible" option, as diesels tend to be, they seem as good as anything out there. I'd have one if I found one cheap enough -- although if they're all going through the minicab circuit then I think I'll pass ;)
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So all these Citroens with 200K miles on HDI engines and Toyotas with 150K miles d4d engines are lucky according to this thread?
Edited by madf on 13/08/2009 at 10:15
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So all these Citroens with 200K miles on HDI engines and Toyotas with 150K miles d4d engines are lucky according to this thread?
You're wasting your breath on here with talk like that. Didn't you know all modern diesels are the spawn of the devil and a four figure repair bill just waiting to happen? ;-)
The various 200k+ Mondeo TDCi / Mercedes CDi / Vauxhall CDTi taxis I've been in recently were all still rattling along happily. Our company runs Renault and GM diesels up to 150k regularly without incident.
Yes the first major fault might write the thing off, but I have yet to be convinced that such a fault is actually likely to occur in the first place.
Edited by DP on 13/08/2009 at 12:50
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Yes the first major fault might write the thing off
It's the digital/binary age: on or off, it works or it doesn't.
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